AH, I wish the purpose of these rule breakers was to fight evil, I suppose they do as it is personified in the person of the Greens and Labor, but their purpose is to perpetuate the right side in power

All politicians want to be on the right side of power. That's what they say anyway. Political shenanigans and dirty tricks is nothing new!

By right side I mean conservative, Tal, or not leftist.

I know that Clete, everybody has a favorite. Down with the other guy, right?

It's not so much down with the opposition, it is more like not putting up with their B/S designed to get everyone drinking more from the cash cow. Middle class welfare is an area for reform because it is politically motivated. I don't agree with tax cuts for the wealthy when the poor still pay tax, whether that's nominal or not, and I believe that a measure of universal health care should be part of the social contract, but those who can pay should pay.

You see, Tal, we may be closer in our thinking on some things than you might wish to admit, but our approach is very different to yours. Dealing with freeloaders is an issue

I think its standard operating procedure for a politician anywhere to bring himself into a better light to the public by dimming the light of his opponents. So digging for dirt or anything they can spin their way against an opponent is normal. After all the stakes are pretty high, since it means power, money, and influence, and the enhanced social STATURE an official title bestows on winners of elections, and let's not ignore the PERKS.

We have elections every two years here, and the political campaigns seem to be endless, but I think the modern world of technology feeds that perception more than anything, and our views of the whole world has grown rather fast challenging our brains and emotions like never before. It's no wonder that fear and uncertainty can so easily be stoked to fever pitch amongst many groups, and individuals. Fear mongering is a popular tool for our politician because it works, as well as out and out lying. We seem to fall easily for that dumb stuff, but should we blame the ignorant and gullible for being ignorant and gullible? Or the desperate for being desperate? Unfortunately we cannot always choose our flaws, or the severity of them, and some have more severe flaws than others, but it's frustrating like most human interactions can be.

Yes the governing structures of our two nations is very similar in many ways, as it is in many other nations, I will agree, but I think all nations are struggling with the idea of getting better. The great human experiment is evolving though. Seems it's a never ending process, and our own flaws and imperfection are the obstacles to that process. Unfortunately we all can have an aversion to step back and evaluate our own actions and make adjustments to obvious mistakes (Like electing Trump, and then tolerating his belligerence, IN MY OPINION.).

Coping 101 is acknowledging our mistakes and making changes which none of us likes to do.

Let me give you the remark of the day, deeply felt: I'm too old for this sh!t!

LOL, I totally feel ya Clete!

Just to wrap up this ongoing saga, the fallout has resulted in a cabinet shuffle, with new faces in the parliament on the front row. The Nationals are taking pain as Barnaby Joyce, the first to be outed in the crisis and reelected, has changed his lineup with lame explanations of needing representation from every state, while it seems the qualification for Minister of Agriculture is to have sat in a farm kitchen. opportunistically, the Attorney-General and leader in the Senate will make his way to London as "ambassador", no doubt to bang out a trade agreement with the UK at brexit. The decks have been cleaned and scrubbed ready for 2018 and the halls definately have not been decked with Holly

I've been study your government structure Clete, eerily similar to ours, though the names have been changed to protect the innocent ;), and am curious which party are you affiliated with? I think from what I know you would teeter between a right wing ultra conservative republican here, with moderate leanings. Oh now don't take offense, I intend none, just pointing out what I think are your ideological matches to our equivalents. I figure I would fit in rather well with the Labor party being a left leaning centrist myself, though fiscally very conservative, but hopefully not when it comes to the general welfare.

Please hurry and respond as our government shuts down tomorrow, leaving Dufus and his family home alone counting their money, and making room for everyone else's he just stole!

Hi Tal, I am not affiliated with any party. The Australian Conservatives most reflect my policy perspectives, but they don't seek representation at local level only in the Senate, thus I am forced to cast my vote in favour of the Nationals in the House because I cannot support Labor, they have demonstrated themselves to be fiscally irresponsible on many occasions and are full of ex union officials of dubious record including their leader, Shorten.

There is no ideological match that reflects your republicans or democrats since we are further along the socialist scale than you are and thus our Liberals might be closer to your democrats than your republicans. If our government structure is similar to yours it is because we took your model when writing our constitution but we left out the more contentious parts where you seem to have a great deal of debate today. Our states have a specific role in service delivery, but no role in military or economic matters, they cannot tax in the broader definition of that function

We don't keep having debates about whether the government will or won't be funded, it is a given within the budgetary process, so none of the drama and grand standing on that account. If supply is denied, the government must resign, last time that happened is 1975, when a Labor government was kicked out of office

Hey Clete, we are more expressive and dramatic, and there are a lot more of us, and we all have opinions. We have grown since those 13 original colonies, and a few million people, and more recently 4 TV channels, and ONE dominant race, and culture. Our tolerance and acceptance is being tested, and assimilation is on it's way out.

