Wow, this topic exploded, since my last post I've been hearing a lot about this on the news. It seems to come down to the fact that he directed the comments against individuals, there have been many examples stated of other radio hosts that use this kind of language directed at many different ethnicities but because he said this about a very small group of people that's where the outrage is coming from.

For instance, this language is used by rappers etc all the time but no one cares but because he insulted such a small team so directly a lot of people won't stand it.

Did anyone see AC360 about this last night?

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Originally Posted by manimuth

Why is the "N" word ok in rap songs but horrendous in social use?

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Hello man:

I don't think the "N" word IS horrendous in black social circles. I think they call each other that ALL the time. THAT was my point.

You must be a white manimuth.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

I don't think the "N" word IS horrendous in black social circles. I think they call each other that ALL the time. THAT was my point.

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I think that is where some confusion comes from. You hear people saying things like that about their own race and it's precevied o.k.
So, another group picks it up and holy crap, the bottom just fell out. So the lines get blurred on what is acceptable and what is not.

When that whole Michael Richards thing happened at the comedy club - there was a call for people - of all colors - to stop using the "N" word. I wish that would be picked up more. Just stop using known words that breed hate and anger.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

You must be a white manimuth.

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Sir, I don't think that has anything to do with this.

Although I know that the "N" word is an often accepted part of black language, my point is that there is a disconnect between what is accepted in society and what art portrays. Because, rap music is a part of OUR entire society, not just black society. All races listen to the music and, in fact, most rap albums are bought by young whites. BUT, the use of the "N" word is NOT a reflection of the society that listens to it- only a part of society that is somehow "allowed" to use it. And so, there's the disconnect. (and the hypocrisy.)
The excuse for the use of the words "b***hes" and "hoes" in rap music, that is heard by everyone in society, is that those words are regularly used against women in the black social environment? That is not only wrong but hypocritical, especially when there is outrage when a white man uses the same language. That was a point of the column and that is why I liked it.

The “N” word is not the only thing I talked about in my posts. What I wanted to point out is that it is not right to sum up art as: "a reflection of society". Because it isn't always that simple. Because if art ALWAYS reflected society, then society wouldn't be so surprised and outraged when one imitates art. There is more to this issue than just art as a reflection of society. There is hypocrisy, many underlying issues of racism in our country, profit and rating,. these are just some of the issues involved in everything we're talking about on this thread. I also said that the problem does NOT end with blaming “artists”

P.S. I am neither white nor a man. :)

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Ruby Dear:

My day?? I'm not that old.

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Ah, my dear, but you are. When you say such things as, "When I was a kid, they told me rock and roll was bad." Of course, you are only as old as you feel, but when you state something like this, well, all I can say is, when parents told children that, it was nigh on close to 60 years ago honey.


I have to agree with manimuth's and nowwhat's responses to you on the other statements made. Regarding the "N" word in black circles, you are right, but that is where the problem lies. It needs to stop. As long as black people keep putting each other down in that way, white people view it as tacit acceptance of such language. It is not acceptable to call ANYONE something with such a derogatory connotation connected to it.

Lowtax, I never saw the program last night. I am sorry I missed it. I like AC360. Maybe you could give us a recap of the program if you have the time.

Hello again, man:

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Originally Posted by manimuth

BUT, the use of the "N" word is NOT a reflection of the society that listens to it- only a part of society that is somehow "allowed" to use it

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I beg to disagree, and I don’t know what you mean by “allowed”.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manimuth

Because if art ALWAYS reflected society, then society wouldn't be so surprised and outraged when one imitates art.

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I disagree again. If society does something (which I maintain they do), then artists depict it (which I maintain they do), and society KEEPS on doing something , only people like you will say that they’re imitating art, when in fact, they’re doing what the art was based on.

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Originally Posted by manimuth

P.S. I am neither white nor a man.

