 |
Rejecting my Aquinas anecdote does NOT make it false. In any case, my Aquinas story compared to your Jesus story are light-years apart. Aquinas never sent most of the world to hell, and I never said he did. Your Jesus condemned the whole world of unbelievers to hell and torture and you said he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Trustworthy? You? Not a chance.
No, but adding the truncated quote made your description of it false. No question about it. Would you like for me to repost it? I assure you I can. Then everyone can make up their own minds about it.
Why don't you post your belief about Jesus and hell so we can all make a fair comparison?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Why don't you believe what Jesus said?
Why do you say I don't?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Look at the Genesis thread.
I did. I don't see the answer there either.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
How has this degenerated into a religious debate?
It's inevitable when dealing with a white evangelist who supports Trump. The two are inextricably connected.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
I don't see the connection Trump is not a religious man
White evangelicals say he's a baby Christian.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Then why are the evangelicals supporting him along with the racists, and loonies? Strange bedfellows indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Put in the context of the demonrats any port in a storm
You're right there a very few conservative heroes nationally, but a lot of emerging dufus clones and clowns.
Quote:
from Athos
It's inevitable when dealing with a white evangelist who supports Trump. The two are inextricably connected.
Both camps, Trump supporters and OT God followers, follow the strongman theory of history. That explains many of the similarities - especially the bizarre ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Trump's voters are primarily from white evangelicals.
I'd still love to know what a "white evangelical" is and how their beliefs differ from non-white evangelicals.Quote:
White evangelicals say he's a baby Christian.
Black evangelicals believe in human equality as a biblical principle based on the oneness of the human family under God as Creator, stressing the importance of agape in their dealings with all humans and the need to reject racial and national barriers that forbid full fellowship and cooperative ministry. Black evangelicals give priority to Christ’s command to go into all the world and preach the gospel.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
White evangelicals (formerly termed fundamentalists -- rigid Bible literalists -- but they stole the evangelical term so as to sound more acceptable as Christians) turn increasingly inward, are caught up in their own internal affairs or controversies, and simply become more and more comfortable with the racial status quo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Excellent answer. One of the best.
Really, you think Christians racist. this view is coloured by the peculiar circumstance of your country and its history of racism
Exactly, 'Clete! It's a U.S. problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
and Yet your country is a racial melting pot? go figure
Some people are trying to fill the pot so the stew has white meat only.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
And you know all of this how?Quote:
Black evangelicals believe in human equality as a biblical principle based on the oneness of the human family under God as Creator, stressing the importance of agape in their dealings with all humans and the need to reject racial and national barriers that forbid full fellowship and cooperative ministry. Black evangelicals give priority to Christ’s command to go into all the world and preach the gospel.
White evangelicals (formerly termed fundamentalists -- rigid Bible literalists -- but they stole the evangelical term so as to sound more acceptable as Christians) turn increasingly inward, are caught up in their own internal affairs or controversies, and simply become more and more comfortable with the racial status quo.
Since this is a "biblical principle", can you show us scripture to support that contention?Quote:
a biblical principle based on the oneness of the human family under God as Creator,
It is simple he is the father of all, the ultimate progenitor
Nowhere does it say that he created races to be differentQuote:
Genesis 1.27
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
I've lived a long life and have visited many parts of the U.S., have interacted with people of color and from many different cultures.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Isaiah 45:18 and 1 John 3:1-3, my cherrypicking for the week.Quote:
Since this is a "biblical principle", can you show us scripture to support that contention?
ah go on, save us from looking it up?
The Isaiah passage supports your idea not at all. "18For this is what the LORD says- he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited- he says: "I am the LORD, and there is no other." So where in that passage does it say anything about "the oneness of the human family under God the Creator?"
Might add the curious feature that you don't accept the Genesis account of God as creator. Strange, don't you think?
The 1 John passage, given a little context, actually refutes your idea. "1See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Now there is an avenue of entrance into God's family, but it is not natural birth. It is found in many places. John chapter 1 is selected here. "10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God."
You really need to gain some understanding on the idea of cherry-picking. In your world, an appeal to the First Amendment for freedom of speech is cherry picking.
"Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position while ignoring a significant portion of related and similar cases or data that may contradict that position." So if someone actually is cherry picking, it can easily be shown to be the case by simply pointing out the material that is contradictory.
Yes, I do, especially that God is the Creator, as have many cultures and indigenous tribes before me. I don't get my panties in a twist over HOW He did it -- just believe He was the One.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Oh my! Apparently, like you do so well, I can't cherry pick anymore. And all those years I spent doing just that in the cherry orchards of western NY. Woe is me!Quote:
So if someone actually is cherry picking, it can easily be shown to be the case by simply pointing out the material that is contradictory.
Racism, born of hate and fear, is entirely a human construct.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
And even within each race, there's suspicion and distrust and envy and hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Why can't we all just get along??? It isn't that difficult!
Absolutely true. True even within families.Quote:
And even within each race, there's suspicion and distrust and envy and hate.
In other words, you don't really know. You're just expressing a personal opinion. That's fine, but it's no substitute for a real answer.Quote:
I've lived a long life and have visited many parts of the U.S., have interacted with people of color and from many different cultures.
I think it's funny how you two love to toss those terms around, terms for which you have no real understanding and have no desire to understand. This seems like a pretty good description. "Evangelicalism, evangelical Christianity, or evangelical Protestantism, is a worldwide trans-denominational movement within Protestant Christianity that maintains the belief that the essence of the Gospel consists of the doctrine of salvation by grace alone, solely through faith in Jesus's atonement. Evangelicals believe in the centrality of the conversion or "born again" experience in receiving salvation, in the authority of the Bible as God's revelation to humanity, and in spreading the Christian message. The movement has long had a presence in the Anglosphere before spreading further afield in the 19th, 20th and early 21st centuries."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism
The difference is, true evangelicals are not literalists. Fundamentalists are.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Just another opinion.Quote:
The difference is, true evangelicals are not literalists. Fundamentalists are.
Ask any pastor whose church has the word "evangelical" in its name. JL, do you know what that word means? (Pssst, ORIGIN: Middle English (in the sense ‘gospel’): from Old French evangile, via ecclesiastical Latin from Greek euangelion ‘good news’, from euangelos ‘bringing good news’, from eu- ‘well’ + angelein ‘announce’.)Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Did you just wake up? I just posted the description of evangelicals above, not thirty minutes ago.Quote:
Ask any pastor whose church has the word "evangelical" in its name. JL, do you know what that word means?
It's just your opinion, WG. You are welcome to it, but it has no real credibility.
Hardly, JL. You need to get out more. Evangelical is NOT what literalists are.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
And still more opinion. Sorry, but I don't put much stock in your opinion, but as I've said, you are certainly welcome to it.
Ask any pastor of an evangelical congregation. I grew up surrounded by legions of them. And rubbed elbows with them during much of my adult life.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Opinion...opinion...opinion.
I've been preaching for forty years. I know a lot of preachers, and many are evangelicals. And that means that, like you, I have met much less than 1/100 of 1% of evangelical preachers, and thus can draw no useful conclusions at all from my contacts.
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:22 PM. |