 |
If the Kavanaugh nomination gets derailed, it will be a travesty. It will set up a scenario where corrupt democrats are able to drag up unsubstantiated allegations from decades ago to intimidate qualified candidates. That will be terrible. It will not be a win at all.
as Lindsey Graham said today . The politics of the day is what goes around comes around . If Kavanaugh is unacceptable ,Barrett will make their heads explode .
time to move the goal posts again .....Debra S. Katz,Dr Ford's lawyer, on FBI probe: "No artificial limits as to time or scope should be imposed on this investigation."
I think conservatives need maps to the Senate elevators. Evidently that is where Senate confirmations are decided these days . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bshgOZ8QQxU
Says a lot you can totally disregard Dr. Ford or others like her so easily for a well heeled entitled frat boy. Let your nose go and breathe...you have a whole list of wingers standing in line don't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Graham wants Sessions job, soon to be vacated, and you guys started this with Merritt Garland, so don't be so high horse. LOL, you thought you were going to just roll over Ford, and get the frat boy in lickety split? Obviously she ain't done but the frat boy might be.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
"a well heeled entitled frat boy"Quote:
Says a lot you can totally disregard Dr. Ford or others like her so easily for a well heeled entitled frat boy.
Amazing how prejudiced you can be. The guy has worked hard and studied hard, but he belonged to a fraternity, so he must be dirty. Wow.
As to Dr. Ford, she has no evidence. Listen carefully, n-o-e-v-i-d-e-n-c-e.
I didn't call him dirty. You know me, if that's what I wanted to say I would have but since you brought it up he is accused of sexual assault, and for the record, she named another guy as a witness. You may need torn clothes bruises and semen, but few victims do.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
To be fair he may be found more than dirty after the investigation, but a word of caution, would your daughter need evidence if she was assaulted by a drunk with another one watched? Or would you say where's the evidence? You listen very carefully my friend, THAT'S EXACTLY WHY WOMEN DON'T COME FORWARD!
And according to you it should stay that way!
Perhaps some day you will be accused of a sexual assault that, it is said, happened more than thirty years ago. There will be no evidence at all, other than the famous "another guy" who is unnamed and is, at any rate, not thought to have witnessed anything. The accusers memory will range from detailed to vague to nonexistent. There will be good reason to suspect that there is an ulterior motive to the accusation, and the accuser will be financed by people who despise you. Still, you will be guilty. Why? Because that's your standard of justice. So I would encourage you to listen carefully as well. A person in this country is thought to be innocent until a certain standard of evidence has been met. You might not like that, but I for one am thrilled to have such a standard.
Truth is, it sure appears that you want him to be guilty because of political considerations. God help us all if that version of politics becomes dominant.
So what did you mean by that? It was plainly not a complimentQuote:
"a well heeled entitled frat boy"
How would you describe him, jl?Quote:
So what did you mean by that? It was plainly not a compliment
However I would describe him, it would not be by the use of offensive group affiliations. I would hope I would evaluate him as an individual, which is what I would hope for anyone.
Again I ask, how would you describe him?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
OK. Based on what I have seen, he is intelligent, accomplished, caring, and seems to inspire loyalty. His professional life seems to have been sterling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
It's his private life that is in question, not his professional life.
Based on credible witnesses, he is a mean, nasty drunk prone to abusing women. These witnesses will be interviewed by the FBI this weekend and next week. The allegations include sexual misconduct.
Based on his testimony before the Senate, Kavanaugh is quick to anger lacking the necessary judicial temperament, shows a marked inability to answer questions directly, and arrogantly responds to senators who are questioning him. These are all strong indicators he sees himself as superior to others - not a good characteristic for someone wanting to be a justice on the highest court in the land.
His near meltdown at the hearing on Thursday revealed much about Kavanaugh including what poker players refer to as "tells".
Hello j:Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Well, Republicans did STEAL the seat, after all.. Why should the Dems let them get away with it?
They should deflect, derail, deny, dispense, and do ANYTHING they can to keep the seat OPEN until the midterms.. Then HOLD the seat open for President Biden to choose.. I think Merick Garland might be available..
excon
Which witness said he was a mean, nasty drunk? Which witness said he was prone to abusing women? If you are trying to include Ramierez and the crazy woman who said he was a gang rapist (which no one with even half a brain believes), then you have to drop the adjective "credible".Quote:
Based on credible witnesses, he is a mean, nasty drunk prone to abusing women. These witnesses will be interviewed by the FBI this weekend and next week. The allegations include sexual misconduct.
