Hello again, S:

**greenie**

excon

Yup and the 9-11 families who's family members and friends were incinerated and who's ashes spread throughout the neighborhood are also bigotted and intolerant .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

yup and the 9-11 families who's family members and friends were incinerated and who's ashes spread throughout the neighborhood are also bigotted and intolerant .

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Hello again, tom:

What's YOUR excuse? You PRETEND to be a staunch supporter of the Constitution. You RAIL over original intent. You STAND for the First Amendment. You SUPPORT an individuals right to DO with his property as he chooses...

Unless it's a Muslim...

So, you are either full of sh*t about your support for the Constitution, or you're a bigot. Those are the only two conclusions you've left me with.

excon

Conclude what you will .

I already answered all your points in this OP.

To be brief... I can be completely in opposition to placing the Mosque where it is planned ;and still be a staunch supporter of the 1st Amendment and the Constitution. As I have noted frequently ;being opposed to building a Mosque there is not the same as saying they don't have a right to do so.

If they blame ALL Muslims for the attack--yes, they are.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

If they blame ALL Muslims for the attack--yes, they are.

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No one, except for maybe a few idiots, has ever blamed ALL Muslims for 9/11. Beginning with Bush himself who went out of his way to specifically blame only radical elements, to today, we have been careful to make the distinction. All this concern of blaming ALL Muslims is for the most part without merit.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

All this concern of blaming ALL Muslims is for the most part without merit.

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Your addition of the interrupter, "for the most part," says it all.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I can be completely in opposition to placing the Mosque where it is planned ;and still be a staunch supporter of the 1st Amendment and the Constitution.

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Hello again, tom:

You HAVE said that. And, I've said you can't have it both ways... You cannot support the Constitution, and at the same time oppose a citizen who is seeking HIS rights UNDER that very Constitution. They are INCOMPATIBLE beliefs. They are OPPOSED to each other. It's like being a little bit pregnant.

You SAY these belief's are not absolute, but if you're an American, and you understand where we came from, and WHY this country was founded in the first place, you'd believe it, ABSOLUTELY, HOOK, LINE and SINKER. This is AMERICA - the greatest country in the world.

Call me a sentimental American patriot. I can live with it.

excon

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Your addition of the interrupter, "for the most part," says it all.

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Bullsh*t. Show me on this site or anywhere else all of these people blaming all Muslims. I was clear and consistent that "except for maybe a few idiots" the concerns were "for the most part" without merit.

Good grief Wondergirl, that's acknowledging there is SOME concern, but the vast majority of us do not blame ALL of Islam so cut the crap and stop portraying that as being the case. That's what makes Muslims wonder how we could ever work together, the unwarranted accusation, not the facts.

So if my neighbor has the right to do something to his property; I should not have a voice in opposition ;or I should automatically and submissively approve the neighbor's plans regardless of how it affects me or my property ?
Nonsense !

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

No one, except for maybe a few idiots, has ever blamed ALL Muslims for 9/11. Beginning with Bush himself who went out of his way to specifically blame only radical elements, to today, we have been careful to make the distinction. All this concern of blaming ALL Muslims is for the most part without merit.

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So... if we (and I use "we" loosely, here) are not blaming ALL Muslims for 9/11, why is there a problem with American Muslims building a Mosque on American soil?

And I notice that no one TOUCHED the question of "if it were any OTHER place of worship, would this even be a problem?"

And really--there had to have been practicing Muslims working in the WTC buildings that died. I'm betting they were AMERICAN Muslims, too.

Is their loss any less tragic than any other religion's loss? Wouldn't it really be MORE tragic, because they were killed by hate-mongers of their own religion?

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Originally Posted by Synnen

So...if we (and I use "we" loosely, here) are not blaming ALL Muslims for 9/11, why is there a problem with American Muslims building a Mosque on American soil?

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Actually, I think that question has been answered ad nauseum, and again it's being framed wrong. We're not arguing that American Muslims can't build a mosque on American soil.

Like most everyone else INCLUDING those who oppose it, I've been clear that they have the right to build. I also have the right to oppose it at THAT particular location as it is inarguable that the attack was made in the name of Islam, not Christianity, and not exotic dancers. That doesn't make me wrong, intolerant, bigoted, hypocritical or anything else but an American exercising his right of free speech.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

No one, except for maybe a few idiots, has ever blamed ALL Muslims for 9/11. Beginning with Bush himself who went out of his way to specifically blame only radical elements, to today, we have been careful to make the distinction. All this concern of blaming ALL Muslims is for the most part without merit.

