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  • Nov 11, 2013, 01:32 PM
    speechlesstx
    Yeah, well make sense with it. Meanwhile, Obama's home town paper and cheerleader dumped on him pretty good - and in the process sounded much like me.

    Quote:

    President Barack Obama's signature accomplishment is teetering. The Obamacare website is a national punch line. Millions of Americans, repeatedly reassured by Obama that they could keep their doctors and health plans, are discovering that they can't. Their insurance policies are being canceled. The price of new coverage is substantially higher. The new coverage may force them to choose new doctors. And the law says they have to buy insurance or pay a fine.

    People are deeply concerned, and for good reason. This is, as Democratic Sen. Max Baucus famously predicted seven months ago, a "train wreck."

    ...

    Much of the focus in Washington has been on the political consequences of the Obamacare disaster, whether Democrats are vulnerable and Republicans can take advantage.

    No surprise there. Democratic leaders forced the law through Congress without a single Republican vote. The architects of Obamacare brushed aside sharp warnings from tech wizards that the computer system wasn't tested and ready. They piled hundreds of pages of last-minute regulations on insurers. They forced insurers to cancel policies by the thousands because those policies fell short of the soup-to-nuts coverage required by the law.

    The American public is having a credibility-shattering debate about the president: Did he not bother to learn the details of the law before he told us we could keep our doctors and our insurance, or did he know the truth and flat-out lie?

    Political consequences from the early failure of Obamacare are likely. But far more important are the personal consequences for American consumers.

    There are early indications that many young and healthy people are opting not to buy insurance. There are two likely reasons: It's nearly impossible for anyone to sign up, and the cost is prohibitive for people who have modest incomes but don't qualify for subsidies.

    If this continues, you'll hear the phrase "death spiral" more and more. That's the term insurance execs use to describe what will happen if young and relatively healthy people don't pay into the system while older people with greater health care needs sign up. If that happens, increased costs will vastly outstrip increased revenues, putting enormous financial pressure on the whole scheme.
    ...

    An essential first step: Accept that government doesn't know what's best for everyone. That people can decide what coverage they need and can afford. A strong marketplace offers choices for every wallet. Obamacare's rules curtail those choices. Why, for instance, should only people under age 30 be eligible to purchase lower-cost "catastrophic" insurance? Pinching Americans' coverage choices is one big reason this law doesn't work.

    Republicans will have to be constructive. They've talked "repeal and replace," but the public has no idea what they would offer as a replacement.

    Democrats will have to avoid being defensive. It was a mistake to attempt such a massive government intrusion on a marketplace and a mistake to do so without anything close to a public consensus.
    Damn that all sounds familiar.
  • Nov 11, 2013, 01:57 PM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Republicans will have to be constructive. They've talked "repeal and replace," but the public has no idea what they would offer as a replacement.
    SOS as before more than likely. Quoting a philandering drunk hurts your credibility. So what if he is a democratic senator.
  • Nov 11, 2013, 02:09 PM
    speechlesstx
    And that's all you got out of that?
  • Nov 11, 2013, 02:52 PM
    tomder55
    if the public has no idea what the Republicans would offer as replacement it's because they haven't paid attention ,and idiots like those in the Chi-town Rag editorial board have not offered to examine them or dismissed them without serious consideration.
  • Nov 11, 2013, 03:01 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    if the public has no idea what the Republicans would offer as replacement it's because they haven't paid attention ,and idiots like those in the Chi-town Rag editorial board have not offered to examine them or dismissed them without serious consideration.

    Well hey, it took them this long to look into what the emperor has been saying for all these years.
  • Nov 11, 2013, 03:03 PM
    excon
    Hello again, tom:
    Quote:

    if the public has no idea what the Republicans would offer as replacement it's because they haven't paid attention
    I pay attention.. Lemme see if I can name 'em. Tort reform, buying insurance across state lines, health savings accounts, and.. and.....

    Am I forgetting something?

    excon
  • Nov 11, 2013, 03:23 PM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    if the public has no idea what the Republicans would offer as replacement it's because they haven't paid attention ,and idiots like those in the Chi-town Rag editorial board have not offered to examine them or dismissed them without serious consideration.