Democrat strategy. Get a letter alleging sexual abuse, hold onto it privately, tell no one, give the woman legal advice, have the woman come forward at the eleventh hour, ignore the fact that her witnesses do no support her story, ignore the fact that she mysteriously does not know key elements of her story, call for an FBI investigation 2 months after they found out about the story, and then act like moral heroes. If I was a democrat, I would hang my head in shame.
Truth is, the only thing Kavanaugh is guilty of is being a conservative. And we are seeing a clear demonstration that democrats will lie like a dog if they think it will be effective.
Well, you said it. "Do anything they can..." Lie, cheat, defame, destroy. You are getting your wish. Again, I'm glad I'm not a democrat. I hope the American people can see what low-life politicians the democrats have become. They have about as much character as a snail.Quote:
and do ANYTHING they can to keep the seat OPEN until the midterms.
The Biden Rule :Quote:
you guys started this with Merritt Garland,
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c45817...-election-year
Like i' said 'what goes around comes around'
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.71919c11f07c
The a lowlife move was denying Garland a fair process. Then you lowered the votes from 2/3 of the senate to a simple majority for SCOTUS appointees after you had the house, senate and white house. Now you can force anybody through and all can be done is delay, and obstruct, and if necessary destroy your nominees. So lets get off the dirty tricks we pull, until you can own your own, fair enough?
I get the clock is ticking, and you're afraid of losing the house, and senate, and politics is dirty and your well heeled frat boy was known as a political operative before he was a judge, which in my mind is not disqualifying in the least, unless there is a chance he may protect his benefactor if it comes to it. Chances are good it will sooner rather than later.
Now disrespecting and assaulting woman by a YOUNG country club, privileged HS'er, maybe while drunk, maybe not, may not be a big deal to you, but it is for sure with women, and REAL men who are honor bound and respect, and protect them. Or maybe you just have not seen enough of the carnage a drunk can cause in the lives of the ones closest to him, or have never experienced enough of carnage from an abusive drunk or sexual predators. You surely don't know while the body heals in time the mind does not, it takes much longer with much help and support, and if all you can say after the compelling story that Dr Ford shared with the nation is she has no evidence then you entirely miss the point of the bigger problem, so have no clue about what half the population faces because of that ignorance. Maybe it just that you have not had trauma at that level close to you, I don't know, but feel if you did maybe you would feel different, maybe not, and I could be wrong.
So maybe the FBI can do what repubs didn't want to do and that's shed lite on the events of July 1st, 1982, or there about. I don't know what will be revealed, but I do know that NO ONE would throw chaos and confusion and the attacks she has endured without it being important to do so for her. I reject the conspiracy and being paid to do so, a typical right wing tactic, seen often to rile themselves up against whatever target is the focus. Obviously works for you. SAD! The good news is her healing is greatly enhanced by standing up for herself effectively, something she couldn't do when she was 15 and pay attention and note how long it took to get where she is after decades of suffering. It's more common than you obviously acknowledge my friend, but as I said you haven't seen this dynamic closely.
Dr. ford also to be fair had advantages most women do not have and that's the interesting part for me because if such a well heeled privileged female could be victimized by such a traumatic event, what would it be for someone without privilege, resources, and support systems to help her life? Man it's good to be a lot tougher to get that healing so badly needed.
I'm not trying to change your mind or put you down JL, just present another view, because I think it better to see a bigger picture than a self serving agenda. I mean do you really want a judge on SCOTUS who hasn't learned or acknowledged his own shortcomings? How can he deal with yours or OURS? I know he looks good on paper, impressive in many aspects, but I would want to see the whole book before I jumped on that bandwagon. Just something to consider.
Well heeled frat boy is anybody who is raised in privilege with the inside track to the country club life.
I hope you realize that your quote is a description of Dr. Ford. She belonged to a country club and attended an elite, private all-girls school. So using your logic, she is bound to be lying.Quote:
raised in privilege with the inside track to the country club life.
You failed to mention that this was another step in a process started by Harry Reid and the dems in 2013. It was said then that it would eventually come back and bite them in the rear end, and so it has.Quote:
Then you lowered the votes from 2/3 of the senate to a simple majority for SCOTUS appointees after you had the house, senate and white house.
This is the part of this whole debate I despise the most. Make an unsubstantiated, probably false (my opinion) accusation that has been flatly contradicted by four witnesses named by the accuser, but then draw the incredible conclusion that because the accuser is a woman, then surely she must be telling the truth. Then you can say he won't acknowledge his shortcomings. What a sick process this has become, to destroy a man's credibility on such non-existent evidence. There are still those of us who value justice and believe that a person is innocent until proven guilty. So no, I won't join you in smearing the name of a good man who's character has been supported by the statements of literally hundreds of people.Quote:
I mean do you really want a judge on SCOTUS who hasn't learned or acknowledged his own shortcomings?
