It's not anything liberal; it's from personal experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
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It's not anything liberal; it's from personal experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Back to the OP....
Tomorrow evening's debate will be interesting if Bloomberg is part of it.
It's liberal.
If you're talking about me, I have been surrounded by conservatives since birth -- through all my schooling, by my church, by family of origin and in laws, by the communities I have lived in. If I'm liberal, it's because I've taken Micah 6:8 and the words of Jesus into my heart and as the reason for my actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
In all honesty, two things jump out of this discussion that could use more exploring: 1) As Athos pointed out, "the average white cop conditioned by media to see Blacks as criminals" and 2) Compensation for Policemen.
The MEDIA not only lies about people of points of view other than their own, they also lie about minorities, in this case Blacks, to the point that they have tainted Law Enforcement against Blacks....this makes me want to blame the MEDIA more than blame the Police for their occasions of bad behavior.
Nobody has talked about Police Compensation/pay: By and large, you get what you pay for in this world. You want a good education at a major university, you pay through the nose....you want quality teachers, you have to pay them decent wages....you want a great chef at a major restaurant, get ready to pay him.....you want good politicians, get ready to pay them (wow, we may be paying them too much, bad example!)…..Policemen are no different: How are you going to attract "the best and brightest" Police Officers when their pay is not competitive with other disciplines? You want super cops but pay them like they are burger flippers! Soldiers get Combat Pay for being IN THEATER in combat zones: Generally speaking, a lot of Police Officers are walking into COMBAT ZONES every day in the U.S., and I am not exaggerating much, if at all! How are we compensating these people who stick their necks in the noose for our safety? Do we really appreciate the risks that our L.E.O.s take every day in the name of upholding the law? I wonder if can even conceive of what they go through. This may come as a shock BUT MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, it takes someone with no better than an AVERAGE IQ to put up with PUTTING EVERYTHING HE HAS AND EVERYTHING HE EVER IS GOING TO HAVE on the line each and every day! DO YOU HONESTLY THINK A SMART MAN WOULD RISK HIS LIFE EVERY DAY FOR MINIMAL PAY, DAY-IN AND DAY-OUT, ONLY TO BE SECOND GUESSED AND RIDICULED BY THOSE HE IS SWORN TO PROTECT? Aren't we asking a little much? Cops are humans, too: Every man has a breaking point when exposed to prolonged periods of combat...99.8% of the men in this world will break at some point in combat, time is the deciding element.....the 0.2% that do not break are psychologically unstable human beings.
So I see your argument but to extend it; to get a great president you would need to pay a billion dollars, no, that won't work, you already have one who has a billion dollars. many of your politicians are millionaires, hasn't bred a better politician. No, you need to return to the Roman times when politicians served without pay, it was a position provided by their circumstance and civic duty
I never cease to be amazed at your constant game of semantics to obscure your errors. I am appalled.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Vac that was an interesting enough summation that I looked it up and depending on areas they get paid rather well, but as you say is it enough to really compensate them for the rigors of the work? Another part of this whole thing is we should not judge the actions of a few with a broad brush of all of them. Not ALL cops are scary racist arseholes and it doesn't take but a very few to make BIG headlines, and traffic stops may not be completely about just race, but quotas as well, so in all honesty the problems with minorities and cops can be lethal, but for many different reasons in different places. One of the most infuriating things for minorities which adds to the mistrust is the wholesale covering up of bad cops doing really bad stuff. The fact that they so blatantly get away with it is the cause of much concern over years. Policies also like stop and frisk, not new and a practice in many places before NY for years helps NOTHING, nor profiling practices, all done for years and decades, starts at the TOP of the chain, and has not served their communities well at all.
Sometimes those things get lost in the discussion and makes all those personal anecdotes of individuals and their bad experience take on a bigger role than otherwise they would along with the new phenomenon of cell phone videos of cops doing bad stuff making an already bad situation even worse and communities and good cops who are silent to bad policy and practice are all victims of a sometimes inadequate system and the people that make it so. It helps nothing when white people call a cop on a minority minding his own business in there establishment, and the cop handles those situations badly but it adds much to an already growing resentment by minorities and even people who are not giving more fuel to the fires of racial inequality and treatment. There's enough blame to go around for sure, but lets not pretend that it doesn't happen or disregard the need to change it.
I think I've had my fill of this respect the bad cops, when the evidence says they should not even be cops. At least don't send the SOB's to my neighborhood. That would at least start the healing and maybe the good cops wouldn't be targets and have to die at the hands of those that hate them for what has been systematically done by bad cops and the policies of the powers that be.
Very grateful though to this forum for respecting the need to talk about race in an open way and thanks for listening white peoples. Sometimes listening is all you have to do since that's where understanding begins.
