Yes, it takes a village, your children are not your children, etc. etc.
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Yes, it takes a village, your children are not your children, etc. etc.
This a comment/analogy that one of the reader's of that Chicago Tribune article (from speech's post) submitted. He made an error in that he should have referred to being "taxed" instead of "fined", to satisfy the supremes.
His comment:
(Quote) The U.S. government has just passed a new law called: "The affordable boat act" declaring that every citizen MUST purchase a new boat, by April 2014. These "affordable" boats will cost an average of $54,000-$155,000 each. This does not include taxes, trailers, towing fees, licensing and registration fees, fuel, docking and storage fees, maintenance or repair costs.
This law has been passed, because until now, typically only wealthy and financially responsible people have been able to purchase boats. This new laws ensures that every American can now have an "affordable" boat of their own, because everyone is "entitled" to a new boat. If you purchase your boat before the end of the year, you will receive 4 "free" life jackets; not including monthly usage fees.
In order to make sure everyone purchases an affordable boat, the costs of owning a boat will increase on average of 250-400% per year. This way, wealthy people will pay more for something that other people don't want or can't afford to maintain. But to be fair, people who can’t afford to maintain their boat will be regularly fined and children (under the age of 26) can use their parent’s boats to party on until they turn 27; then must purchase their own boat.
If you already have a boat, you can keep yours (just kidding; no you can't). If you don't want or don't need a boat, you are required to buy one anyhow. If you refuse to buy one or can’t afford one, you will be regularly fined $800 until you purchase one or face imprisonment.
Failure to use the boat will also result in fines. People living in the desert; ghettos; inner cities or areas with no access to lakes are not exempt. Age, motion sickness, experience, knowledge nor lack of desire are acceptable excuses for not using your boat.
A government review board (that doesn't know the difference between the port, starboard or stern of a boat) will decide everything, including; when, where, how often and for what purposes you can use your boat along with how many people can ride your boat and determine if one is too old or healthy enough to be able to use their boat. They will also decide if your boat has out lived its usefulness or if you must purchase specific accessories, (like a $500 compass) or a newer and more expensive boat.
Those that can afford yachts will be required to do so...it’s only fair. The government will also decide the name for each boat. Failure to comply with these rules will result in fines and possible imprisonment.
Government officials are exempt from this new law. If they want a boat, they and their families can obtain boats free, at the expense of tax payers. Unions, bankers and mega companies with large political affiliations ($$$) are also exempt.
If the government can force you to buy health care, they can force you to buy a boat....or ANYTHING else...
Yea...it's that stupid... (End Quote)
The only answer is for the government to simply give every citizen a boat whether they want one or not = Medicare for All, aka Single Payer. I know I'll be called a conspiracy theory nut but I can't get off the theory that the plan (after they knew they couldn't get single payer passed) was to accept whatever they could get out of the ACA bill, knowing it would create chaos. When half the citizens are deluging their reps phone lines, a few months before 2014 elections, will they cave and pass single payer at lightning speed?
Very droll smearcase, the ACA, like much of legislation, is a camel and you can have one hump or two but you must own a camel and give up breeding horses, Failure to feed your camel will result in fines and every member of your family may ride on your camel. A word of warning, camels are cantankerous beasts and have been known to bite and spit
Ah the holidays, time to enjoy fun, food, family, fellowship and if you're so inclined, football. And prepared talking points from your crazy liberal uncle courtesy of Obama's Organizing For America.
Just like the creepy cult they are they want you to "Pledge to have the talk." Apparently we should all stop being thankful for trivial things like heat, food, family and friends, we should be thankful for mandates, higher premiums, higher deductibles, higher copays, fewer provider choices, our new formerly full time job and being pushed onto the exchanges where we can shop on a non-functional website that may or not allow you to compare prices, give a subsidy you may lose and if you get that far, send un-garbled info to the insurance company.
Instead of bringing your green bean casserole be sure and bring your packing list:
Of course, I would never think of going to a family gathering without my SS number, a check stub and my last W-2.Quote:
Are your family members traveling home for the holidays? There are a few things they’ll need to sign up for health coverage. Make sure they bring the following items with them before they head home.