And please don't start the false narrative of suggesting that because I'm not going to go along with this injustice, that I am somehow anti-female. I have no respect for any man that would treat a woman disrespectfully, but neither will I just throw a man to the wolves with no evidence to support that action. And this is being done by people who, when they had the opportunity to support a woman who really was taken advantage of, slandered, libeled, and treated like a slut, they passed on that chance to come forward and support Monica Lewinsky. Instead, they fell in line behind a man who was PROVEN to be a man who lied about her and treated her in the most shameful and disrespectful manner possible. Tell me why I shouldn't conclude that the democrats have now turned out to be the biggest collection of hypocrites on the planet, especially with Cory Booker, an admitted sex offender, seated on the committee and asking questions of Kavanaugh.
https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?ur...27eU_Dcl1w--~C
One fact that was missing from your narrative (And the rest of right wingdom) was as we all were watching the questions of Ms. Mitchell for Kavanaugh, about the date in his book that included the names Dr Ford had given as being present. Why was she shutdown from continuing her line of questions by the repubs who hired her in the first place?
This is my second assertion of the importance of that so your thoughts please.
What is there to explain? His calendar notes he went to "Timmy’s for skis with Judge, Tom, P.J. Bernie and Squi." I'd be willing to bet it meant that... he went to Timmy's to drink some beer with Judge, Tom, P.J. Bernie, and Squi. No mention of girls being there. No mention of trying to make it with a girl. So what are you looking for? And if it was such a big deal, then why didn't any of the dems question him about it?
In the meantime, Dr. Ford says she became upset and left the party. She was miles from home, so how did she get home? That would have been a problem as she had no car. She can't remember how she solved that problem? That's a difficulty for me. I find it hard to believe. Now she might be telling the truth, but I have no way of knowing that. I will not simply assume she is being honest since she is female.
I know. I don't just automatically believe her in order to make a political point, so I must be anti-female.
That is what the investigation is about but that wasn't the question.Why was she shutdown from continuing her line of questions by the repubs who hired her in the first place?
I don't expect you to know what you don't have experience in. I get that few do. Most humans are irrational and unaware after traumatic events. Accident victims, soldiers, but if you have been around addicts and alcoholics then you would also know what they have gone through also, and the lengths they go through to get what they want, and what they are capable of. Kavanaugh's buddy wrote a few books on his experiences that may be relevant and revealing.
That was the question for me, was Kavanaugh capable of such a thing and the answer was a decisive YES. That repubs didn't want a deeper PROFESSIONAL look into the allegations was highly suspicious, and the blatant lie that his friends said he didn't do it when actually they didn't KNOW of it was enough to look deeper, yet it was repeated and still is. Too many questions to sweep under the rug about this guy for me, but if his background check into the allegations comes back clean I'm sure you guys will vote him in so what's the problem?
Still would like an opinion on the above question.
Answer: The general answer is that she did such a poor job of questioning Dr. Ford that there was little use in allowing her to continue, not to mention that it was time for someone to come to Kavanaugh's support as the dems had done with Dr. Ford. The specific situatioun you raised was because there was nothing there, as I pointed out earlier. But even if there was, why didn't the democrats pursue it? So that's my question to you, now that I have answered yours. Why didn't the democrats pursue it if there was something to it, as you say? Why did they never come back to it? Are they really, in your view, that stupid as to let something like that go unaddressed if it was, as you suggest, incriminating?Quote:
Why was she shutdown from continuing her line of questions by the repubs who hired her in the first place?
I've got some news for you. Most of us, in our teen years, were capable of a great many terrible things. I imagine you were, and I know I was. If not for the saving power of Christ, I would be who knows where right now. But because we were capable of evil did not mean we did it. That is excruciatingly poor reasoning with which to find a man guilty. If that makes him guilty, then what does it make you, or make me?Quote:
That was the question for me, was Kavanaugh capable of such a thing and the answer was a decisive YES.
As I've said a dozen times, it's all about politics. The dems are perfectly willing to destroy a man and impugn his character just in order to make political points. That's the really sickening thing about this. And they are using Dr. Ford, against her original wishes, to try and do that. Shameful.
Let me remind you that I have been working with addicts for 10 years now.Quote:
but if you have been around addicts and alcoholics
Why are the men who are now coming forward to accuse priests (men of God!) of sexual abuse 30+ years ago believed? And the priests are deemed guilty.Quote:
But because we were capable of evil did not mean we did it. That is excruciatingly poor reasoning with which to find a man guilty.