    What if we read it and rejected it after serious consideration? Like your jobs plan, keep the Bush tax cuts and add more cuts to them, and let the money trickle down to everyone else.
  • Nov 11, 2013, 03:35 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, tom:
    I pay attention.. Lemme see if I can name 'em. Tort reform, buying insurance across state lines, health savings accounts, and.. and.....

    Am I forgetting something?

    excon

    yup those were just some of the things I mentioned
  • Nov 11, 2013, 03:48 PM
    tomder55
    Here are a few that was introduced before Obamacare :
    10 Steps to Transform Health Care - Issue Statements - United States Senator Mike Enzi
    Dr. Coburn, colleagues introduce "Every American Insured Health Act" - Press Releases - Tom Coburn, M.D., United States Senator from Oklahoma
    Fixed Tax Credits | U.S. Health Policy Gateway
    Healthy Americans Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/...6-fc195a833884
    Individual Pay or Play | U.S. Health Policy Gateway
    http://tomprice.house.gov/sites/tomp...%20Section.pdf
    Health Status Insurance | U.S. Health Policy Gateway
    there are others ,but why should I post any more ? You won't read these and will dismiss them out of hand because they don't offer nanny state universal insurance .
  • Nov 11, 2013, 04:13 PM
    talaniman
    Most of what I read is in the ACA, so some serious consideration was made of republican proposals. The problem is once you got your amendments you still voted no.

    Republican Ideas Included in the President's Proposal | The White House

    Quote:

    Throughout the debate on health insurance reform, Republican concepts and proposals have been included in legislation. In fact, hundreds of Republican amendments were adopted during the committee mark-up process. As a result, both the Senate and the House passed key Republican proposals that are incorporated into the President's Proposal.
    Be sure to read the whole thing.
  • Nov 12, 2013, 03:22 AM
    Tuttyd
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cdad View Post
    Tired horses or no horses is sure a funny way of putting it when the facts show that not only are there no horses to do anything this system as it has been created (Obamacare) ends up pulling the horses along with everything else.

    Lets not forget that this system was designed by the very system it was suppose to regulate and it represents a huge boon for insurance companies as well as more levels for the government to be directly involved in your life by way of law.

    I guess the reason I chose this analogy was because of the expectation that your health care system would have evolved over time to something that is equitable, or something that is a reasonable approximation.It would also seem to me that the drastic measures being implemented at the moment are a direct result of inequality

    edit.
  • Nov 12, 2013, 04:55 AM
    Reinvented25
    My insurance premiums went down $23.92 for the year (about a buck a pay check).

    My main OTC supplements are covered 100% instead of 0%, saving me around $60/month.

    I now have the option to get rid of deductibles in exchange for 0% coverage out of network.

    Seems Obamacare isn't hurting everyone. I find it funny that I just so happen to work for a rather liberal tech company whose CEO supported Barack.

    Those of you getting hurt by your employer... Which way did your CEO/whatever vote in 2008?
  • Nov 12, 2013, 08:30 AM
    tomder55
    removed comment
  • Nov 12, 2013, 08:50 AM
    J_9
    Quote:

    My insurance premiums went down $23.92 for the year (about a buck a pay check).

    My main OTC supplements are covered 100% instead of 0%, saving me around $60/month.

    I now have the option to get rid of deductibles in exchange for 0% coverage out of network.

    Seems Obamacare isn't hurting everyone. I find it funny that I just so happen to work for a rather liberal tech company whose CEO supported Barack.

    Those of you getting hurt by your employer... Which way did your CEO/whatever vote in 2008?
    I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. So far from the truth.
  • Nov 12, 2013, 08:51 AM
    speechlesstx
    Mine is changing, I have no details on the changes but my bet is it's not going to be good.
  • Nov 12, 2013, 09:04 AM
    J_9
    No, it's not going to be good. If yours is anything like mine your deductibles will increase, your premiums will increase and your coverage will decrease.
  • Nov 12, 2013, 09:05 AM
    excon
    Hello J:
    Quote:

    I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. So far from the truth.
    So, you don't think ANYBODY is saving money on the exchanges????

    Well, of course they are. You shouldn't BELIEVE everything you hear from Hannity...
    Quote:

    As Hannity called on each of them, the guests recounted their “Obamacare” horror stories: canceled policies, premium hikes, restrictions on the freedom to see a doctor of their choice, financial burdens upon their small businesses and so on.

    “These are the stories that the media refuses to cover,” Hannity interjected.