V7 - compensation comes in many forms,. not just dollars. The mindset of an ordinary guy who is given a gun, a badge, and a uniform is heady stuff. The cop doesn't think of himself as a person who "protects and serves", but rather as a guy whose word is law and citizens better obey in any confrontation.
Then there are the temptations which lead to corruption, especially in the large urban areas. Drug payoffs, for example, are enormous and the good cop who sees this is faced with the Blue Wall of Silence. Even the top cops can be corrupted - see Bernie Kerik, past PC of New York City.
There's something inherently dangerous in being a policeman. Too much power for one individual. Fair trials for bad cops would be a step in the right direction - not "I feared for my life" as a defense that juries buy when the cop is clearly shown shooting a suspect in the back as he is running away. Video cameras should record every single police stop.
Athos: In the area I live, a large portion of the Law Enforcement personnel are Ex-Military....and it is pretty obvious from their hair cuts to the way that they carry themselves. I sincerely believe that the Military background in the Police Forces is a big plus, not only from the discipline portion of it but, also, from the psychological part of it.
Police Departments love to recruit ex-military. I was recruited by the LAPD when I got out. Ex-military, as good as most may be, also can bring problems to police work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacuum7
I thought of another media thing - unlike portrayals of African-Americans, when Police are portrayed in media, they are invariably heroic, brave, honest and terrific all-around. Not to mention good-looking and the women are spectacular. This is not a criticism of media, but an important factor in how our culture looks at certain groups.
Athos: There is a lot of, for lack of a better word, "subliminal" messages that can be put out by MEDIA, if they so chose to take that approach, upon old John Q. Public. If we knew the real story, we would probably be shocked at how much MEDIA has influenced our thinking and actions over the years....and OUR MEDIA was hard at this a long time before the notorious "Russian Bots" were in the public purview.
If you look at Bloomberg, now Presidential Candidate Bloomberg, he could have a very deft capacity to influence public thought given his enormous "financial network".
Hard truth of the matter: We are being psychologically ASSAULTED on a daily basis! That's why, sometimes, you just have to turn everything off and put blinders on for a at least a few days!
nanny Bloomy is going to feel like a pinata after tonight . And it won't matter . When the Dems see their choice of a communist or Trump lite they will flock to Bloomy ....and the ones on the fence he will buy off. It is a ways off yet but look to Slim Shady Sharpton to support nanny Bloomy even though there were race tensions in his term as Mayor of NYC due to stop and frisk ;even though he squashed protests and allowed them to demonstrate behind "free speech "cages Even though homelessness began to rise on his watch.
Well that answer is easy . Sharpton still owes $ 9 millions in unpaid taxes . Here comes nanny Bloomy on a white horse and a check book in his hand. Viola ! instant endorsement right before the NY primary !
Media, including advertising, is so powerful, it doesn't need subliminal messages. Look what Goebbels did to the German people in thew 1930s. Repeat, repeat, repeat is the opposite of subliminal. Trump is a master at this. "Fake news, the Russian Hoax" - we see and hear this almost daily from Trump. He knows what he's doing. His Medal of Freedom winner Limbaugh has instructed his followers to watch only FOX-News, never the other broadcasters. Hardly "Freedom"!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacuum7
The Russian bots were smart enough to target the swing states in 2016 - Pennsylvania, Michigan etc. Someday we may learn how effective they were.
He's already doing it via enormous TV ad buys.Quote:
If you look at Bloomberg, now Presidential Candidate Bloomberg, he could have a very deft capacity to influence public thought given his enormous "financial network".
As you say, it's nothing new. Vance Packard wrote The Hidden Persuaders in the 1950s exposing how the ad companies manipulate the public - quite successfully, I might add. Yet we're still lambs led to the slaughter.Quote:
Hard truth of the matter: We are being psychologically ASSAULTED on a daily basis! That's why, sometimes, you just have to turn everything off and put blinders on for a at least a few days!
Athos: I know you're right about the effectiveness of the MEDIA....I do have and opinion, though: If you "READ" and you try to balance PRINT Vs. ELECTRONIC, you might have a better chance of weeding through the garbage and not being "led down the garden path" by the pied pipers. I also think the "educated" have a better chance at navigating through all the crap that is slung from every direction...I say this but then look back at your example with Goebbles and how he conned Germany, who had a VERY educated population and STILL succumbed to the siren of der Further....that still bugs the piss out of me, don't understand it.
Just saw a video of Goebbles talking to an American reporter and speaking to the American people, through and interpreter, in 1938: he looked like he was lying and even acted like he knew he looked like he was lying! Guy looked like a weasel!
all Nazi were weasels vac they didn't just look like them
Paraclete: Ha, ha! Great point! Truly diabolical beasts.
after the train wreck I still say bernie will be the candidate
Absolutely true! Any educated person can "weed through the garbage" but it takes effort, and sound bites are enormously effective. The dumbing down of the nation is not a good thing. One very bad result is that it leaves the power in the hands of those who know how to manipulate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacuum7
Athos: The dumbing-down of America is on full display and, I agree, its dangerous....but, perhaps, what is even more dangerous is when you COMBINE dumbing-down with ARROGANCE OF THE DUMBED-DOWN PEOPLE, a truly horrific combination! Too arrogant to realize how dumb they have become...one of my favorite movie lines: "I always knew you were a bastard....but its the "dumb bastard part" that I really have a problem with!"
