Is that the same capitalism that built the most prosperous country in history?Quote:
this is the capitalism you love, enslave the population under the guise of doing something for them.
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Is that the same capitalism that built the most prosperous country in history?Quote:
this is the capitalism you love, enslave the population under the guise of doing something for them.
Off the backs of slaves and immigrants doped, whipped, raped, ravaged, and beat down like animals.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
They don't get it, tal, but then the greedy never doQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
The North was always the most prosperous, and they did not have slavery. At any rate, that ended over 150 years ago, last I heard.Quote:
Off the backs of slaves and immigrants doped, whipped, raped, ravaged, and beat down like animals.
Slavery may have ended long ago but not all the animal treatment that followed, and they have invented better tools to enslave people, like the minimum wage.
I don't think the minimum wage has enslaved anyone. The biggest problem most of us have is the person looking at us in the mirror. We live in the freest country in the world. Most of our failure is caused by the person in the mirror
You're right, how dare those employees forced to work for nothing go to a food bank. Oh wait, these aren't poor people, they were middle class government workers. The nerve of those guys.
You must be bummed even conservative run states voted to give the poor a raise. The dufus gave himself one too.
Try to understand, the capitalists don't want the poverty of the worker inflicted upon themselves, so they hoard money rather than being generous. This frugal mindset is thought to be Christian, but it was never Christian since the early Christians had everything in common, an idea so foreign to the prosperous, American state as to be seen as communism. Ok, was Christ a communist?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Not true now and was not true then. They shared their possessions as each had need, but there was never common ownership.Quote:
since the early Christians had everything in common,
2.5% of workers earn the minimum wage. Yeah man. So that is the great curse of capitalism, that the vast, vast majority of people working earn above, and generally far above, minimum wage? And you want to call that an economic failure? If everyone was driving a BMW, you would still find something to complain about. Most people in America who are poor are poor by their own doing. Might sound harsh, but it is true. Didn't bother to get educated. Had children out of wedlock. Not willing to work. Not willing to be responsible. Major problems with the law. They are still people and we should still be of help to them, but don't blame their poverty on capitalism. That's nonsense.
I help out at a drug rehab center. We recently had two guys graduate, meaning they completed a six month course. Both of them had a job within a week, even with addiction in their history. So yeah, I think anyone can get a job and take care of him/her self in this country if that person is mentally/physically sound.
Mentally or physically sound is where most people fall through the cracks. Even those that are mentally and physical (Or EMOTIONALLY) sound are subject to things beyond their control like plant closings and government shutdowns. It is not an easy thing to adjust or cope with such outside changes and could take YEARS to overcome. That's with the proper love, support, help, and guidance.
There is a lot more to worry about than being the victim of some criminal immigrant. Not denying that it can happen, but focusing so much resources on slowing HIM down seems a denial of much more important priorities and resources. We just have the wrong leader to adequately and reasonably address the REAL issue, as the evidence says that the resources to process and help first time migrants that struggle yield many useful productive citizens in subsequent generations.
I don't want a guy like the dufus taking my money and forcing me to help build his wall when he has lied, cheated and stolen all his life, and even now his criminal buddies are being exposed and are going to jail, and forces honest workers to work for nothing bringing unnecessary hardship to them and their families and all who use the services they provide. Colludes in the interest of enemies and conflicts with our allies. His rich guy cabinet has no empathy or experience in managing the lives of ordinary citizens, and has brought more chaos than order to America.
And you wonder why most Americans refuse to follow and resist this dufus?
https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?ur...KTGGYkbKnw--~C
https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?ur...6wiR2swqLA--~C
In fact the minimum wage has been a failure . What is really does is prevent entry level people from getting jobs .It destroys entry level jobs ;denying them to teens who are in desparate need of learning basic job and life skills .Moderate increases in pay become a heavy burden to low margin businesses like restaurants and grocery stores, the places most likely to have low skill work that teens traditionally used as a starting point. You can stop your moralizing about it . The fact is that the real reason the left likes the minimum wage is because every increase become the new base for union negotiations .
You would be a slave for rich guys if it weren't for unions, and lets face it, adults need a living wage, no matter their mental, physical or emotional soundness and regardless of where they work, or the condition of who they work for, but I understand your capitalist view that favors the business mans concerns over the people who work, and your aversion for worker uniting and expressing their needs, or worth. Is that why the minimum wage is a failure? You think there are still entry levels jobs JUST for teens to get their feet wet? Naw, that tradition is no longer a luxury in today's world.
Capitalism is what has been the failure.
nah I would never be a slave . I have worked where I am as long as I have because as the company has grown ,I was given the opportunity to grow with them .Other places I came and went on my terms . I consider employment a contract . I give my best effort and get compensated accordingly . When that arrangement has changed I have moved on without any bad feelings . Each place I have worked allowed me to hone my skills . My new employer benefited from what I learned at my former employer and so on.