They are not always believed, but when they are, I think it is because there are several credible accusers who remember the details well. You don't have that in this situation. Might add that there is no potential political profit to be found in those accusations as there is here, so the motive is not open to suspicion.Quote:
Why are the men who are now coming forward to accuse priests (men of God!) of sexual abuse 30+ years ago believed? And the priests are deemed guilty.
Credible accusers "who remember the details well"???? The accusers of priests are young teens or preteens, and the sexual abuse happened many years ago. And the young men are going up against (homosexual?) priests in the Catholic Church, so yes, to many, the motive IS open to suspicion.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Whose motive? The young boys?
Whatever your meaning, it all still comes down to evidence. Evidence is the driver in our country. No matter if it's grown men or boys accusing a priest of crimes from years ago, or grown women accusing a judge of crimes from years ago. There must be evidence. In the case of Dr. Ford, the evidence certainly seems to point to her story being untrue. Four witnesses which she named, including a close friend, all say they do not remember what she says happening. Grown women by the dozens and dozens saying Kavanaugh has always behaved honorably towards them. Sorry. I know you want to believe Dr. Ford, but the evidence just doesn't point in that direction.
The grown boys have evidence against the abusive priests? As for Kavanaugh, apparently you aren't keeping up with the news.Quote:
evidence
predictably the Dems are already undermining the FBI investigation they demanded calling it not enough and not credible .
Uhm... that's kind of how the law works. No evidence... no case.Quote:
The grown boys have evidence against the abusive priests?
Not sure what you are talking about. If you mean the FBI investigation, then that has the potential to be explosive for both sides. If the FBI completes an investigation and finds nothing more than what is presently known, then the dems will look like idiots and Kavanaugh will be confirmed.Quote:
As for Kavanaugh, apparently you aren't keeping up with the news.
Of course I'm sure the democrats will then get right on top of taking care of the Cory Booker and Keith Ellison cases. Because, you know, they really, really believe in protecting and supporting women.
Wait! You forgot to mention Hillary!
Go Fund Me has now raised over 700 thousand dollars for Dr. Ford. Hmmm. Doesn't have to pay any attorneys fees either. Hmmm again. Now do I think she did this for the money? No, not really, but it is a little strange.
Well of course people do it for the money, there will be the book and later the movie rights. This is opportunism. Just remember people cannot be convicted of their thoughts and capabilities just their actions
Read this on the news this morning about accuser#3, Julie Swetnick. You can't make this stuff up. Especially interesting is the part about her making false allegations against co-workers. Not saying she was guilty, but remember that we are now in the age where simply making the accusation is sufficient to prove the case. Who needs evidence??
"Allegations laid out against her in the lawsuit include engaging in unwelcome sexually offensive conduct and making false and retaliatory allegations that other co-workers had engaged in inappropriate conduct toward her.The suit claimed Swetnick engaged in unwelcome sexual innuendo with two male employees at a business lunch with clients present and that she claimed two other co-workers sexually harassed her.
Webtrends, a web analytics company, determined Swetnick acted inappropriately but could not prove the allegations against her co-workers.
“Based on its investigations, Webtrends determined that Swetnick had engaged in inappropriate conduct, but that no corroborating evidence existed to support Swetnick’s allegations against her coworkers,” the complaint said."
And she is the "credible witness" that Athos referred to?
Quote:
Based on credible witnesses, he is a mean, nasty drunk prone to abusing women. These witnesses will be interviewed by the FBI this weekend and next week.
She is but one of 3.. with more on the way, dude, but what do you care about the millions of assault victims with NO evidence? What's your advice to them that have none? What should THEY do? Maybe Dr. Ford has no evidence, now or then, and all she can do is report it. What should be done after it's reported?
And why don't girls and women report sexual assault after it has happened? The high majority of us have endured various levels of abuse and/or assault. Sometimes it's by males whose names we don't know and never see again. And if we know the name(s) and we first report it to a parent or, when we're older, a spouse, guess what we're too often told: "It's over and done with, so forget about it" or "Talking about this publicly will bring shame on our family" or "What did you do to make him come after you?"
OK dude, you missed the point about credibility. None of the three has a credible story. Sorry, but that's just how it is. The evidence and witnesses do not support their stories. Simply being female does not make a person credible.Quote:
She is but one of 3.. with more on the way, dude, but what do you care about the millions of assault victims with NO evidence? What's your advice to them that have none? What should THEY do? Maybe Dr. Ford has no evidence, now or then, and all she can do is report it. What should be done after it's reported?