PACKING LIST
In order to shop on the new health insurance marketplace, you’ll need to have a few basic pieces of information with you:
1. Your Social Security Number
2. Information about your employer and income— either a pay stub or a copy of your most recent W-2 tax form
3. If you currently have health insurance, you’ll need your health insurance card or paperwork that includes a health policy number
Furthermore, forget the pumpkin pie, be ready for the discount double check:
And before you get started be prepared to catch a turkey leg across your jaw, because if anyone takes this regime's advice to spoil my Thanksgiving I'm going to make certain they won't be able to open their mouth again until after Christmas.Quote:
DOUBLE CHECK
Here are some common things to think about before getting started:
1. Your budget: What is your budget? How much can you afford to pay each month for health coverage?
2. Existing insurance: Is health insurance currently offered through your job?
3.Current costs: If you do currently have coverage, what are your costs?
4.Coverage Goals: What kind of coverage are you looking for? There are lots of options based on what you want and how much you want to pay.
Hello again, Steve:
I dunno what you're saying, but it sounds like you don't think people should examine their health insurance options.
Really?
excon
I'm saying what you would have said before Obama, leave us the hell alone. Can we not enjoy a Thanksgiving dinner without you trying to insert your creepy propaganda? I mean really ex, this is beyond the pale, I don't need any freaking government nanny and I am appalled by the arrogance it takes to put something like this out. I am fed up with Obama and his minions trying to invade every aspect of my life. In short, if it comes up at my house I have 3 words, go screw yourself. But I won't be that nice about it. Just say Happy Thanksgiving instead and shut the hell up.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, Steve:
So, your family has to walk on eggshells over the holiday??? That ain't good. Stop being so grumpy. In MY house, we talk about EVERYTHING.Quote:
In short, if it comes up at my house I have 3 words, go screw yourself. But I won't be that nice about it. Just say Happy Thanksgiving instead and shut the hell up.
Happy Thanksgiving.
excon
If you want to have the talk be my guest. If you try and push your creepy spoon-fed talking points in MY house on Thanksgiving be prepared to have a turkey leg crammed down your throat, with love.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Happy Thanksgiving.
P.S. With the current popularity of Obamacare I personally would never have asked people to push it at Thanksgiving, but not you lefties, you really want to push people's buttons about it.
Here's Every Argument You'll Need To Win Your Obamacare Debate This Thanksgiving
How To Pick a Fight With Your Relatives This Thanksgiving
How about health care for Thanksgiving?
Hello again, Steve:
You should know that I don't carry water for anybody... You should ALSO know that MY talking points, ALL ALONG, have been, let's wait to see how it shakes out. Certainly, it's MUCH too early to assess it. It's not even been fully implemented yet... Maybe it'll fail. Maybe it won't. But, the front door isn't even open yet.Quote:
If you try and push your creepy spoon-fed talking points in MY house
Therefore, at THIS time, it's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to tell if it's gonna work or not. Nobody knows. That includes right and/or left wingers on the radio, internet, or TV. You certainly aren't a good source of accurate information.. You still think there are death panels.
excon
As if arguing on things I haven't said makes you a good source? I'll put my accuracy up against this lying regime's any day, so I'd be careful while talking about good sources of information on a scheme that was sold on a belly full of lies. I'm willing to let it fall flat, but I'll be damned if I ever ask people to push this kind of bullsh*t at the Thanksgiving table. That's the problem with Obama and the Obots, they think it's all about them and to have the audacity to exploit such a special time to have us do their bidding is breathtaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, Steve:
If you had a relative who needed coverage because he was SICK, helping him GET insurance, so he can GET treated, is a GOOD thing. Even if your relative ISN'T sick, but STILL needs health insurance, HELPING him get it IS a good thing.Quote:
I'll be damned if I ever ask people to push this kind of bullsh*t at the Thanksgiving table.
I dunno WHY you wouldn't have the audacity to do that.
excon
Obviously you can't tell the difference between pushing propaganda, being prepared to "win Your Obamacare Debate This Thanksgiving", learning "How To Pick a Fight With Your Relatives" - and being genuinely helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
This is not about helping your uncle so you can stop pretending it is.
Have we concluded that the ACA isn't about helping people but about gaining political advantageQuote:
This is not about helping your uncle so you can stop pretending it is
It was never about helping people.
No we haven't. The numbers of those being helped is growing. There are many that have already been helped. Political advantage will be gained by success. maybe one person at a time.Quote:
Have we concluded that the ACA isn't about helping people but about gaining political advantage
And how many losers did you create to help those few? The whole thing was based on a throwaway campaign line, sold on lies, built on lies, executed on lies and incompetence and now they want us to pick a fight with our family at Thanksgiving because they're worried it might hurt their election chances. What part of that is about helping people?
