Unconventionnl or unconventional??? Kidding!
God's love is, in a sense, unconditional. His acceptance of us is not.
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Unconventionnl or unconventional??? Kidding!
God's love is, in a sense, unconditional. His acceptance of us is not.
un·con·ven·tion·al
ADJECTIVE
- not based on or conforming to what is generally done or believed:
"his unconventional approach to life"
SIMILAR:- unusual
- irregular
unorthodox
unfamiliar
uncommon
unwonted
rare
out of the ordinary
atypical
singular
distinctive
individual
individualistic
free-spirited
alternative
different
new
fresh
* Unlike any other god that has been or is being worshipped *
Really, Really? Who are you that I should listen to, rather than God?Quote:
Then the person needs to change his/her answer
You proclaim that the Word is dead (I'll use your own reasoning...If it isn't alive it's dead). You are welcome to blabber all you like. I am through entertaining your dribble... you're too smart for me.
WG says,What will it take for you to understand? You just don't get it.Quote:
"Yes, I have experienced that."
The only time Jesus ever spoke about God's love was when he was alone with his disciples. Yet here we are declaring "unconditional Love. Hey everybody, God loves you and he loves you unconditionally." Good Idea! Yes, everybody gets that (don't they?). They will surely understand God's love now. If you preach God's love to those who have never experienced "God's love"...you're wasting your breath! They will never understand, being that they have never experienced "God's Love." We seem to have summed up the Bible with one Verse that explains God's love perfectly. Now we have Homosexuals and other blatant sinners wanting, demanding that the Church accept them...because if God accepts them unconditionally, then the Church must accept them unconditionally too. Our understanding of God's love is askew. We can never understand God's love. it is so far beyond our understanding. God's love is all about..."Show me." It's a life. God Spoke it we are to live it.
We know your Idea of God's Love has gone Askew, Being that many of you believe a Loving God would never condemn his subjects. What do they know about God's love? God loves them enough to let them go...when they want nothing to do with him or his love. They seek death, God gives them what they desire...He's a good good God. God said; We are God's and we will die a human death. We are currently separated from God. Some people would have it no other way.
Ah, waltero, you hate the LGBTQ+ community. Now I understand!!!
God accepts you the way YOU are, doesn't He? Like that well-known hymn says, "Just as I am, without one plea...."
You're making things up again, otherwise known as lying.Quote:
You proclaim that the Word is dead (I'll use your own reasoning...If it isn't alive it's dead).
I cannot help a person who is given to lying and will not acknowledge his own mistakes.
Now that is an interesting comment. It's not correct, since the comment about the love of God spoken of by Christ in John 3 was directed to Nicodemus, not His disciples. Still, it's interesting that in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus never refers to God's love for people other than in Luke 11:42. However, God's love is a major theme of Romans, so unless we want to just ignore part of the NT, we must acknowledge (celebrate!!) God's love for man.Quote:
The only time Jesus ever taught about God's love was when he was alone with his disciples
Another interesting comment. It does illustrate the difference between God's love and God's acceptance. However, what difference is there between a man who has sex with other men and a man who routinely lies on an internet message board? And I say that with no meanness at all. It's just very worth considering.Quote:
Now we have Homosexuals and other blatant sinners wanting, demanding that the Church accept them...because if God can accept them unconditionally, then the Church must accept them.
No, he doesn't, but the rest of your statement explains the key element.Quote:
God accepts you the way YOU are, doesn't He?
You have, for whatever reason, left off the next words. "But that thy blood was shed for me." And there is the key for God's acceptance. The sinner who accepts the sacrifice of Christ has a great plea, but that, however, is very much conditional.Quote:
Like that well-known hymn says, "Just as I am, without one plea...."
Christ's blood was shed for me before I accepted Him as my Savior. He loved me even before I was born.
No. Mainly because I could never allow God to accept me the way I am. I love him and I want to be like him. He is my Father and I want everybody to know it!!! I can't accept myself the way I am. I trust God is transforming me into his likeness...that I like. I want to show my Dad that I love him, and I choose to go to him when he cries for me.Quote:
God accepts you the way YOU are, doesn't He?