    But none of it smelled right to me. Nothing these folks were saying jibed with the basic facts of the Affordable Care Act as I understand them. I understand them fairly well; I have worked as a senior adviser to a governor and helped him deal with the new federal rules.

    I decided to hit the pavement. I tracked down Hannity’s guests, one by one, and did my own telephone interviews with them.

    First I spoke with Paul Cox of Leicester, N.C. He and his wife Michelle had lamented to Hannity that because of Obamacare, they can’t grow their construction business and they have kept their employees below a certain number of hours, so that they are part-timers.

    Obamacare has no effect on businesses with 49 employees or less. But in our brief conversation on the phone, Paul revealed that he has only four employees. Why the cutback on his workforce? “Well,” he said, “I haven’t been forced to do so, it’s just that I’ve chosen to do so. I have to deal with increased costs.” What costs? And how, I asked him, is any of it due to Obamacare? There was a long pause, after which he said he’d call me back. He never did.

    There is only one Obamacare requirement that applies to a company of this size: workers must be notified of the existence of the “healthcare.gov” website, the insurance exchange. That’s all.

    Next I called Allison Denijs. She’d told Hannity that she pays over $13,000 a year in premiums. Like the other guests, she said she had recently gotten a letter from Blue Cross saying that her policy was being terminated and a new, ACA-compliant policy would take its place. She says this shows that Obama lied when he promised Americans that we could keep our existing policies.

    Allison’s husband left his job a few years ago, one with benefits at a big company, to start his own business. Since then they’ve been buying insurance on the open market, and are now paying around $1,100 a month for a policy with a $2,500 deductible per family member, with hefty annual premium hikes. One of their two children is not covered under the policy. She has a preexisting condition that would require purchasing additional coverage for $600 a month, which would bring the family’s grand total to around $20,000 a year.

    I asked Allison if she’d shopped on the exchange, to see what a plan might cost under the new law. She said she hadn’t done so because she’d heard the website was not working. Would she try it out when it’s up and running? Perhaps, she said. She told me she has long opposed Obamacare, and that the president should have focused on tort reform as a solution to bringing down the price of healthcare.

    I tried an experiment and shopped on the exchange for Allison and Kurt. Assuming they don’t smoke and have a household income too high to be eligible for subsidies, I found that they would be able to get a plan for around $7,600, which would include coverage for their uninsured daughter. This would be about a 60 percent reduction from what they would have to pay on the pre-Obamacare market.
    excon
  • Nov 12, 2013, 09:08 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Reinvented25 View Post
    My insurance premiums went down $23.92 for the year (about a buck a pay check).

    My main OTC supplements are covered 100% instead of 0%, saving me around $60/month.

    I now have the option to get rid of deductibles in exchange for 0% coverage out of network.

    Seems Obamacare isn't hurting everyone. I find it funny that I just so happen to work for a rather liberal tech company whose CEO supported Barack.

    Those of you getting hurt by your employer... Which way did your CEO/whatever vote in 2008?

    so in other words you work for a company that isn't affected because the employer mandate doesn't kick in this year .
  • Nov 12, 2013, 09:15 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by J_9 View Post
    No, it's not going to be good. If yours is anything like mine your deductibles will increase, your premiums will increase and your coverage will decrease.

    But, but, it will be more "comprehensive." I'll get free contraceptives.
  • Nov 12, 2013, 09:18 AM
    J_9
    Exy, I'm sorry, but I don't read your rhetoric. I believe in what I see firsthand. Your quotes and links don't do it for me. I live the life, I don't read the news. I don't have to. I live it. I see it. I experience it.

    I've given you some first hand knowledge, you can only give me what you see in the news. If you give me some first hand knowledge maybe you could change my mind.
  • Nov 12, 2013, 09:19 AM
    speechlesstx
    The regime is getting ready to lie to us again, does anyone see a pattern here yet?

    Quote:

    When the Obama administration releases health law enrollment figures later this week, though, it will use a more expansive definition. It will count people who have purchased a plan as well as those who have a plan sitting in their online shopping cart but have not yet paid.
    I have a couple of things in my Amazon shopping cart. Do they count that as a sale?
  • Nov 12, 2013, 10:20 AM
    talaniman
    It's a potential sale. And you know as well as I do that what's in your cart may get you discounts and free shipping as an inducement to buy. And that's a lousy analogy.