Yeah. Just think what we could have done if we had socialism like Venezuela.Quote:
Capitalism is what has been the failure.
About 11% of American workers belong to unions, so that has not been the salvation of the American worker. For a person who works hard, increases his/her skill level, gets along with people, and stays out of trouble, the sky is still the limit, thanks to capitalism.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/how-so...ic-basket-case
Yes union membership has shrunken over the years, but the benefits are still being shared by all. Venezuela is a failed state but like most communism it fails because of the way it is implemented. Just like capitalism. No different from any class and privilege system in the world, that favors some over others.
Maybe when you conservatives stop puffing your chests out about how hard you work you would see that and be grateful enough for your own blessing, because but for the grace of God you got those blessings.
You could have been the descendent of slaves, and still fighting for the freedoms you were promised centuries later, in a country that was built on the backs of those slaves while the master takes the ALL credit. The cafeteria workers and janitors work as hard as the school administrators. Who gets credit for the great school?
Which lack of rights is responsible for 75% out of wedlock birth rates? You can keep blaming all those woes on others, for the greater part of the problem by far is cultural. But as long as people can be convinced their lack of success is someone else's fault, they will never change. That is the great evil of the "poor ole us" approach you frequently take.Quote:
You could have been the descendent of slaves, and still fighting for the freedoms you were promised centuries later,
How does that apply to the northern and western states? How does it apply to California? Answer: Not at all. It's a dead end argument and flatly untrue.Quote:
in a country that was built on the backs of those slaves while the master takes the ALL credit.
Having been there, I can tell you that everyone gets credit. The "poor ole us" argument won't work there either.Quote:
The cafeteria workers and janitors work as hard as the school administrators. Who gets credit for the great school?
nope there were as many other paths in life I could've taken and saw others of my "class" (how I despise that description) take turns that led to perdition and ruin. But yes blessed is the man who seeks God's grace . First you have to put yourself in the right path .Quote:
but for the grace of God you got those blessings.
I wish I had posted that :) . And I learned first-hand that it's the bottom-of-the-pecking-order pages a.k.a. shelvers who are the heart of the library, who work as hard as -- and probably harder than -- the reference librarians, catalogers, and even the director. If library materials are not where they are supposed to be, the library can't function.Quote:
You could have been the descendent of slaves, and still fighting for the freedoms you were promised centuries later, in a country that was built on the backs of those slaves while the master takes the ALL credit. The cafeteria workers and janitors work as hard as the school administrators. Who gets credit for the great school?
Poor ole you.Quote:
I wish I had posted that :) . And I learned first-hand that it's the bottom-of-the-pecking-order pages a.k.a. shelvers who are the heart of the library, who work as hard as -- and probably harder than -- the reference librarians, catalogers, and even the director. If library materials are not where they are supposed to be, the library can't function.
What a load of clap trap and old boll0cksQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
that is why gorcery stores are rushing to automate the check out. So they can reduce payroll ,The minimum wage just gives them incentive to hasten the process .I'm guessing you were a privileged kid who did not need to work as a teen to earn money to go to school . Lucky you. I am thankful that some head of household wasn't competing for that job. I would've been priced out of the market .
We abolished exploitation of children a long time ago, yes, we have youth employment in the fast food industry but that only applies to a limited number. Checkouts are automated to move people through the checkout process quicker, I rarely use a traditional checkout, preferring to bag my own groceriesQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
So a teenager having a job to earn some spending money and learn something about responsibility is now, in Clete's view, the exploitation of children. In the words of Charlie Brown, "Good grief."Quote:
We abolished exploitation of children a long time ago, yes,
Indeed it is, we have minimum age for the employment of minors and laws that keep kids in school, as I said there are limited opportunities for employment of minors. No doubt the mum and dad business mainly run by migrants employ their kids but who knows if they are paid. Many businesses like 7-11 have been prosecuted for underpaying. As a young person I was employed in jobs such as you refer too and I now understand I was exploitedQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I understand I was getting experience that translated to more opportunities when I was an adult . My employers did not have to waste valuable training time teaching me how to work .
Voter fraud update : The Texas Sec State discoveredapprox 95,000 individuals identified as non-U.S. citizens have a matching voter registration record in Texas, approx 58,000 of whom have voted in elections.
Only in right wing loonyville is the needs of parents with kids, below the need for a kid to have spending money. It's 2019 my gosh and grocery store and fast food training was a thing back in the last century. It's not a right kids have after school jobs, isn't that part of a parents job? If they need to help out financially at home that's a different dynamic and they may as well get out there and compete in the real world, and today's real world the so called JOB CREATORS, not the government makes those rules. Government should though set good standards and give guidance to protect it's citizens against any bad behavior or practice that could be exploitive, and we KNOW for fact that always happens.