You simply take the easy way out. I don't hate anybody. I love my Niece (which is now my nephew). I love my Brother and his male spouse. I do support them but I can never promote their way of life.Quote:
Ah, waltero, you hate the LGBTQ
Now, do you understand? - There is no explaining God's love to somebody who has never experienced God's love.
All of that is true, but it still requires a person placing their faith in Christ. Either that, or John 3:16 needs to be removed from the Bible. And that acceptance is certainly a condition.
When did you accept Christ as your Savior?
At 3 weeks of age. Baptism.
Infant baptism is never described as a placing of faith in Christ. A three week old cannot believe.
- Mark 10:14 “Let the children come to me; because the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.”
- Isaiah 40:11 “Like a shepherd, he will care for his flock, gathering the lambs in his arms, hugging them as he carries them”
- Ephesians 5:1-2 “Mostly what God does is love you.”
- 1 John 3:5 “Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.”
- 1 Peter 3:21 “And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”
Many Christian traditions that support infant baptism do so because they understand baptism to be the New Covenant equivalent of circumcision. Just as circumcision joined Old Testament Hebrews to the Abrahamic and Mosaic covenants, baptism is believed to join a person to the New Covenant of salvation through Jesus Christ. This view is based on the apostle Paul’s statement in Colossians 2:11–12: “When you came to Christ, you were ‘circumcised,’ but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead” (NLT).
https://www.gotquestions.org/infant-baptism.html
Oh Brother. Here you guys go again.
WG, I could say the same thing about you.Promoting such behavior is doing greater harm...nothing doing with the love of God. It's all you.Quote:
Ah, WG, you hate the LGBTQ+ community. Now I understand!!!
God created faith in me.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
As you said, "There is no explaining God's love to somebody who has never experienced God's love."Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
God isn't going to do it for you.Quote:
God created faith in me.
That's why it's a living Faith.
Then why do you and other God-haters understand it as - I don't want to trust in a God that is capable of condemning?Quote:
As you said, "There is no explaining God's love
Boy, you definitely missed confirmation and Bible classes!Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
The Holy Spirit works faith in us, even in babies.
Quote:
- Mark 10:14 “Let the children come to me; because the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.”
- There is no indication they were coming to be saved.
Isaiah 40:11 “Like a shepherd, he will care for his flock, gathering the lambs in his arms, hugging them as he carries them”
Ephesians 5:1-2 “Mostly what God does is love you.”
No support at all for infant baptism.Quote:
1 John 3:5 “Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.”
1 Peter 3:21 “And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”
The second paragraph is just speculation.
Can you give a single instance in the NT describing an infant being baptized? I'd hate to have my eternal security resting upon a theory that is nowhere stated in the Bible.
So you are saying it's a waste of water to baptize babies and small children. God doesn't care about them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
- What were they coming for?
I'm saying there is no indication in the NT that baptizing infants results in a Christian conversion. But if there is, then post the text.Quote:
So you are saying it's a waste of water to baptize babies and small children. God doesn't care about them.
What does the passage say? "so that He might touch them"Quote:
What were they coming for?
I'll say it again with all due concern for you. I'd hate to have my eternal security resting upon a theory that is nowhere stated in the Bible.
That's why two sponsors promise to help the parents raise the child in a God-loving way.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Your eternal security???
That's a great idea, but nowhere in the Bible is that any assurance of salvation.Quote:
That's why two sponsors promise to help the parents raise the child in a God-loving way.
I have long loved this passage from Romans where Paul gives us the promise of salvation from three different approaches, and yet they all present the same idea. I lean heavily upon this.
if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, [f]resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, [g]resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be [h]disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
You've never heard of Confirmation?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Can you find any place in the Bible where an infant was baptized and thus converted to the Christian faith???Quote:
You've never heard of Confirmation?
I'm not really interested in religious tradition. It is the Bible that sways me.
Apparently it has worked well for centuries.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
"Can you find any place in the Bible where an infant was baptized and thus converted to the Christian faith???"
You cannot, so I'm amazed that you would risk everything on something so non-biblical.
Good night, WG. God bless your evening.
So we can't baptize babies and children. They will go to hell if they die before the age of reason. And you have no belief in the power of the Holy Spirit to bring even babies and children to faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
And you have no scripture whatsoever to support your ideas.
