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Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

no ;the closer to liberty . I reject the left right axis in the doctrination.The left drew it. Socialism is socialism and it doesn't matter a bit if it's national socialism or international socialism . I've yet to see a Communist state that did not adopt the exact same methods of tyranical control that the Nazis used. It really is a distinction without a difference and they are both on the same side of the spectrum I recognize Tyranny on one side and Liberty on the other .

Tom, what Ex is pointing out is that the above statement is in conflict with this statement:

"Excessive government control is the signature of both ends of the classical political spectrum..and on either end of the classical political spectrum is socialist models."

Both can't be correct at the same time.

You say that you reject the classical model yet you keep using it to demonstrate the conceptual analysis . Again, you can't have both at the same time.

It is probably a fair question to ask if you actually do reject the classical model? If so then it will probably save you from dragging it out yet again in 12 months time.

And please don't try and tell me that, "I reject the left right axis in the doctrination " is evidence of your rejection. It is a rejection of how the concepts are placed on the axis, not a rejection of the axis itself.

Tut

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

That should be obvious, but they think trying to protect an unborn child is trampling on liberty beyond measure as opposed to forced mandates on the church in violation of the first amendment, forced purchasing of health insurance, banning Cokes and Happy Meals, income redistribution...

Well, no it is not obvious when Tom posts conflicting accounts.

Tut

I couldn't care less about a spectrum . What I reject is this indoctrination that conservatism is fascism light. I'll bring us right back to the beginning . Socialism both international and national are virtually one in the same . It is closer to the model that the progressives want with it's strong central control and concentration of government power over virtually everything including the economy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

It is closer to the model that the progressives want with it's strong central control and concentration of govenment power over virtually everything including the economy.

Hello again, tom:

Every once in a while you and TUT say something that I can sink my teeth into...

In terms of the model that conservatives want, YOU want a strong central government TOO, as long as it's enforcing the mandates YOU like.. For example, you're VERY happy with the HUGE and POWERFUL federal agency known as the NSA who's reading your email and listening to your phone calls.. You're HAPPY with the HUGE and POWERFUL DEA who's job it is to promote SOCIAL change... You're happy with a HUGE and POWERFUL federal BORDER control agents who can STOP and ask for your papers ANYWHERE INSIDE these great United States... You'd like a HUGE and POWERFUL federal agency who's job would be to make sure EVERY pregnancy in the country ends the way YOU want it to. You're happy with a HUGE military... Apparently, you're happy with a HUGE and POWERFUL federal incarceration industry...

Soooo, I'm not buying your small limited government model... Not at all.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

. Yes I see one extreme end as totalitarianism ,and the other end as liberty ;and yes I see Conservatism as a pilosophy closer to liberty than progressivism .

Conservatism isn't liberty Tom it wants to stop progress and hold doggedly to its view of the world allowing no one the liberty to be themselves and socialism doesn't get the job done either.

On one end of the spectrum you have at best, benevolient dictatorship, monarchy and imperialism and on the other malevolient dictatorship. The great difficulty is that when you reach this stage it is difficult to tell one from the other and the only thing that will distinguish them is state ownership of property and the means of production. I would have thought that in your nation you would have learned where the excesses of conservatism lead and seek to avoid that path

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUT317

Well, no it is not obvious when Tom posts conflicting accounts.

Tut

I don't know about conflicting accounts, I'm referring to present reality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I don't know about conflicting accounts, I'm referring to present reality.

Ok then, but don't mention 'political spectrum'. I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it.

There are only two colours over there in the political spectrum red and blue, over here we have three, red, blue and green, whilst in some places there is only one which might be red or green. I'm thinking that you are slowly introducing purple into your line up