    Here's mine. 30 days after a government shutdown that failed to repeal, or delay it, you have shifted the hollering to the rollout that's barely a month old. You holler about the rain that's coming instead helping get the clothes off the line. I tell you the same thing my mom would have told me, "Shut the hell up, and get them clothes inside before it rains".

    If you spent as much time and energy helping and fixing as you do hollering, repealing, and delaying and spreading gloom, and doom until the next election, we could have gotten a comprehensive jobs bill, instead of 43 repeal votes and a shutdown. No good paying jobs is still the underlying problem to most of our issues as a nation.
  • Nov 12, 2013, 10:36 AM
    speechlesstx
    Wow, there is no deception too blatant, no scandal too obvious, no disaster too disastrous for you to take on the regime. Admit it Tal, that's bullsh*t. A "potential sale" is not an enrollee, period. I guarantee they don't count "potential" humans as people but they should because the baby is in the cart.
  • Nov 12, 2013, 11:09 AM
    talaniman
    Educate poor females as rich ones, and we take the baby out of the cart. Just seeing a doctor twice a year does that too. Too bad we need insurance to accomplish that goal.
  • Nov 12, 2013, 11:23 AM
    speechlesstx
    That was a total dodge.
  • Nov 12, 2013, 03:45 PM
    speechlesstx
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BY4DQ05IcAAZoEW.jpg
  • Nov 12, 2013, 04:52 PM
    aliseaodo
    I got a notice alerting me that on January 1st, 2014 my dental benefits will go down 20%...not 'go down' as in cost to me, but 'go down' as in I will have less dental benefits available to me and my dependents...not a good thing..
  • Nov 12, 2013, 05:58 PM
    speechlesstx
    Exactly.
  • Nov 13, 2013, 04:25 AM
    tomder55
    The emperor doesn't have to run again. But all the Dems are beginning to panic. I think within the week there will be enough support for one of the Repubic 'keep your insurance acts '.
    Dianne Feinstein joins push to keep health plans - Seung Min Kim - POLITICO.com

    More Than 1M Californians Notified Health Insurance Will Be Cancelled « CBS Sacramento
  • Nov 13, 2013, 06:04 AM
    speechlesstx
    That doesn't make sense, why would Dems panic when everyone is getting much better insurance for a lot more money?
  • Nov 13, 2013, 06:13 AM
    talaniman
    Boggles my mind that insurance companies would even offer the plans that they knew they would have to cancel in the first place. But a few red state dems is hardly a panic by the whole party.
  • Nov 13, 2013, 07:02 AM
    tomder55
    Feinstein is a blue state Dem?
  • Nov 13, 2013, 07:13 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Boggles my mind that insurance companies would even offer the plans that they knew they would have to cancel in the first place. But a few red state dems is hardly a panic by the whole party.

    Boggles my mind that you endorse the regime selling a lie.
  • Nov 13, 2013, 07:29 AM
    talaniman
    4 out of 51? Yeah that's a huge consensus and to be fair may grow, but a fix may be in the works for those by my estimate will be about 4 million who may end up adversely affected and many of those already have had their policies extended and that extension could well go further voluntarily by the companies themselves.

    So for some the changes in the new law will be delayed, just not to the extent republican will ever be happy with. But aren't you guys glad that its moving to be fixed? Naw, you still want to throw 30 million under the bus.
  • Nov 13, 2013, 07:36 AM
    speechlesstx
    If perhaps you went about it in a way that would have helped the uninsured without hosing the rest of us and with a little bipartisan effort we wouldn't be so pi$$ed, but what you gave us is an unmitigated disaster based on lies.

    Quote:

    Small Business and ObamaCare
    A new survey shows that employers will drop coverage and cut hours.

    Nov. 12, 2013 7:04 p.m. ET
    One of President Obama's proudest boasts about the Affordable Care Act is that it helps small business. The White House website says the health law "makes it easier for businesses to find better coverage options" and "stops insurance companies from taking advantage of you, giving the consumer and business owner more control and making health-care coverage more affordable." Small businesses aren't buying it.

    That's the finding of a Public Opinion Strategies survey of more than 400 business owners with between 40 and 500 employees conducted in September and October for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and International Franchise Association. Some 64% of small business franchise owners (such as owners of fast food and retail stores) believe the law will have a "negative impact" on their business, while only 5% expect a "positive impact." For non-franchise businesses the ratio was 53% negative and 12% positive. Only one in 12 agree with the President that the health-care law will "help" their business.

