Ask Me Help Desk - Why work when the government will give you freebees for not working ?

Hello fellow libs, forgive the conservatives for they have no clue what they're talking about, though they make noise like they do. They've always been that way but the dufus corrupted them deeply. Despite booting the dude from office, it's going to take a while to wean them from the red meat they crave like junkies chasing a fix. It's ugly but will get uglier before it gets better.

Enjoy watching their heads explode, and don't worry if they seem dizzy from running in a circle hollering for more. That's what they do best! Show some tolerance but keep the rocks handy.

The choice is plain.

https://scontent.fmem1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...99&oe=60BF44A1

Same with the wall conservatives need to build?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Same with the wall conservatives need to build?

Yes it keeps people out, but it also keeps people in. It is sort of like the Chinese road system, magnificent toll roads everywhere, but your every movement is logged

The wall does not keep Americans in, and it does not keep legal immigrants out.

A wall would not keep anyone in nor would it keep anyone out.

Then what is the point of it? Walls have successfully kept people out and people in in various places in the world

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Then what is the point of it? Walls have successfully kept people out and people in in various places in the world

Successfully? Nope. Where?

Israel and the west bank. East/West Berlin, Great Wall

It is foolish beyond belief to suggest that walls do not work. They do not work perfectly, but neither do airbags, door locks and window latches. No one suggests we stop using those. It is absolutely certain that a southern wall would greatly diminish illegal immigration and drug/human trafficking.

Why should I pay for your wall?

But it would be your wall too

To reply to Clete who said this post lacks empathy or compassion or some other liberal drivel ; yes there are SOME people claiming unemployment benefits as they search for work and try to stay afloat from the economic pain incurred during the self imposed pandemic recession .However ,the purposeful constriction of the labor market by the Quids are effectively a state sponsored labor strike. The only thing missing is the picket signs outside of the business.
This serves the Dem narrative . Robert Reich tweeted that there is no labor shortage .“There is a shortage of employers willing to pay their workers a living wage.”
Quid on Monday was an echo chamber for that sentiment . “People will come back to work if they’re paid a decent wage.” You would think he was a union strongman boss instead of the President .The difference is that the Dems have the power to dip into government red ink to attempt to jack up wages

Let me give you one practical consequence that I have seen since moving to South Carolina. Here when you walk into the grocery store there is one employee greeting you and offering a shopping cart . There are numerous employees keeping the shelves stocked and assisting customers . There is one employee at the register and one bagging groceries and offering to bring them to your car.

In NY there was unresponsive staff who could not even correctly tell you what aisle the groceries you want to purchase was in . There was a handful of clerks at the registers but the bulk of the check out was computer self check out .
Forcing higher wages will bring an obvious reaction by employers .It will accelerate the pace of automation and other strategies to improve operation efficiencies without adding workers. . Those jobs will no longer be available .
Right now because of the labor demand employers are sucking it up and hiring what they can. I even hear of monetary incentives being offered just to apply
But eventually the generous benefits will run dry .September is the date . I do not believe there is the vote and the rationale to extend benefits further . At that point employers will get to pick and choose ;and if their employees are not productively at the top of their game ,there will be no reason to retain them.

If the government is going to spend taxpayer money on an employment program ,it should be on helping the lower skilled person obtain the training needed to compete in the labor market of the future . It should not be an incentive to take a government paid leave from the workforce .

About the only people calling for higher wages are the ones who aren't running a business and trying to stay afloat.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

To reply to Clete who said this post lacks empathy or compassion or some other liberal drivel ; yes there are SOME people claiming unemployment benefits as they search for work and try to stay afloat from the economic pain incurred during the self imposed pandemic recession .However ,the purposeful constriction of the labor market by the Quids are effectively a state sponsored labor strike. The only thing missing is the picket signs outside of the business.
This serves the Dem narrative . Robert Reich tweeted that there is no labor shortage .“There is a shortage of employers willing to pay their workers a living wage.”
Quid on Monday was an echo chamber for that sentiment . “People will come back to work if they’re paid a decent wage.” You would think he was a union strongman boss instead of the President .The difference is that the Dems have the power to dip into government red ink to attempt to jack up wages

Let me give you one practical consequence that I have seen since moving to South Carolina. Here when you walk into the grocery store there is one employee greeting you and offering a shopping cart . There are numerous employees keeping the shelves stocked and assisting customers . There is one employee at the register and one bagging groceries and offering to bring them to your car.