I think this sums it up rather well from the Huffpost.
Talking point: The president broke his promise and now millions have lost their insurance plans. Cite a friend or somebody you know who got a cancellation notice. If you don't know anybody, pretend you do or use Edie Sundby.
The whole thing is pretend. Lets pass it and Pretend we have insurance. Lets Pretend we can keep our doctors. Lets Pretend our premiums arent going up.
This has to end or everyone will be on Pretend unemployment.
Absolutely cdad, greenie. I think all the good Obots should take the talking points hint and offer to walk them through picking a plan. Together they can pretend the website works and pretend they bought insurance.
next year 80 million more people will lose the insurance they were assured they can keep. This will happen when the employer mandate goes into effect.
I'm glad we have someone who can predict the future Tom saves us thinking about it
If that 80 million is correct (assuming that includes their spouses and 1.8 children), and they enroll in the ACA plans and you add in 62 million (probably way low estimate now) Medicaid folks, 49 million Medicare recipients, 8 million government workers most of whom have govt. sponsored healthcare, plus government retirees not yet in Medicare, etc- a total of at least 200 million on government care.
The savings government can then realize by dumping insurance companies and their 20% overhead (yes the additional govt employees needed will reduce the savings), by going to single payer will be a no brainer.
just reporting the administrations own estimates .....
Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable To Keep Their Health Plans Under Obamacare - ForbesQuote:
The Departments' mid-range estimate is that 66 percent of small employer plans and 45 percent of large employer plans will relinquish their grandfather status by the end of 2013,” wrote the administration on page 34,552 of the Register. All in all, more than half of employer-sponsored plans will lose their “grandfather status” and become illegal. According to the Congressional Budget Office, 156 million Americans—more than half the population—was covered by employer-sponsored insurance in 2013.
Avik Roy of Forbes writes that he got these estimates right out of the Federal Register .
Robert Samuelson of the Washington Compost goes conservative in his estimate and says the people who will lose their insurance who get theirs from their employer will be 25-50 million people ...mostly from small firms.
Obama's Lie About Letting People Keep Insurance Was Worse Than Expected - Investors.com
at last, some common sense, and won't premiums come down for the rest once insurance companies realise they are under threat? It is flawed logic to think the private sector can provide public health initiativesQuote:
If that 80 million is correct (assuming that includes their spouses and 1.8 children), and they enroll in the ACA plans and you add in 62 million (probably way low estimate now) Medicaid folks, 49 million Medicare recipients, 8 million government workers most of whom have govt. sponsored healthcare, plus government retirees not yet in Medicare, etc- a total of at least 200 million on government care.
The savings government can then realize by dumping insurance companies and their 20% overhead (yes the additional govt employees needed will reduce the savings), by going to single payer will be a no brainer.
No premiums wont come down. They are going to go sky high. And if you dont pay the government can take it from you directly. Not sure how insurance works in your country but here there is a pool of money that is set by the government to offset any liability incurred. That pool varies in size depending on risk. By the government forcing insurance to take on high risk that pool of money has to increase to meet the mandate. So its not going to get any cheaper soon.
There is full seperation of public and private provision of services. Government does subsidise some health insurance but maintains control over premiums. We have a system where every individual can obtain basic health care and receive a benefit from the government to pay for or offset at least in part the costs. Doctors can opt to accept payment directly from the government or charge the patient and allow the patient to recoup the benefit from the government or a hybrid arrangement of a co-payment. Beyond that individuals may have health insurance which is mainly directed at hospital costs and ancilliary services. The government regulates the cost of pharmeuticals. The health insurers offer various policies which have various exclusions and benefits. I have noted that there are wide discrepancies in the costs of coverQuote:
No premiums wont come down. They are going to go sky high. And if you dont pay the government can take it from you directly. Not sure how insurance works in your country but here there is a pool of money that is set by the government to offset any liability incurred. That pool varies in size depending on risk. By the government forcing insurance to take on high risk that pool of money has to increase to meet the mandate. So its not going to get any cheaper soon.
No sir, premiums will not go up and people with employer based insurance won't lose it.
Good Grief… Woman From WH Obamacare Ad Forced to Drop Health Insurance for Employees (Video) | The Gateway Pundit
But hey, she still believes in obamacare. Not so sure her employees do.