The church you belong to doesn't baptize babies or children?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
We dedicate babies but don't baptize them. In the case of children, if that child has made a genuine confession of faith, then that child would be baptized. We don't baptize infants since there is, as we have seen, no Biblical reason to do so. Babies cannot, as you had put it, "accept Christ" any more than they can decide what town to live in.
I think it's unfortunate that you are so comfortable with a doctrine that has no support at all in the Bible and works against the concept of a person making a conscious decision to trust Christ as his all in all. There are many scriptures to support that idea while there are zero, evidently, to support infant baptism.
One of my favorites. "Look unto me and be saved all ye ends of the earth, for I am God and there is no other." An infant cannot do that.
Being Baptized is one thing. Being born again is another.
It doesn't matter what you think or what you think you know.
The boy shall be a Nazirite [dedicated] to God from birth.
Judas Iscariot was baptized after all (as I understand it)? Jesus gave Judas the power to cast out unclean spirits and heal the sick.
The two of you go round and round rehearsing the same thing over and over. This has been going on for years. When will you ever learn? Here we have two educators trying to educate each other...Carnality at its finest!
Correct.Quote:
Being Baptized is one thing. Being born again is another.
I have been telling you that for months. I'm glad you have finally gotten it.Quote:
It doesn't matter what you think or what you think you know.
In what way are you not guilty of your own accusation?Quote:
The two of you go round and round rehearsing the same thing over and over. This has been going on for years. When will you ever learn? Here we have two educators trying to educate each other...Carnality at its finest!
That must be what you were talking about when you said - Blaming it on the other guy.Quote:
In what way are you not guilty of your own accusation?
I'm not blaming you for anything or suggesting that anything here is your fault. I am pointing out that if it's bad for WG and me, then it's bad for you as well. Perhaps you need to live up to your own expectations first before trying to impose them on others.Quote:
That must be what you were talking about when you said - Blaming it on the other guy.
I wasn't talking about me. I was talking about you. Why do I feel like I'm talking to a child?
Just like a kid; "what about you"
The two of you have been on here for years, YEARS! One mention of Hell, or Baptism as a child (and many other subjects), will set you off in a different direction. Avoiding the Current topic.
You're funny
You were talking about yourself when you said this??? "That must be what you were talking about when you said - Blaming it on the other guy." Sorry. Don't believe that one at all. It was clearly addressed to me.
Again, perhaps you need to live up to your own expectations first before trying to impose them on others.
You are describing yourself.Quote:
The two of you have been on here for years, YEARS! One mention of Hell, or Baptism as a child (and many other subjects), will set you off in a different direction. Avoiding the Current topic.
We discuss things. If you don't like that, then find something else to do. You are certainly most welcome to stay, but it's really your choice.
And so predictable. You won't listen (you can't, it's impossible) because you are a know-it-all.Quote:
You're Funny
I ask questions. It seems to make you uncomfortable because you have beliefs not rooted in scripture, and you tend to just make things up as you go along. I actually listen to you rather carefully only to find that much of what you say is not true.Quote:
And so predictable. You won't listen (you can't, it's impossible) because you are a know-it-all.
Thus, you totally cancel out the power of the Holy Spirit to work faith in that baby as it grows up, especially with Christian parents and sponsors heavily involved, beginning when I was baptized. I was taught prayers, was read to from children's Bible story books (which I still have), was taken to church and Sunday School every Sunday plus to special services and religious activities such as during Lent and Christmas. At 13, after a year of special weekly instruction by the pastor in a class with others my age, I was confirmed and renewed my baptismal vows plus received my first Holy Communion. This is how the Protestants bring up their children, in knowledge and love for the Triune God and in particular for our Savior, Jesus Christ.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
You're simply being entertained. You are not listening. Because if you were, you wouldn't be so easily distracted by the never-ending arguments the two of you have been continuously going through for decades.
WG, I think you have a misconception of what faith is. Like I said before - "God is not going to do it for you."Quote:
The Holy Spirit to work faith in that baby
Don't you think It would be Both the mother and father's faith in God? Faith in God to Accept their Baby that they dedicated to the Lord??? There are many stories in the Scripture. God is waiting for somebody to stand up.
Read the Story about Phineas. I think it's numbers 25:7
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