Of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
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Of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
why is public school your 1st option ? Set education standards at government levels and let schools compete to meet them. No one has convinced me that public school systems should even be the primary choice option . You have to get away from your status quo bias . The public school system is a failure and will be no matter how much money you pour into it . The price per student in public schools is twice what it is in public schools . Do you think you are getting twice the bang for the buck based on student performance ? Fund schools as we do through the property tax system and then give vouchers ,scholarship ,and grants ; and give parents the choice (I thought libs like choice) to decide which school to send their children to. If there were no public schools at all I guarantee that private schools would be easily be founded to fill the difference .
For a vast majority it's the only choice and you've never answered the question of what happens to them. Seems to me that public schools would have been run out of business if indeed they were that much better. We can debate the union/nonunion benefits/issues all you want, and I can see parents having choices, subsidized or not, but whether you have a voucher or not, sitting on a waiting list for a few years doesn't help those parents.
What do you do while waiting your turn on a list? Do they hire more teachers or build more classrooms? What kind of pay and benefits do these non union charter schools offer? Answer some of those questions and save me the marketing spin.
hard to run something out of business that is mandated by law.Quote:
Seems to me that public schools would have been run out of business if indeed they were that much better.
that would not be an issue if there were more of them .Quote:
sitting on a waiting list for a few years doesn't help those parents.
All you are using is strawmen issues that would be part of a transition. The bottom line is that public school system is a failure and you are happy with the status quo evidently
Not at all, I just don't trust your end game. There is no such thing as the free market. There is always a cost to pay if you can afford it. Small ineffective government works great for the monied decision makers using my state as a perfect example, but for ordinary throw away folks not so much. For you capitalism is the solution for everything but I disagree with the reforms you're proposing. I don't think you've made the case for transitioning from a public school system to a private one by blasting teachers unions or educational failures.
Even if you're half right you haven't shown the basics of dealing with those who go through the transitions no more than any other repub who wants a new world order. So yeah I guess I'm guilty as charged about that status quo thing because I've seen how the free market transitions people. Too much money from my pocket and too few options to replace it.
who said anything about free market ? I clearly stated
Quote:
Set education standards at government levels and let schools compete to meet them.
and yet every Dem program has horrible unintended consequences that Dems shrug their shoulders at ; say well we intended to do good ;and that it would've worked if we had just thrown more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at it . With the money spend on education in this country the schools should have gold tiles on the floors . How do you justify a public system that leaves so many students behind or failures ? And don't talk about it being a poverty issue . I know a number of people who have high school diplomas with less than an 8th grade reading level and would be totally lost doing basic math if they did not have calculators or 10 fingers .Quote:
Even if you're half right you haven't shown the basics of dealing with those who go through the transitions no more than any other repub
If you want to look at the advantages of a free market system, just compare cars or stoves to public education. The former has produced high quality through innovation while the latter is frequently stuck in mediocrity.
Teacher training and education is the big problem!Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Teacher training is but a small part of it. But even at that, who controls teacher training? It is not the free market.
Perhaps and how is that being addressed by the union that doesn't even want their rank and file working?Quote:
Teacher training and education is the big problem!
Sorry they loose all credibility with me when they have set up a system where 700 teachers (1 % of the total work force ) in NYC work out of rubber rooms . They get paid their full salaries to sit around ;free to read the newspaper, surf the internet, knit, chat or just doze off . Their cases never get resolved .
NYC pays 'rubber room' teacher six figures 20 years after sex abuse claims (nypost.com)
No matter what localities do to make the schools as safe as possible ;the unions push back . More safety precautions are needed for reopening, they say. The West Virginia state teachers’ unions filed a law suit to halt the states move to open the class rooms . In the Bellevue school district near Seattle, the teachers’ union encouraged some of its members to not show up to work in protest of the district’s expansion of in-person learning .The town took the union to court .
Study after study shows that covid transmission rates in schools are relatively low when mitigation strategies are in place . In California and Fairfax VA ; even getting vaccinated in not enough sayeth the unions .