The acceptance of the idea that we can have more things from the feds and not have to worry about paying for them is a huge problem and goes right along with your "dumbing down" theory. The American people have completely accepted this, so both repubs and dems are completely invested in it. When the day of reckoning comes rolling around, it's going to be a shock to a lot of folks.
jlisenbe: What you said is unarguable.....and it transcends all party or political affiliations. This is the one subject that all of us on this forum are probably together on and the same page....we can't keep doing the stupid stuff and expecting it to work because it NEVER worked in the first place. Education is the key component: We don't have to be all PhDs but we need to stop accepting everything that is "fed" to us by the MEDIA and others as being gospel: We should CHALLENGE our leadership and see if they can truly support their positions: Everyone wants the easy answer but sometimes there are no easy answers and no ONE MAN can be more intelligent than a collaborative group of men.
Back in the day of 3 network media things were clear cut and easier because there just wasn't a lot of contradictory stuff and the news was just a few hour thing to break up the entertainment programming. That day left with the 24/7 cable news shows and the internet taking over. We must also recognize that before our eyes we have been in an extended period of transition from old norms to the new world order of things where factories are replaced by hospitals and high rise offices. It's effects on people is profound indeed and while we are making bucks in the new world order of things to denigrate and castigate those without the ability to keep up, or get left behind, or left out is despicable indeed. If Big Biz and charity can't do it then government is the only viable vehicle left, so to say it's okay to leave half the population hanging on their own devices and government should play NO role, amid this transition, is not even close to the high moral standards some espouse, but action truly belies.
So we either rise to the challenges this brave new world order presents, or drown in our own crap until we figure it out as a collective. Now we can blame the media, the liberals, the conservatives, the rich, the poor, young immigrants, and old immigrants, the dumb, the smart ad nauseum. Doesn't matter! What matters is we rise to the challenge as a COLLECTIVE. We got the right wing version of a solution with the dufus, because the other guys stayed home. So I see the collective society must do a better job of PARTICAPATION in the process of picking leaders and legislatures as a first step in the solution to the problem, or present leadership will run buck wild maintaining the status quo of MO'Money for themselves.
If you think in your wildest dreams you can maintain a great nation by leaving almost half the population out of it you're probably as loony as a broken cuckoo clock. Only correct about a couple of things twice a day if that. I check the accuracy of whatever watch we use for accuracy!
Talaniman: Whatever happened to the collective group "SYNCHRONIZING" their watches? That makes things run smoother!
Nanny Bloomy'd best debate moment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK9odsWwfIo
Everybody has to have a good watch to synchronize don't they? Then you have to start with being able to tell time in the first place. Some people get stuck counting their own fingers, let alone trying to master a watch. Not saying they are bad people mind you, just challenged in this particular area. That's why I keep the standard for voting at participation. Maybe synchronizing can come later. Finger crossed!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacuum7
LOL, I suspect you were looking for that clip instead of watching the debate! Hardly blame you.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Bloomberg is real short on charisma.....and long on $$$s!
That was hilarious.Quote:
Talaniman: Ha, ha: STOP IT! Be nice. Trump came into Office rough around the edges but he is softening those edges some over time. I am sure that in his 2nd Term he will be more mellow.
Geez Vac, you sound like Susan Collins when she said impeachment taught the dufus a lesson. Yeah right.
Take a guess ….which candidate owns this home ?
https://thenypost.files.wordpress.co...rip=all&w=1280
What's your point?
Bolshevik Bernie? Isn't that too big for a Dacha?
that's one of 3 homes he owns . here is his modest lakeside home
500 feet of lakefront on Lake Champlainthey added the American flags for the photo op
https://s.hdnux.com/photos/50/75/52/.../3/480x480.jpg
https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpre...ll&w=782&h=517
A real advocate for poor people. If he really wants to help people, he would seriously downsize and give that money to charity. But then that would not qualify for liberal political thought.
How come that doesn't apply to the dufus?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
It does, but the difference, to those who are paying attention, is that Trump does not claim to be the great advocate and protector for the poor in the way that Bernie does. It illustrates what I have said many times. Charity is when I help the poor with my money. Tyranny is when I help the poor with your money.Quote:
How come that doesn't apply to the dufus?
Makes some sense, and for once he isn't making a promise he knows he won't keep, because he sure is expanding the less than median income rolls. Wonder if they will say they are better off than they were before his regime?
https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/...60&u=t&o=f&l=f
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