    Even more problematic is how businesses are already responding to the new law. The White House continues to deny any relationship between hiring and ObamaCare. The poll finds 27% of franchise businesses and 12% of non-franchises have already replaced full-time with part-time employees in anticipation of the law's employer mandate. ObamaCare defines a full-time employee as someone who works 30 hours or more a week.

    The survey also reveals that the "49er" effect is very real. These are businesses that will cap their full-time payroll workforce at 49 employees to avoid ObamaCare's insurance mandate for companies with more than 50 full-time equivalent workers. Of firms with between 40 and 70 employees, a little over half say they are likely to "make personnel decisions to keep" their "workforce below the threshold of 50 full-time employees and avoid the requirements and penalties associated with the new health care law."

    More than one in four businesses (28%) say that in 2015, when the employer mandate is scheduled to take full effect, it is "likely" they will drop their insurance coverage and pay the penalty of $2,000 a year per employee. These are the plans employers and employees were promised they would be able to keep.

    Opinion surveys are often unreliable predictors of how people will act in the future, but these findings do at least expose the widespread anxiety that businesses are feeling about ObamaCare's new costs. If the economy and business conditions improve and customer demand rises, employers may swallow these costs to expand their operations. But in an economy with nearly 20 million Americans out of work, discouraged from even looking for work or forced into part-time jobs, ObamaCare is making the search for employment all the more challenging.

    One fix that might mitigate some of these negative employment effects would be to pass a law proposed by Senators Joe Donnelly (D., Ind.) and Susan Collins (R., Maine) to change ObamaCare's definition of a full-time job to 40 from 30 hours a week. Better still would be for Congress to repeal the law and pass a business and worker-friendly health-care reform.
  • Nov 13, 2013, 09:07 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Opinion surveys are often unreliable predictors of how people will act in the future, but these findings do at least expose the widespread anxiety that businesses are feeling about ObamaCare's new costs. If the economy and business conditions improve and customer demand rises, employers may swallow these costs to expand their operations. But in an economy with nearly 20 million Americans out of work, discouraged from even looking for work or forced into part-time jobs, ObamaCare is making the search for employment all the more challenging.
    Business decisions based on feelings and not data are often severely flawed and as pointed out in your article, business is already skittish with the economy as it is. I don't believe downgrading the workers hours is the answer, and an upgrade would be better, and what's more telling is still the talk of repeal and never talk of upgrading to universal heath care for everyone no matter age or income, and would make all this hollering and fixing unnecessary.

    Funny how you guys take that option off the table and fall back on repeal, with no reforms. I am just glad some are finally proposing ideas to fix the glitches that comes up. When you do repeal it, how do you tell your mom or other elders they have to go back to the donut hole?

    Or 15 million people who are the working poor and cannot get coverage in their state, Texas being one example where one of every four people cannot get care even with the cut rate clinics you so proudly say is enough. Obviously they are NOT adequate enough, and neither is the efforts of charities which more and more have become for profit corporations.

    How you ignore those things is beyond me but not unexpected. And I hear the TParty wants to give the Atlanta Braves 450 million bucks for a new stadium that's smaller than the one they have already and is less than a decade old. Right wingers holler broke only when it suits them. Go ahead keep hollering for the needs of the few while you deny and lie about the needs of the many.
  • Nov 13, 2013, 09:14 AM
    speechlesstx
    Well that was totally predictable. Talk about ignoring the obvious...
  • Nov 13, 2013, 09:36 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    and what's more telling is still the talk of repeal and never talk of upgrading to universal heath care for everyone
    Yup I'll never talk about universal health care because that 's just a dog whistle for socialized ,top down ,state controlled ,and managed ,takeover of the health care industry .
  • Nov 13, 2013, 09:49 AM
    speechlesstx
    I'm for universal wealth care. Make it happen, Tal.
  • Nov 13, 2013, 10:20 AM
    talaniman
    Slowdown will ya! I am still trying to poke the rich guys in the a$$ with a sharp stick, and start circulating that money they STOLE back into the economy. Its not easy because you guys keep getting in the way. Its really hard to tell their a$$ from yours, the hollering sounds the same.

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