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Originally Posted by paraclete

Smoothy, you have a strange dichotomy over there, everyone expects the President to act, but without the states he is powerless and no red state is going to give him power. Then in international affairs everyone expects the President to act but he is a prisioner of congress. What was it you expected Hilliary to do? Send a task group to the Libya coast and bomb the crap out of them? If memory serves me correctly that is how you got into the situation in the first place, but she couldn't do that. If you would stop stuffing about in covert affairs in other nations you wouldn't have these problems and you want her charged with what, doing her job? She was not in charge of the CIA, NSA or the military. You want her charged with telling lies to the media, I thought telling lies was a way of life in Washington. If you think anyone of us believes anything that comes out of the US you are mistaken

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All she had to do was her job... but she didn't. She spend weeks telling Lies about what actually happened. THen she has the audacity to say... "what difference does it make". Tell that to the families of those that died.

They had rapid response teams ready to go... several Military commanders had their military careers ruined because they wanted to go and were upset they were given stand down orders. So Clete... there are a lot of levels everything about this stunk.

Trying to do ANYTHING to help... even if it fails... is far better than sitting back and letting it happen.

This is ALL about Democrats and the current administration covering their butts and covering everything up. For purely political reasons.


If a gang of guys decided to rape that cute girl down the street... and you pulled up a chair and a beer and set down and watched and did nothing... would get you jail time here. This was the same. State Dept in DC knew what was happening when it happened... they have feeds from EVERY embassy. ANyone that claims they didn't know until AFTER is a flat out liar.

I've actually been in the center where they monitor this... and I put in some of the infrastructure for it.

Smoothy, knowing something is happening thousands of miles away and doing something about it are two different things. It didn't happen just down the street, any response even one as close as Italy is going to arrive too late. You cannot just march into a soveriegn nation even one in tirmoil without consequences. I believe your military has something called the rules of engagement, I don't know how this situation fits but I doubt unilateral action is authorised. What happened in Benghazi was the result of a covert action and a specific terrorist targeting. Hilliary resigned or was removed as Secretary of State, I think we can all read between the lines. That she isn't prepared to call quits to politics is the problem we have

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Smoothy, knowing something is happening thousands of miles away and doing something about it are two different things. It didn't happen just down the street, any response even one as close as Italy is going to arrive too late. You cannot just march into a soveriegn nation even one in tirmoil without consequences. I believe your military has something called the rules of engagement, I don't know how this situation fits but I doubt unilateral action is authorised. What happened in Benghazi was the result of a covert action and a specific terrorist targeting. Hilliary resigned or was removed as Secretary of State, I think we can all read between the lines. That she isn't prepared to call quits to politics is the problem we have

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If you know you should do something... they knew and they refused to do anything.. in fact they went so far as firing Military officers that questioned WHY they were being ordered to stand down. The event took over 4 hours.. they could have had people on the ground in 45 minutes.

That's why there is such an issue. We had Rapid reaction forces in place that close. While I wasn't on THAT base over there...I was on one of the others a little too far away for going there in a hurry for a significant period of time. And was familiar with all the others in the region that fell under our umbrella.

And If any of us through our own gross negligence had even ONE person die... we would likely have been on trial for it. And I know for a fact it happens even more often in Europe than the USA. But a "Clinton" is special... specifically someone with a long criminal history that's been covered up time and time again by the DNC political operatives.

Heck... the argument can even be made of RICO act charges. Organized crime members have been tried and jailed under that act with far less proof to go on. Shows just how corrupt the political system is. Not just here but everywhere.

Yes you're right the system is corrupt. Personally I don't know why anyone would want to be part of the system but I expect there are rewards that are not immediately apparent. Benghazi is not going to be laid to rest while ever Hilliary is on stage even though the ultimate responsibility is Obama's. You and I might think a boots an all approach is possible but it very seldom is, you weren't facing the Barbary pirates but someone who wanted you to involve yourself

Well... it might or might not have saved all four lives... but doing nothing certainly cost them.

If not for the fact we actually had people where we did BECAUSE of Qaddafi... that COULD have actually been boots on ground in 45 minutes in Beghazi... it might have been a moot issue.

Like a fire Crew sitting at a burning house hoses out and ready to go... doing nothing but smoking a cigarette saying "What difference does it make" while letting the house burn down.

Bottom line, we await the facts that the other 8 investigations missed. Then it will be another official waste of time by the repubs... and Hillary is the next PREZ!

Look it's the grassy knoll all over again, great conjecture and furore. What would have happened if an american expeditionary force had landed in Benghazi? Do you think it would be just like Abbottabad, in and out cleanly without a fight?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Bottom line, we await the facts that the other 8 investigations missed. Then it will be another official waste of time by the repubs... and Hillary is the next PREZ!

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She needs to be in jail... Not in ANY political office. She is a drunken idiot that deserves to be doing time.