We still associate socialism with communism here Clete, so our progress, or lack of it in that regard, is extremely muted. A cold war does that to you.

So you don't like communism but you Like labor, Hmmmmm! More discernment necessary. Tal, we don't have full blown socialism, we are slowly privatising government run industries, but we had to have them because no one else had the capital or would take the risk. You speak often of there being more people, that isn't the issue, privilege is, and I thought from your perspective you would understand that. Assimilation is essential, otherwise you have a nation that doesn't even speak the same language.

We understand the cold war too, but we didn't let it colour our perspective. The Soviets were evil but the russian people weren't, we have the same perspective about you, about China and NK. Our close relationship with you hasn't done us any favours you know, but we preserve it because we are relatives from way back

I never said I personally didn't like communism, or socialism for that matter, they are but forms of governance, practiced by people who were not our best friends, but an all out war would destroy the known world. We can't have that can we? I'm not saying they have it perfected either, as obviously it's pretty easy to keep the sheep in line with an iron shepherd herding them for centuries. That's what dictators do dominate the whole population with no tolerance for crossing strictly laid lines.

I will point out that there is no free press in dictatorships.

Don't you agree that for assimilation to go on there must be some sort of INDOCTRINATION? I know you hate that and that's a problem when you don't know you have been indoctrinated. So much for freedom huh?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I never said I personally didn't like communism, or socialism for that matter, they are but forms of governance, practiced by people who were not our best friends, but an all out war would destroy the known world. We can't have that can we? I'm not saying they have it perfected either, as obviously it's pretty easy to keep the sheep in line with an iron shepherd herding them for centuries. That's what dictators do dominate the whole population with no tolerance for crossing strictly laid lines.

I will point out that there is no free press in dictatorships.

Don't you agree that for assimilation to go on there must be some sort of INDOCTRINATION? I know you hate that and that's a problem when you don't know you have been indoctrinated. So much for freedom huh?

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When I speak about assimilation I don't speak about compulsion, as some countries do. We bend over backwards to assist newcomers such as having instructions in government agencies printed in different languages, and having a broadcasting service which caters for other cultural interests, but it is obvious some ethnics don't share our values as a nation, their loyalties are elsewhere and this is unacceptable.

I'm not sure what you think of as free press is such a great idea, it is not impartial, just sensationalist.

Socialism is an idea that everyone in an economy has the right to enjoy the fruits of the economy, not just the wealthy or the privileged. Communism is something different, it is state control of everything, and it has been proven not to work in a modern economy. You have never been in an all out war with communism, just skermishs at the fringe, you were in an all out war with fascism, which may have had a socialist base. Keeping people subject for centuries was found in monarchy and empire, the closest thing we have to that in this age is not necessarily socialist, communist or capitalist, but found in all three.

What I say is what my government says; if you want to come here and stay we expect you to adopt our values, if you want to be a citizen you have to know what they are, and be capable of communicating with other citizens

What values should I be willing to adapt to?

Fairness, religious freedom of expression, mateship, looking after the less fortunate, rule of law, no violence in family situations, no compulsion, democratic representation, freedom to dress as you please, loyalty to the nation before loyalty to any foreign entity, religious or political. While these might be present in your society, they are not a part of the societies many migrants come from

I think if you broaden your perspective you would see that the vast majority of current and past migrants are peace loving people just trying to fit in and make a life. Some slip through the cracks with whatever issues, but the numbers pale when you consider that many more so called Americans commit mayhem than do migrants.

Sure you can blow up any incident and lay blame to INDIVIDUAL migrants, but would it not be fair to balance that by recognizing the positive actions that migrants contribute? That would at least be objective. The Dufus is disgusting when he highlights the bad behavior of one and assigns blame to all, that's the very definition of prejudice, red meat to his fellow racists and fear mongering fans. The very ones who ignore and fail to address the bad behavior amongst their own. That's the definition of racism.

I was hoping you had examples of whole populations of migrants who go against the rules, norms, or values of the country they migrate too. I think it's more accurate to acknowledge that good people have good values and bring them to wherever they go. I'm not saying all migrants are good, just saying they all are not bad. Not all Americans meet that same standard for sure in my own experience, and you probably could say the same for your own countrymen. Even The Dufus isn't ALL bad, but mostly! He sure says and does some awful things to others in the way of a lying, bully, racist.

You Aussies have a lot of upside already and GREAT future potential, for flawed humans. At the moment my own great nation is stuck in our own shat. Hopefully it's a temporary condition. That UN stunt leaves one wondering.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I think if you broaden your perspective you would see that the vast majority of current and past migrants are peace loving people just trying to fit in and make a life. Some slip through the cracks with whatever issues, but the numbers pale when you consider that many more so called Americans commit mayhem than do migrants.