In NY there was unresponsive staff who could not even correctly tell you what aisle the groceries you want to purchase was in . There was a handful of clerks at the registers but the bulk of the check out was computer self check out .
Forcing higher wages will bring an obvious reaction by employers .It will accelerate the pace of automation and other strategies to improve operation efficiencies without adding workers. . Those jobs will no longer be available .
Right now because of the labor demand employers are sucking it up and hiring what they can. I even hear of monetary incentives being offered just to apply
But eventually the generous benefits will run dry .September is the date . I do not believe there is the vote and the rationale to extend benefits further . At that point employers will get to pick and choose ;and if their employees are not productively at the top of their game ,there will be no reason to retain them.

If the government is going to spend taxpayer money on an employment program ,it should be on helping the lower skilled person obtain the training needed to compete in the labor market of the future . It should not be an incentive to take a government paid leave from the workforce .

You certainly have it good with all that service, here we find things for ourselves in isles marked with appropriate signage, we have multiple checkouts and shopping trolleys so we don't have anyone assist us to the car park and the employees are all paid more than minimum wage

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employees are all paid more than minimum wage

I don't believe for one second that "all" of the workforce in Australia makes more than minimum wage considering that the minimum wage there, for those 21 and above, is about 18 dollars an hour. Here, only 2% of the American workforce makes minimum wage, so the net effect is about the same as "all". In my area right now, practically everyone is paying considerably above minimum wage.

For the record, 18 an hour seems kind of high, but I like your approach of allowing those under 21 to make less than 18 an hour. I could be talked into a higher min wage here if provision was made for young and new employees to be able to make less so they can still get jobs.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

If the government is going to spend taxpayer money on an employment program ,it should be on helping the lower skilled person obtain the training needed to compete in the labor market of the future.

Exactly! Start with education. Put together classes in middle school and high school that will help students identify their particular skills and abilities, teach them new ones, offer internships -- and keep this vocational program current with the times and with the needs of society.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I don't believe for one second that "all" of the workforce in Australia makes more than minimum wage considering that the minimum wage there, for those 21 and above, is about 18 dollars an hour. Here, only 2% of the American workforce makes minimum wage, so the net effect is about the same as "all". In my area right now, practically everyone is paying considerably above minimum wage.

For the record, 18 an hour seems kind of high, but I like your approach of allowing those under 21 to make less than 18 an hour. I could be talked into a higher min wage here if provision was made for young and new employees to be able to make less so they can still get jobs.

You really must learn to read, I didn't say all, I said all the employees, and yes we do have a lower wage for lesser skilled youth. It seems your minimum wage is similar to ours, however, there is a compulsory superannuation contribution as well, so it is actually higher, the cost of things far from the centre of things being higher

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You really must learn to read, I didn't say all, I said those,

It's exactly what you said. "and the employees are all paid more than minimum wage"

Perhaps you can point out the word "those" in your passage, a word which you claim above you used. "You certainly have it good with all that service, here we find things for ourselves in isles marked with appropriate signage, we have multiple checkouts and shopping trolleys so we don't have anyone assist us to the car park and the employees are all paid more than minimum wage."

Now perhaps you were only speaking of your local store. That's possible, but even then I would ask how you could know that they were ALL paid more than minimum wage?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

It's exactly what you said. "and the employees are all paid more than minimum wage"

Perhaps you can point out the word "those" in your passage, a word which you claim above you used. "You certainly have it good with all that service, here we find things for ourselves in isles marked with appropriate signage, we have multiple checkouts and shopping trolleys so we don't have anyone assist us to the car park and the employees are all paid more than minimum wage."

Now perhaps you were only speaking of your local store. That's possible, but even then I would ask how you could know that they were ALL paid more than minimum wage?

I because they are all adults, some are even seniors and it is store policy, as it is a major chain. When will you get that when I comment on conditions here it is implied they exceed those there. I used to work for yanks who complained bitterly how much we were were paid without having reference to the cost of living, the distance, and the small population (size of market) they thought they could impose US standards here and the result is that people left for better wages and conditions elsewhere, me among them. You see we have a long history of labour laws which mandate fair wages and conditions and these cannot be undone at the whim of the employer

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people left for better wages and conditions elsewhere,

in other words the market set the wage

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people left for better wages and conditions elsewhere,

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Originally Posted by tomder55

in other words the market set the wage

Not exactly - you see we have a long history of labour laws which mandate fair wages and conditions and these cannot be undone at the whim of the employer

thank you captain obvious. Clete cited their minimum wage laws and then went on to say that laborers working for American companies chose to move on to companies that offered better opportunities . You know why I never hired anyone at minimum wages ? Because no one would've come to work at my plant for the minimum wage. That made the law about minimum wage irrelevant. The market set the price of labor.