In that respect she probably needs to join the club, if all the people who should be prosecuted were, you couldn't find enough room in the courts and the jails and you already have more in the jails than anyone else. Might be time to establish a Gulag in Alaska

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Originally Posted by paraclete

In that respect she probably needs to join the club, if all the people who should be prosecuted were, you couldn't find enough room in the courts and the jails and you already have more in the jails than anyone else. Might be time to establish a Gulag in Alaska

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Alaska is too nice a place. We need to send them someplace like Nigeria.

Who pays for that?

One way costs via Old freighter to Nigeria is a lot cheaper than giving them handouts at taxpayer expense. It would pay for itself in the first month or two. I really don't think they would last too long over there with all their entitlement mentality and everything.

Why do you want to inflict Nigeria, it has enough problems, anyway a solution like that was tried, called Liberia and that ended badly. There is a certain thinking that needs to change, isolating people doesn't work, it is a short term solution. Your country is full of people who came from somewhereelse that you don't want, seems to me you need to put your energies into creating prosperity somewhereelse, It is hard to focus on fixing your problems and fixing someoneelse's at the same time unless the objectives converge. Want to solve unemployment, create it some place else, perhaps in one of those places your government dispises like Cuba, Venezuela or some central american failed economy. Don't export your jobs to China, export them to south america

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Why do you want to inflict Nigeria, it has enough problems, anyway a solution like that was tried, called Liberia and that ended badly. There is a certain thinking that needs to change, isolating people doesn't work, it is a short term solution. Your country is full of people who came from somewhereelse that you don't want, seems to me you need to put your energies into creating prosperity somewhereelse, It is hard to focus on fixing your problems and fixing someoneelse's at the same time unless the objectives converge. Want to solve unemployment, create it some place else, perhaps in one of those places your government dispises like Cuba, Venezuela or some central american failed economy. Don't export your jobs to China, export them to south america

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We've actually tried to export them to South America... Hasn't worked out too well in most cases (disastrous might be a good description)... Too much corruption.. too little education... and the work ethic... on average well, that's pretty bad. Everyone motivated enough to work as already left.

Nigeria's a mess... can't make it any worse... but it could be any number of other places around there.

Problem with Cuba... too easy to sneak back in.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

We've actually tried to export them to South America... Hasn't worked out too well in most cases (disastrous might be a good description)... Too much corruption.. too little education... and the work ethic... on average well, that's pretty bad. Everyone motivated enough to work as already left.

Nigeria's a mess... can't make it any worse... but it could be any number of other places around there.

Problem with Cuba... too easy to sneak back in.

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If they had prosperity in Cuba they wouldn't want to sneak back in, their health system alone would be incentive to stay

Your idea of exporting jobs to latin america is establish factories over the border in mexico and then you say it doesn't work, you have fixed ideas, you just don't think out of the box

This idea of the work ethic has to go, employ them on piece rates and let them do as much or as little as they want, besides some of these places are tropical so the working day has to be viewed with a different perspective. These slave labour ideas, toiling from dusk to dawn have to go, very unamerican I know

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Originally Posted by paraclete

If they had prosperity in Cuba they wouldn't want to sneak back in, their health system alone would be incentive to stay

Your idea of exporting jobs to latin america is establish factories over the border in mexico and then you say it doesn't work, you have fixed ideas, you just don't think out of the box

This idea of the work ethic has to go, employ them on piece rates and let them do as much or as little as they want, besides some of these places are tropical so the working day has to be viewed with a different perspective. These slave labour ideas, toiling from dusk to dawn have to go, very unamerican I know

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I work with many of these countries on a daily basis... its a struggle to get some of them to do anything today much less now, Tomorrows the best to hope for and they would make it next week if they could get away with it. I used to work in manufacturing once upon a time after I graduated college... I know what it was like... and slave labor wasn't it. But income potential there did have its limits so I moved on to other things.

I know the idea of time zones and other priorities is a difficult concept for americans who think in terms of urgent and instant. Organisations also have principles of being consultative

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Originally Posted by paraclete

I know the idea of time zones and other priorities is a difficult concept for americans who think in terms of urgent and instant. Organisations also have principles of being consultative

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The work I do is global... And UTC is the time zone everyone works from. Though every so often someone tosses out a India Standard Time, Sao Paolo Time, Korea time, Guam Time etc, particularly when its in China or Russia with the time zones they have... then the head scratching starts to figure out how many hours ahead of or behind UTC that really is. Most of the time the people with the rush aren't even in the USA

I'm not referring to that, I can't even ring Perth at 9.00am EST and expect to find anyone in the office or try to speak to someone in the US earlier than 5.00 PM EST

If you think we are bad there... the Koreans make us look laid back. Everything for them is right now or they want it yesterday. VERY aggressive business people. But then their culture of serious competition even in schools and education feeds that.