As a small business she wasn't affected by Obama Care, but she has options under the ACA against rising costs which she was having before the ACA.Quote:
When Anthem told Clark premiums for her eight employees would go up 39 percent in 2014, she checked out the plans available through the Small Business Health Options Program, where companies with fewer than 50 employees can shop for group coverage. Those plans were less expensive, but would still increase Clark’s premiums by 14 percent.
Clark then compared the price of individual policies available at Healthcare.gov to what she currently offers. She figured she could save 13 percent, or about $15,000, by discontinuing her group plan. She told her employees to pick a policy offered on the marketplace, and she’ll increase their pay to cover half the cost of the premiums.
39% to 14%, but she solved the problem by letting the employees get their own insurance and paying half with a raise. People before profits. I don't know the salary ranges, but maybe an additional subsidy is also in the mix.Quote:
She’s always offered health insurance to employees and their families, even as premiums increased by double digits every year.
“We’ve turned down the heat, the lights,” she says. “But we never, ever took health care off the table.
Until now.
When Anthem told Clark premiums for her eight employees would go up 39 percent in 2014, she checked out the plans available through the Small Business Health Options Program, where companies with fewer than 50 employees can shop for group coverage. Those plans were less expensive, but would still increase Clark’s premiums by 14 percent.
We don't know right now but by her doing her homework and keeping her employees in mind she found a way to mitigate the increases by the insurance companies.
You keep forgetting the for profit insurance company's set prices, not government, and its whatever the market will bear, and like everything else the costs go up. Funny how that's been happening for decades but now you are pissed.
Nobody bothered to get that side of the story, so in fact we don't have the whole story, just the part you want to spin the negatives. That makes your spin inconclusive.Quote:
Not so sure her employees do.
Tal, get your head out of the sand.
Sorry Speech that's a non reply. All I want to hear is the rest of the story. If you can't deliver that, you got nothing.
Tal, the story is the lady in the Obamacare ad being priced out of providing insurance for her employees. The rest is me wondering if her employees still support obamacare as she does. I made no conclusion one way or another on that, but I'm guessing they would rather not be tossed into the exchange like so many more will be thanks to this ill conceived law.
Don't assume, and the changes are inevitable in many cases but a raise and covering half the costs whatever they are can't make workers mad. I have been asking that question and been ignored so far, but if your boss cuts your benefits, does he have to compensate you for the loss?
Glad we both agree single payer is the way to go because then if you get laid off or fired you don't lose your health insurance too.
It is so obvious I can't think why it hasn't occured to anyone until now and best of all it cuts out the profit taking middle manQuote:
Glad we both agree single payer is the way to go because then if you get laid off or fired you don't lose your health insurance too.
blah blah blah. The Dems talk a good game about single payer ;but they never put that proposal on the floor .
What's the point in it, when we know we don't have the votes we compromise a solution. Yes dems did compromise with repubs and I have documented the amendments with a link.
What you don't admit or even realise Tom is that it is a solution that works. Everyone plays by the same rules, the costs are known and uniformQuote:
blah blah blah. The Dems talk a good game about single payer ;but they never put that proposal on the floor .
in your dream .Almost half the people here pay no effective income tax . So you over tax half the population to give freebees. So much for your 'Everyone plays by the same rules' lie.
I will never agree your ideas of single payer is the way.
Half the large companies and the rich don't pay taxes either. At least the poor have an excuse, they ain't got enough money to tax. But I know, righties think rich guys shouldn't pay taxes, but the poor should. That's pretty screwed up but understandable for those that worship the dollar and value profits over people.Quote:
in your dream .Almost half the people here pay no effective income tax . So you over tax half the population to give freebees. So much for your 'Everyone plays by the same rules' lie.
This is America, we don't have to agree.Quote:
I will never agree your ideas of single payer is the way.
Let's divorce the income tax questions from the health care questions since the level of income tax is not a valid argument against it.
The people pay the amount of tax appropriate to their circumstance according to existing laws. Some part of that tax might be used to finance health care. It is apparent that it is also financed by impositions made on employers as well as personal contributions.
the provision of health care through insurance is neither a reason for increased taxation or a reason for exclusion of parts of the population by reason of income or circumstance.
according to your theorm, only taxpayers are entitled to participate in government benefits, so therefore citizenship means nothing
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