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Then you’re a humorless non white female.

excon

excon, manimuth is not humorless (and In my opinion is an asset to this web site). I would appreciate it if you are inclined to personal attacks that are completely baseless and are knee jerk reactions to someone disagreeing with you, that you limit yourself to attacking me, since I am the one who started this thread, and I welcome such irresponsible antics from you. En garde mon ami!

Ok, excon. We seem to go around in circles. I am not disagreeing with you... only pointing out the hypocrisy in the relationship between art and society. It is not a very simple relationship and not everything about art can be excused as "reflection of society".

Anyway,
I don't have the energy to go back and forth so will bow away now.

It's not fair to call me "a humorless non white female" because if you knew me, you would think I was very much full of humor :P

Have a nice day and see you around, excon :)

Thanks for your support Ruby.
You have a wonderful thread here; chock full of material that we should be talking about.
:)

Hello again:

Yer cool with me, man. You, Rubydooby, are another matter. Put 'em up.

excon

I pee on your leg.

Good Topic Ruby.

Let me first say that I do not care for Al Sharpton. When he appears at the time of any civil rights issue he makes it worse rahter then better as far as I'm concerned. Who the hell appointed him spoke person for African Americans. I wish people would stop assuming he speaks for the majority. HE DOES NOT!

As far as anus (aka Imus) is concerned, his comments were beyond RUDE and OFFENSIVE. His comments were both racist and sexist. My question is where the heck is the organization called N.O.W. do they not address sexist issues that deal with African American women. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Has anyone heard from them? Those women did not deserve to be called hoes or nappy headed anything for that matter. I am not aware of any parent that would be please with someone calling their daughter a ho on a national radio show, and not cause a stink about it.
I heard the replay of his comments and he was clearly laughing. Yes he apologizes.. goody goody gum drops. I guess he is going to rehab as well. I hope they make sure to seat him aware from the dude from Gray's Anatomy (made rude homosexual comment). We have become a society where people do not have to pay for the consequences of their actions,yet they are rewarded with press time and money. Yes Glenn is correct in one part, that there is freedom of speech. BUT that freedom has its limits. Ex. You can not yell fire in a crowded movie if there is no fire. Please feel free to review previous US Supreme Court decisions on freedom of speech. Also, the radio stations personalities are not free to say what ever they want; they have limits to what they can say or even do. So I do not agree with Glenn Beck that he(Imus) has freedom of speech.
Imus also goes on to say that people in the African American community and music artist uses those terms, so how can they scream foul. Give me a break. 1. African American civil rights leaders have been protesting the use of those terms in hip hop music for years. But it doesn't get air time because it’s not salacious/violent enough. 2. Not everybody in that community agrees or even approves of the use of those terms. You have to remember we live in a diverse country as well as community. These individuals that are so often called African America solely based on their skin color;are also South Americans, Africans, Caribbean and some Europeans. Are we suggesting that everyone approves.
Imus should be fired just as everyone else before him who has made similar comments. My last point is that many people associate with people of different backgrounds on a daily or periodic basis, (work, social events, fund raiser, RANCHES) it doesn’t mean they like them.

Gg, actually, NOW has been vocal about this. I read some articles about them calling for Imus to be fired. Unfortunately, Al Sharpton and others have drowned them out. I don't know if NOW really was as vocal as they should have been. I think this is attributable to the leaders of that organization, and their own personal agendas. It is a shame. They are a much more credible organization than Sharpton and his cronies are.

But, in the end, it seems that Imus is definitely paying the price for his "humor."

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

But, in the end, it seems that Imus is definitely paying the price for his "humor."

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Yes, but I'm afraid that Al Sharpton will chalk this one up as another "win" for himself, since the network was under a lot of pressure from the media hooplah created by Sharpton. I'd rather that the punishment came quick and swift and credited to all of us; not to Sharpton's big mouth, but as always, his big mouth did the job!

Yes, manimuth, I agree with you on that.