As to what should be done, well according to you, the answer is to send several thousand potentially innocent men to jail. No evidence required. Honestly, it would be poetic justice if you turned out to be one of those innocent men in jail. Should it ever happen, just be content to know that you have contributed to the cause of political correctness.
That is certainly a legitimate point, but it did not happen in the case of Dr. Ford. She never reported it to anyone who then told her to just forget it. In fact, she never reported it period until about 30 years later.Quote:
And why don't girls and women report sexual assault after it has happened? The high majority of us have endured various levels of abuse and/or assault. Sometimes it's by males whose names we don't know and never see again. And if we know the name(s) and we first report it to a parent or, when we're older, a spouse, guess what we're too often told: "It's over and done with, so forget about it" or "Talking about this publicly will bring shame on our family" or "What did you do to make him come after you?"
I know you two care nothing about justice. Your approach is, "A woman made the accusation, so it just has to be true. The evidence be hanged." And, of course, you can use this to take down a potential conservative voice on the Supreme Court. Truthfully, that is what this is all about. This has nothing to do with justice for women. It is all political. No one amongst the senate democrats cares one cent about Dr. Ford. She is just a pawn in their game of politics. If Kavanaugh was a left winger, we would not be having this conversation. Want proof? Look at Bill Clinton, Cory Booker, and Keith Ellison. What libs have called for justice for their victims? If you said "no one", you got it right. On this thread, it is up to me to bring up their names. You two never mention them because, I think, you don't care about them. It's all sickening to me, the blatant hypocrisy of people trying to act like the champions of women's rights.
I have two brothers, a (male) husband, gave birth to two sons, and would want justice done if any of them were ever accused of sexual assault or abuse. And by justice, I mean that every attempt would be made to discover the facts and that the abuser/assaulter, even if it's my relative, be punished for his crime.Quote:
I know you two care nothing about justice.
Yes, we would. Actually, I'm a registered Republican who votes for the person, no matter his political label, who I think will do the best job.Quote:
If Kavanaugh was a left winger, we would not be having this conversation
But they aren't the point of this discussion.Quote:
You two never mention them because, I think, you don't care about them.
Actually, Booker is very much a part of the Kavanaugh discussion since he is a senator who was asking questions and has admitted to groping a girl in high school. No, I think you guys don't mention him because there is no political profit to be had in it.Quote:
But they aren't the point of this discussion.
So you would be content if a husband/son of yours was convicted in the court of public opinion on the basis of the testimony of one woman whose own story is contradicted by the testimony of her four witnesses? If so, then we just live in different worlds. If not, then why aren't you at least open to the possibility that Kavanaugh is possibly, maybe even likely, innocent?
I know you love pontificating and blithering on and misquoting, misreading, or just plan missing something but it's a simple question "what do you care about the millions of assault victims with NO evidence? What's your advice to them that have none? What should THEY do? Maybe Dr. Ford has no evidence, now or then, and all she can do is report it. What should be done after it's reported? " I made no assumptions, just said it bears a closer look. A lack of evidence has nothing to do with credibility, though you make it sound like it. You are denying the whole problem. Women never get assaulted unless they can prove it? No wonder they are easy prey for predators and drunks, and lunatics.But being a man does? Obviously since repubs wanted NO investigation.Quote:
Simply being female does not make a person credible.
You have reality and BS all mixed up. You never even rechecked your lie about 4 people contradicting Fords story. Okay show me where THEY said it didn't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Here they are: PJ Smyth, Mark Judge, Kavanaugh, and Leland Ingham Keyser. Obviously you will discount Kavanaugh, but what of the other three named by Ford? Looks like the only nonsense here belongs to you. https://www.weeklystandard.com/john-...with-kavanaughQuote:
You have reality and BS all mixed up. You never even rechecked your lie about 4 people contradicting Fords story. Okay show me where THEY said it didn't happen.
I would not suggest we use your strategy of convicting a man with virtually no evidence. Sadly, things happen everyday for which the guilty are not held responsible in this life, but there is another day coming at which the truth will be known. Beyond that, I don't know what to tell them. Natalie Holloway was plainly murdered several years ago. No one was ever brought to trial, and her body was never found. What a tragedy. What shall we do about, throw Tal in jail and say he did it? There are some incidents in life for which man has no answer. What's your advice?Quote:
what do you care about the millions of assault victims with NO evidence? What's your advice to them that have none? What should THEY do? Maybe Dr. Ford has no evidence, now or then, and all she can do is report it. What should be done after it's reported?
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:32 AM. |