That's why lobbyist get the big bucks and politicians get a cut. Between huge budget busting tax cuts and rich guys demanding MO MONEY what's lost is the dynamic of practical need of citizens and the government charged with the promoting and protecting it's citizens. Yeah I know, all the taxes on the rich will never pay for the debts we have incurred, but smart taxation will certainly fund things we need as a country. Yeah only the loony right can come up with a plan to compete with the rest of the world by cutting taxes for rich guys and keep wages low while ordinary conservatives beat their chest about how hard they worked to get where they are, and blast anybody else as lazy victims.
Oh poor YOU! Get them darned ultra conservatives and right wingers out of my government PLEASE, and take that lying cheating dufus and his sycophants with you. That's what will surely let America be GREAT.
Only in right wing loonyville is the needs of parents with kids, below the need for a kid to have spending money. It's 2019 my gosh and grocery store and fast food training was a thing back in the last century. It's not a right kids have after school jobs, isn't that part of a parents job? If they need to help out financially at home that's a different dynamic and they may as well get out there and compete in the real world, and today's real world the so called JOB CREATORS, not the government makes those rules. Government should though set good standards and give guidance to protect it's citizens against any bad behavior or practice that could be exploitive, and we KNOW for fact that always happens.
That's why lobbyist get the big bucks and politicians get a cut. Between huge budget busting tax cuts and rich guys demanding MO MONEY what's lost is the dynamic of practical need of citizens and the government charged with the promoting and protecting it's citizens. Yeah I know, all the taxes on the rich will never pay for the debts we have incurred, but smart taxation will certainly fund things we need as a country. Yeah only the loony right can come up with a plan to compete with the rest of the world by cutting taxes for rich guys and keep wages low while ordinary conservatives beat their chest about how hard they worked to get where they are, and blast anybody else as lazy victims.
Oh poor YOU! Get them darned ultra conservatives and right wingers out of my government PLEASE, and take that lying cheating dufus and his sycophants with you. That's what will surely let America be GREAT.
My first two part-time jobs as a teenager were jobs working at less than minimum wage. After that, while in college, I worked summers and part-time. At no time was I exploited. In fact, I view as a blessing. I learned a lot of practical lessons. How to get somewhere on time, work hard, handle people, handle money, be honest, and spend wisely were all lessons I could not have learned in a classroom. It grieves me that young people are being denied those life lessons because the liberal do-gooders can't just mind their own business.Quote:
Indeed it is, we have minimum age for the employment of minors and laws that keep kids in school, as I said there are limited opportunities for employment of minors.
We were taught those lessons in grade school by parents and teachers. You have all my sympathy for not having been educated in those areas earlier.
No, you weren't, not in the same way you learn those lessons in the real world. You can't be taught, for instance, how to handle your own money wisely until you actually have some money. It is one thing to get to class on time when you are already at school, and another thing altogether to have to get up, put on clothes, and drive yourself 10 miles to work in a car you bought yourself with money you earned so as to get to work on time.Quote:
We were taught those lessons in grade school by parents and teachers. You have all my sympathy for not having been educated in those areas earlier.
Not even close to being the same thing. You have all my sympathy for apparently not having had to the opportunity to learn real world lessons.
My husband and I learned all those things at home AND at school, as did our kids. Working at paying jobs put all those lessons into the real world of work.Quote:
I learned a lot of practical lessons. How to get somewhere on time, work hard, handle people, handle money, be honest, and spend wisely were all lessons I could not have learned in a classroom. It grieves me that young people are being denied those life lessons because the liberal do-gooders can't just mind their own business.
My dad paid me a penny per pine cone (yes, we had several pine trees in our yard) that I picked up so he could cut the grass. I received birthday and Christmas money from far-away relatives; that money was put in my piggy bank and saved to buy fabrics which then were made into skirts and dresses for me (when I was older, I did the sewing). I was responsible to set my alarm clock and get up and dressed for school and Sunday morning church. When I was 15, I started working after school and Saturdays at the IGA a half-mile walk from my house, was responsible for getting there on time, serving as stockclerk and cashier (handling money, keeping customers happy, stocking shelves), dealing with wilted produce and a grumpy owner. My two sons were brought up the same way with the same expectations but had jobs in convenience stores and public libraries. Yes, lots of practical lessons -- first at home and then in the real world!Quote:
You can't be taught, for instance, how to handle your own money wisely until you actually have some money. It is one thing to get to class on time when you are already at school, and another thing altogether to have to get up, put on clothes, and drive yourself 10 miles to work in a car you bought yourself with money you earned so as to get to work on time.