If you were an elementary schoolteacher (let's say 4th grade), how would your schoolday be run during these perilous times of remote learning?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I'd be attached to a computer interacting with my students over the web
Of course it isn't enough. Also needed/required are masks, hand-washing, social distancing, and proper ventilation. A major problem is people like yourself believe vaccination is all that is needed. As every medical pro has stated ad infinitum, vaccination is NOT enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Not every student has a computer to interact with.Quote:
From Paraclete
I'd be attached to a computer interacting with my students over the web
well our experience says wearing masks, social distancing and selected shutdowns work as does isolation of travellers
How would you test them?Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Online test, ask questions, this was done here for three months last year
Plagiarism? Googling for answers? Doing non-scholastic things?Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Study after study has shown that transmission of Covid in schools is rare when compared to the general population.Quote:
well our experience says wearing masks, social distancing and selected shutdowns work
"With masking requirements and student cohorting, transmission risk within schools appeared low, suggesting that schools might be able to safely open with appropriate mitigation efforts in place."
https://www.who.int/docs/default-sou...rsn=320db233_2
This is a good point. Online learning for students in K-6 is a terrible idea.Quote:
Plagiarism? Googling for answers? Doing non-scholastic things?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Appropriate mitigation effects, including hygiene and ventilation.Quote:
from Paraclete
Our experience says wearing masks, social distancing and selected shutdowns work
There is a way to open schools safely, but not addressing the concerns of those involved locally is a mistake that can be corrected. Forcing essential workers, no matter the profession to work without such a verification process ain't the way to go. Even if a school is safe, teachers like everybody else can still be at risk of exposure to covid from other sources. A sick teacher does no one any good. A sick worker does no one any good and adds to the risk and increases the problem.
No need to be hysterical as we figure this stuff out.
take your time and get it right, the kids can do with a holiday anyway
The kids are suffering because of this teacher union and liberal dem mandated "holiday". No educator would ever say that kids "can do" with sitting at home for months getting a half-way education. It has already been demonstrated in several studies that having schools open is a low risk enterprise. Both private and public schools by the thousands are open all across the country and doing very well.Quote:
the kids can do with a holiday anyway
Mitigations that are at least as good as for a grocery store worker are already implemented . You just think that a teacher is a special essential worker who's risks and needs are above Doctors ,nurses ,police ,firefighters ,grocery store workers ,Walmart workers ,dock workers ,production workers all over the country. Why shouldn't teachers be under the same risks ? Is educating the children not important ? On line learning is an inadequate substitute for class room learning for k-12Quote:
Forcing essential workers, no matter the profession to work without such a verification process ain't the way to go. Even if a school is safe, teachers like everybody else can still be at risk of exposure to covid from other sources. A sick teacher does no one any good. A sick worker does no one any good and adds to the risk and increases the problem.
That is especially true for the lower grades. And even worse, it's not that the kids are standing still relative to learning. They can easily go backwards. This nonchalant attitude about kids taking a "holiday" is really disappointing.Quote:
On line learning is an inadequate substitute for class room learning for k-12
One size fits all doesn't work that well with school openings as some neighborhoods still have high rates of transmissions and hospitalizations and low rates of vaccinations and many teachers are still in a high risk category.
Too many localities across the country are in this boat, so generalities don't always apply.
Quid says follow the science . What he means is follow the science unless it goes against a major donor like the teacher's union. Kids are dying from this decision . Not from Covid . They are dying from suicide directly related to keeping them home isolated with little socialization with their peers
Quid campaigned on having most schools open in the first 100 days . Now Jen Psaki explains that when he said that ;he meant 50% ......and by open he meant once a week .....a “bold ambitious agenda.”
Is one day a week enough? Biden's school goal draws blowback (apnews.com)
We were already at 50 % one day a week before inauguration day .64 percent of schools already offered some in person instruction.. So what Psaki says is the goal is actually a set back
The goal should be 100 % immediately 5 days a week !
The“science” is clear and has been since last summer: Schools are safe. Kids are not significant spreaders . In fact, they’re safer in school than out.
The American Academy of Pediatrics, National Academies of Science, Engineering and Medicine and Quid's CDC director, Rochelle Walensky, have said schools can open safely.
Exactly correct. In our state that is largely being done now. Some problems, but there are always problems. These kids do not need to be staying at home. What is really needed is for Trump to call for schools to be strictly online. If he would do that, then the "We hate Trump" crowd would immediately send the kids to school.Quote:
The goal should be 100 % immediately 5 days a week !
While the covid numbers are coming down after the holiday wave much of the country remains in a red zone for cases, and spread. That doesn't indicate a rush to reopen all the states economies and schools. Even the scientists agree that the locals should be cautious in areas with still high rates.
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