Sure you can blow up any incident and lay blame to INDIVIDUAL migrants, but would it not be fair to balance that by recognizing the positive actions that migrants contribute? That would at least be objective. The Dufus is disgusting when he highlights the bad behavior of one and assigns blame to all, that's the very definition of prejudice, red meat to his fellow racists and fear mongering fans. The very ones who ignore and fail to address the bad behavior amongst their own. That's the definition of racism.

I was hoping you had examples of whole populations of migrants who go against the rules, norms, or values of the country they migrate too. I think it's more accurate to acknowledge that good people have good values and bring them to wherever they go. I'm not saying all migrants are good, just saying they all are not bad. Not all Americans meet that same standard for sure in my own experience, and you probably could say the same for your own countrymen. Even The Dufus isn't ALL bad, but mostly! He sure says and does some awful things to others in the way of a lying, bully, racist.

You Aussies have a lot of upside already and GREAT future potential, for flawed humans. At the moment my own great nation is stuck in our own shat. Hopefully it's a temporary condition. That UN stunt leaves one wondering.

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Sadly, Tal, the migrants seem to be the troublemakers, like the other day a group of Somali ran amok in Victoria. I'm sure we will find that the person who committed that atrocity in Melbourne yesterday was a migrant. You see we aussies aren't given to do such things, we would rather do something else.

I feel for you when the world stands up and shouts at you, but again you have the muslims and the fellow travellers doing the talking and really who cares what a bunch of nar do wells think, really. I remember well knowing a person from Burma, probably a rohingha, who told me of the jihad against Israel, you would have thought he had more problems to solve

You must'nt think of us as any more flawed than yourselves, the fact is we have, for the most part, an idyllic existence. The peace is sometimes times broken by idiotic acts of broken individuals

I don't think of Australians as anymore, or any less flawed than the US, or anyone else for that matter. For all the headlines and events though there is nowhere I would rather be and grateful for a very good life myself. On that note a blessed holiday season to you, and yours my Aussie friend, and to the AMHD family that has brought somuch joy into my life.

THANKS.

Yes, Tal, the very best, sorry I wasn't around at Christmas, visiting family, my tablet wouldn't allow me to log in, but a great New Year to you all.

I think there will be some jousting to do in the New Year, or at least tilting at windmills

It is unbelievable, the saga starts again, with a Labor resignation of a senior rep who just can't prove he is not a dual citizen, and Labor will refer some Liberal Halocaost family survivors in the hope of catching a sprat, or a mackerel. Shorten can't afford to fight several by-elections and it looks like he might have too. The Libs are going to stand back in the next one, and let Labor be mauled by the Greens as they fight it out in Melbourne suburbia, the Green heartland. As this by-election goes so might go Shorten

You would think that being under question as to citizenship and successfully resolving that in a by-election was enough, the deputy Prime Minister, Barnaby Joyce has proven he can't keep it in his pants and had it off with a staffer, impregnating said lady. Now he has been censured for his behaviour, causing the prime Minister to change rules and make it a sackable offence for any minister to behave in like manner, bringing the government into disrepute and so forth. However the big ego that is Barnaby isn't going to take it and now having been forced to step down as acting Prime Minister he may decide to break the coalition agreement, cross the floor and vote with the opposition effectively kicking an own goal and handing government to Labor. These country boys just don't know the rules of polite society

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-1...rattan/9454006

You guy's have scandals? How quaint that underneath the well heeled veneer Australians have the same foibles as ordinary citizens. Of course everyone knows you can put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

You guy's have scandals? How quaint that underneath the well heeled veneer Australians have the same foibles as ordinary citizens. Of course everyone knows you can put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig.

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How inciteful of you Tal, but you are right Barnaby is a pig someone put lipstick on. Our citizens, and politicians, usually keep their predelictions private, we are not as outgoing about sex as the americans, but sexual harassment in the workplace is just as hot a topic here as there. We hold our politicians to a high standard so cavorting in the office space is fround upon. Back in 1975 another famous case of minister and staffer was one of the nails in the coffin of the infamous Whitlam government

Things have gone worse fro Barnaby he has been lampooned by John Oliver

John Oliver on Barnaby Joyce: Last Week Tonight

I think they have nailed the coffin shut

Poor old Barnaby has gone, a victim of his own actions. We take in these KIWI and they revert to their ways

https://media.scribblelive.com/2018/...7658ecedef.mp4

We put up with weeks of grandstanding in the by-election and all the while Barnaby wasn't who he said he is, and now he can join his mate Tony on the backbench for a little or a lot of caaarping

The High Court has just thrown another Senator out of parliament and the Government is favoured by the heads of four reps. If we get rid of this lot the Government might be able to get past some of the obstructionism and give the big end of town a tax cut. However By-elections are dangerous territory as they act as a referendum on government policy and you can't allow the punters to comment of what you are doing, particularly after a budget showing some new directions, and a lack of care for the unemployed