Here is something I read today and found it rather amusing:

AOL's Jason Whitlock- Time for Jackson, Sharpton to Step Down - AOL Sports

karent23 that website was good reading. I completely agree with the article. Quote:
The Rutgers players are nothing more than pawns in a game being played by Jackson, Sharpton and Stringer. Unquote. African American should protest against the both of those self serving jerks.

Interesting article karen. Kind of repeats and adds onto Powell's article in Newsday. I think Whitlock has a good point. The problem is no one can stop these guys. They are and always have been, intent on promoting themselves. No amount of bad press or bad decisions on their part seems to shut them down.

I have just seen Al Sharpton just take a side because of race no matter the facts, So honestly just him taking a side normally makes me thing automatically that he is wrong. In my personal opinon he is the worst example of what the equal rights movement is suppose to be and would most certainly be a disgrace to the real heroes like ML King.

I believe some of his causes have done a lot of good but often it is in spite of him.

Anytime individuals such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharton get involved in an issue dealing with race... people automatically assume it is not legit and that it's just another complaining.
I agree that both Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are a disgrace to the civil rights movement. They should not even go down in history as being part of it. The only movement they have been a part of is the self interest movement. The Rutgers women basketball team has a legitimate grip and they should have confronted Imus. When Al Sharpton got involved it turned the issue into media circus. The issue lost legitimacy.

I think Imus is a stupid S.O.B. for saying something like he did about the girls. But I wonder how many of these girls watch Cris Rock and laugh when he uses the N word and every other word out of his mouth is F**K or Motherf**ker. And Chris is one of Oprah's best friends.

Or if they watch a MTV video or listen to some of that rap out there that is violent towards women.

Now don't go using the B word letmetellu... That's part of the problem in the rap songs we're talking about!! ;)

We are a society that promotes and glorifies TRASH. Then we look puzzled when our kids start using bad words and then we are even more confused when these kids grown up to be adults that use those trashy words. Say something nice you get nothing. Say something nasty and they will pay you to put on a CD. We have become a society that subscribes to filth.

Again I don't agree with Imus and what he said, but people of all races should realize that he is a comic and that is the way he makes his living the same as many other comics that make remarks about all different races. I made the remarks earlier about Chris Rock and his language at his shows. I think it is deplorable, I se nothing funny about it, and still as he is telling his black jokes and down grading the black race, men and women, there is a large crowd that can not get their breaths because they are laughing so hard. Yet if I used the N word to one of the people at the show they would put me down in every way that they could think of, I was not the one that made the N word a bad word, in fact when I was young I thought I was doing a black friend a favor because I called him the N word instead of a negro because we both thought that negro was a negative way to refer to black people. I am not ashamed to be in a crowd that uses the N word and still I really don't understand why. Please don't cuss me out but I would like to ask someone exactly why and when did it become the most hated word in the english language?

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Originally Posted by letmetellu

Please don't cuss me out but I would like to ask someone exactly why and when did it become the most hated word in the english language?

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I would suggest getting this book; Strange Career of a Troublesome Word. It will explain how this word became so vilified.

Well, Imus is off the air - for now anyway. CBS and MSNBC have pulled the plug.
I would be willing to bet that satellite radio will pick him up next week.

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

I would be willing to bet that satelite radio will pick him up next week.

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Hello again:

I don't think so. Sirius and XM are trying to merge and are awaiting SEC approval. Hiring Imus wouldn't help that process. Poor racist - his timing is just bad.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Poor racist - his timiing is just bad.

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THis made me laugh.:p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Sirius and XM are trying to merge and are awaiting SEC approval. Hiring Imus wouldn't help that process.

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Yep. They won't touch this with a 10 ft. pole because they have to avoid any controversy.
So, Imus is out of a job for the first time in 30 years.

Do you think his career is over?

Not at all a "freedom of speech thing" in any sense whatsoever.