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Exactly... and the point is ALL MUSLIMS conversely are NOT innocent of even harboring sympathetic feelings for the Radicals. Given the numbers of Islamic people infesting the planet... these percentages are numerically quite large.

[Pew Poll on] How Muslims Think :: Daniel Pipes

And far from the "rare Handfull" claimed by those on the left.


With 1.5 BILLION followers...

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Every percent is 15 million people. Do the math for the Pew poll numbers.

That's not anyone's idea of "a handfull".

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Given the numbers of Islamic people infesting the planet

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Huh?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Huh?

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Pretty clear to anyone living under the oppression of Islam who are not followers of the moon god in any Islamic nation on the planet.

Okay, so...

Given the number of CHRISTIANS "infesting" the planet, at least SOME of them are guilty of "harboring sympathetic feelings" for the child molesting priests, too, right? I mean, given the percentages, there HAS to be!

Or better yet--considering the number of Christians out there, and the strange sects that come out and do horrible things---there were at least SOME "harboring sympathetic feelings" for the Texas polygamist compound raided in 2008, right?

Or--let's get more brutal here.

Christians are the greatest portion of the anti-abortion movement. How many deaths, bombings, assaults, fire, etc, have been perpetuated by CHRISTIANS against other humans in the name of their religion? And really--the list is pretty long going only back to 1990. Are you telling me that MOST Christians don't "harbor sympathetic feelings" that the anti-abortionists are doing the "right" thing and following their religion?

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Okay, so...

Given the number of CHRISTIANS "infesting" the planet, at least SOME of them are guilty of "harboring sympathetic feelings" for the child molesting priests, too, right? I mean, given the percentages, there HAS to be!

Or better yet--considering the number of Christians out there, and the strange sects that come out and do horrible things---there were at least SOME "harboring sympathetic feelings" for the Texas polygamist compound raided in 2008, right?

Or--let's get more brutal here.

Christians are the greatest portion of the anti-abortion movement. How many deaths, bombings, assaults, fire, etc, have been perpetuated by CHRISTIANS against other humans in the name of their religion? And really--the list is pretty long going only back to 1990. Are you telling me that MOST Christians don't "harbor sympathetic feelings" that the anti-abortionists are doing the "right" thing and following their religion?

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The anti-abortion movement kills far fewer human lives than the Pro-abortion movement does by a LARGE percentage and any given year or cumulatively.

Got any statistics to back that up?

After all, this discussion is about Muslims that are pro-terrorism.

And statistically far more Muslims are pro terrorist than inhabit many countries.

You can't produce statistics that show numbers of recognised polls that show Pro-child Molesters (much less the smaller number limited to Priests alone) to be anything similar in number.

Unlike Muslims who accept the radical ellement among them since they are taught to never betray a fellow muslim to a non-muslim (and it IS codified in their religion), there is no such parallel among christians.

Incidentally... when were the Salem Witch trials... what year is this now... WHen was the Spanish Inquisition... what year is it now.

And before anyone Brings up the Crusades... THAT was in Direct response to Islam taking historically CHristian lands, and killing or converting ALL of its inhabitants.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

The anti-abortion movement kills far fewer human lives than the Pro-abortion movement does by a LARGE percentage.

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Indeed .We are talking Uncle Joe numbers here. And if my neighbor had a right to build a Planned Parenthood clinic next door .I would do everything I could legally to prevent it despite the fact that they had a right to do it.

I actually don't know of any deaths, bombings, assaults, fire, etc, literally in the name of Christ in this country since 1990.

Incidentally... being Wicca... the Salem Witch trials I assume you are most pointed in commenting on. Being there has not been an ongoing rash of burnings at the stake during the interim period.

That was 1692 (Before the USA was the USA) that towns population was 550 people TOTAL then.

Salem Witch Trials

Hardly signifficant numbers.

More Islamic Terrorists have been killed in the last several months alone than the entire population of that town at the time... and of course... that 550 people includes children of all ages. Not sure how many of those Salem residents were infants or toddlers. Or if those stats are even known to my knowledge.