I would agree with that. Both are needed. A high minimum wage tends to keep kids out of part-time and summer jobs. That's a shame.Quote:
My dad paid me a penny per pine cone (yes, we had several pine trees in our yard) that I picked up so he could cut the grass. I received birthday and Christmas money from far-away relatives; that money was put in my piggy bank and saved to buy fabrics which then were made into skirts and dresses for me (when I was older, I did the sewing). I was responsible to set my alarm clock and get up and dressed for school and Sunday morning church. When I was 15, I started working after school and Saturdays at the IGA a half-mile walk from my house, was responsible for getting there on time, serving as stockclerk and cashier (handling money, keeping customers happy, stocking shelves), dealing with wilted produce and a grumpy owner. My two sons were brought up the same way with the same expectations but had jobs in convenience stores and public libraries. Yes, lots of practical lessons -- first at home and then in the real world!
Mom and dad can buy groceries without assistance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Fake news from Trump.
Tom, you have to stop re-tweeting Trump's tweets. Surely you know by now the moron is a liar and doesn't understand numbers.
He has totally misconstrued Texas Sec'y of State report on voter figures. For one, the 58,000 number is over a period of 22 years! And even then the report doesn't say they are non-US citizens.
Please read it for yourself and don't depend on Trump for your facts. He doesn't read well and has poor reading comprehension.
When you post false figures like you've done here, you make us wonder about other "facts" you post.
Sounds pretty accurate to me. What facts are you using? This comes from that great bastion of conservative thought, the NY Times.
"The Texas secretary of state’s office on Friday called into question the citizenship status of 95,000 registered voters who were found to have identified themselves at some point to a state law enforcement agency as noncitizen, legal residents of the United States.
The office said its findings were a result of an 11-month investigation with the Texas Department of Public Safety that also found that about 58,000 people on the list had voted since 1996. The results of the investigation were referred on Friday to Attorney General Ken Paxton, who said he planned to open a potentially sprawling investigation."
The 58,000 means they have voted since 1996, so that sounds like it was done repeatedly over a period of 22 years. Is it a big deal? That depends on whether this is the iceberg or the tip of the iceberg.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/25/u...ing-texas.html
Let me explain the repub voter playbook. First they allow no immigration policy or language that allows illegals to become legal. Then they expand the illegal label, and that justifies greater scrutiny, and justifies purging the voter roll, with or without evidence that it's an accurate process. Then they fudge the numbers for example 3 million illegals voted, and leave out the 10 year period of the finding, to scare the heck out of folks and justify more polling/election security, and purge undesirable voters. And that's only ONE tool in the bag of tricks.
What makes it work, is an unaware public who doesn't verify the findings or reports, and willing to believe those that say the findings are flawed. The motive? To keep power despite changing demographic, and changing veiws and attitudes. Control the congress and control the money, and the power and influence that goes with it.
The solution is an informed electorate, and greater voter participation, as well as an accurate and robust process of oversight. Till then we only have the courts to settle these disputes.
Where did you get those figures from?Quote:
Then they fudge the numbers for example 3 million illegals voted, and leave out the 10 year period of the finding,
I presented no figures but have lived through the tactics as have many. Repubs holler widespread voter fraud and even have a list of names as proof, but upon investigation, they end up with far fewer, and single digit convictions in a good year. That's how it's been done in Pennsylvania, where local repubs admitted to their goal to suppress votes of dems, Wisconsin, Florida, Georgia, Michigan and the Carolinas, and at home in Texas. It's an old story, and they NEVER report the outcomes after an investigation, leaving the lie to linger about fraudulent voters as the justification for even stricter voter suppression laws. Create the fear, blow it up, and come to the rescue with suppressive solutions by repub state legislatures.
It's no wonder that the lying cheating dufus is embraced by lying cheating repubs. Despicable, and as I said old tricks done in public to sway elections. I will let you get your own links just Google voter fraud in... and add any state you want.
Here's but a sample in Texas. Silly season has begun AGAIN for 2020.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b00906b26c62ac
They tell it very well. This from the Brennan Center is also submitted for your perusal,
https://www.brennancenter.org/analys...ter-fraud-myth
I will include this article of suppression as another example of repub dirty election tricks.
https://www.care2.com/causes/what-do...-examples.html
Uhm...other than the figures of 3 million illegals voting over a period of ten years? So where did you get those figures??Quote:
I presented no figures
And no, I'm not going to waste my time digging through three articles that, if history is any indicator, will provide no justification for the figures you stated. Did you just make them up, or is there any source you can point to?
I actually used YOUR post and link to cross reference your article with local news TV reports.
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