You could get fired for wearing flip-flops and a tutu to work. Working is not an absolute right. Sponsors pulled probably due to public pressure, domino effect, canned imus for dinner. Extreme? Sure. Maybe. no. that's for the sponsors to decide and his employers.

How is this different than when jimmy the greek was canned a decade or so ago for stating that black athletes were stronger and faster because slaves were "bred" to be that way? It was the same kind of situation, just more civilized talk. He said a dumb thing in the media spotlight. Poof. Bye-bye paycheck.

Imus has not lost his freedom of speech. I'm free to whistle dixie out my nose. Doesn't mean I'm guaranteed to get and keep a job. Though id bet you'd be in a niche market as a flip-flopped, tutu wearing, nose whistler.

Employeers can dictate a lot more than PC speech from their employees.

Sharpton is a clown. The media loves clowns. Made for each other. If imus had been talking about the mens lacrosse team accused of rape and called them a bunch of "punk-a$$ white bread crackers" where would the public uproar be?

Is punk-a$$ hyphenated?

Anyway... I do, however, agree with what fr chuck said. He's probably done some good too, I imagine, just by being in the spotlight. Lets face it... having this debate isn't necessarily a bad thing, and sharpton helped bring it forward. But he's still a sleaze. I hate to say bad words about a guy who's in bad shape, but even the governor (who was critically hurt on the way to mediate the meeting between the rutgers team and imus)... what the hell? Why does the governor need to step in and mediate? Really? Political grandstanding all over the place.

I do completely disagree with the notion that some words should be fine for one group to use but not another. N-word of course the prime suspect. If you propagate it, and use it to make money (rap, etc) can you really make a logical argument about how some can use it while others cannot?

I understand the reflex. My daughter, half latino, knows there are some words said in her latino circle that are fine within the circle... but probably not outside. She has asian friends who call dressing up their cars the way the do "ricing" the car... again, within the circle, its "fine"...

Well, OK. Whatever. Yes, we need some common sense in our public officials (theoretically) but if you use crap language you shouldn't be "scared for life" (as one player mentioned) when that crap language comes back around.

In a situation like this, where just about everybody is stupid as a wad o gum, my wife and I ask each other if they are playing "I & A". Which is short for a game called Idiots and A$$holes... you get to decide who's being the I and the a... sometimes people are both.

Maybe matel would let me market that game?

Kp, I wish I could rate you for that little speech. You would get a big thumbs up from me.

I do believe, with time, when sirius and xm have managed to do what they want to do, and enough time has passed, Imus will be back, if all this hullabaloo hasn't killed him first.
He has been fired before. This will all be a bad memory in another 6 months to a years time.

I heard there was an article in today's Wall Street Journal, that talked about how Imus met his downfall. Apparently there is a media monitoring group that monitors all broadcasts. They were the ones who first reported the gaffe and started posting e-mails about what should be done. It wasn't until some black journalists started an outcry that Sharpton picked it up.

Hmmm. Very interesting Scott. Most of us who have followed the careers of Imus and Stern, know that the FCC and any monitoring groups have been looking for any and every opportunity to really grind both of them into the concrete. I guess they finally found it with Imus. Now, they can be free to turn their full attention onto Stern. What fun!

An off-topic question (kind of). Does the FCC regulate satellite radio? I wasn't sure. I thought that was why stern went with Sirrus. So he could say whatever he wanted.
Is it different when you are paying for the service? Like cable TV?
Just wondering.

I don't think sirus abides by the same standards... it's like paying for HBO.

I believe karen is correct. So, the bottom line would be that we, the paying audience are the ones that would have a say in content. If we are upset and cancel subscriptions, then it would have the same effect that Imus's sponsers are having now.

But, you can bet anything that the FCC and all these regulatory agencies are monitoring content. If what ScottGem stated is true, they will just find ways around the new system. They will feed what they have heard, to anyone and everyone willing to make a lot of noise, such as the great Rev Sharpton.