The primary effect of raising minimum wage rates is to squeeze marginal and inexperienced workers out of jobs. We could raise the minimum wage in the U.S. by 50% and it would not result in increased wages for very many people, but it would continue to make it difficult for teens to get summer and part-time jobs and for inexperienced or poorly qualified adults to get full time employment. I would think the best approach is to encourage people to receive training for jobs that pay well. There are many of those out there. Going to college? Don't major in women's studies. Get a degree in engineering.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

thank you captain obvious. Clete cited their minimum wage laws and then went on to say that laborers working for American companies chose to move on to companies that offered better opportunities .

I guess you're Captain Less-Than-Obvious. You got it exactly backwards. Clete cited the laborers and THEN went on to cite minimum wage laws.

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no one would've come to work at my plant for the minimum wage. That made the law about minimum wage irrelevant. The market set the price of labor.

Not so. There were more workers than just you - like a few million more. The minimum wage law mandates a minimum wage. Surprised? If it were left to the market the minimum wage would be even lower.

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If it were left to the market the minimum wage would be even lower.

Actually, the market has moved wages in the other direction. 98% of American workers are paid ABOVE minimum wage. So if there was no minimum wage law, 98% of workers would be completely unaffected, and many of the 2% working at min wage would likely still make their current wage. The effect would be slight.

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I guess you're Captain Less-Than-Obvious. You got it exactly backwards. Clete cited the laborers and THEN went on to cite minimum wage laws.

Tom's point was that they were able to leave one job to go to another job which paid more. That's the market at work. Were American employers in Australia exempt from Australian min wage laws? I kind of doubt that, but perhaps it was so.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

thank you captain obvious. Clete cited their minimum wage laws and then went on to say that laborers working for American companies chose to move on to companies that offered better opportunities . You know why I never hired anyone at minimum wages ? Because no one would've come to work at my plant for the minimum wage. That made the law about minimum wage irrelevant. The market set the price of labor.

Employers set the wages not markets and now they scream about lack of employees as they try to reopen. Go ahead, force workers to take those slave level wages with no benefits and let me know how that works out for those so called job creators that are hiring, and hollering. Simple truth is that a year of devastation won't be solved with a few weeks of high hopes and eager pursuit of profits without consideration of those people they want.

That logic doesn't even apply to larger companies just the smaller ones on mainstreet.

It applies to all companies. Historically low unemployment rates drive wages up. Simple economics. Best advice for anyone is to become really good at what is in demand.

You must recognize size differences and locations in an assessment of businesses and their options and situations.

yes tal it is called strategic planning but it seems few businesses truly go in for it these days

The truth is that most businesses ;especially small businesses in the service area ,run on very tight profit margins . That is the strategic factor they deal with . Grocery stores like the ones I mentioned typically are at 2% profit margin.

Yes we know, small business is more lifestyle than earner, but that grocery store you mentioned is over staffed by today's standards but that what comes of having an employ more for less philosophy. Have you heard of German grocer ALDI, at ALDI trolleys are coin accessed, goods don't leave the cartons they come in, the cartons form the shelves, you pack your own at the checkout, if you can find something to pack it in and you bring your own trolley back from the car park. It is an interesting business model

At Walmart here you check yourself out, bag your groceries,,and haul it all out to the car.

sounds like a similar approach

Just like many businesses and stores that have not survived the pandemic. Even before covid many businesses failed in the first years anyway, and others are forced to modify the business plan with the onset of expanding online business. It's a never ending cycle of adjustments to outside forces and conditions. The funny thing is to incentivize business, you throw money at them, while incentivizing people you take money from them. Hoarders of wealth are job creators while poor people are lazy.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Hoarders of wealth are job creators while poor people are lazy.

I know your sarcasm knows no bounds Tal, but poor people are not lazy when given opportunity and fair wages and those opportunities exist for the hoarders of wealth like Gates, Soros and Buffett to make money by investing in people

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poor people are not lazy when given opportunity and fair wages

True for some but certainly not for all.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

True for some but certainly not for all.

JL your bias and privilege is showing

Clete, your ignorance is showing if you really believe that all poor people are looking for a job. It's hard to believe that anyone accepts such a plainly false idea. The more you post here, the more you sadly sound like the typical liberal dem. They love to refer to the ridiculous idea that "privilege" and "bias" somehow negate truth.

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JL your bias and privilege is showing

taken right out of the woke dictionary . It just makes economic sense that if you can get more benefit from getting largess from the government that it is a disincentive to look for work. I don't blame those who take advantage of the government's misguided generosity of other people's money.

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. " ( Alexander Fraser Tytler)