Or maybe we should be checked early so we don't get to discovering we have a disease when its already in the critical stages. Better outcomes from screening and prevention.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
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Or maybe we should be checked early so we don't get to discovering we have a disease when its already in the critical stages. Better outcomes from screening and prevention.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
So instead the socialists want the THOUSANDS of new Government employees to be pocketing that instead... while returning no return of investment? YOu don't actually believe the people with the real jobs are going to keep any of it? Its coing to cost a lot more for a lot less coverage... and you have the word of an actual Health care professional proving that's the case...Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Well that ties in nicely with my point about liability and tort reform.the reason extra tests are recommended is CYAQuote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
.. and extracting as much money as possible from the client.Quote:
the reason extra tests are recommended is CYA
Naw... but that is EXACTLY wha tObamacare accomplishes. Extract much MORE money and deliver far less in return for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
LolQuote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
The list was compiled by groups such as the American Academy of Family Physicians; the American Academy of Hospice and Palliative Medicine; the American Academy of Pediatrics; the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology; the American Urological Association; and the Society of Thoracic Surgeons.
Yes of course all these doctor associations would be compiling a list of unnecessary procedures to extract as much money from their clients. You would think that they would be promoting the benefits of the procedures if it was a money making scheme.
Far less indeed. Fewer nurses with higher patient census. It's going by numbers now versus how sick the patients are. Seven patients to one nurse may not seem like a lot to you, but it's astronomical when the patient level of acuity is ignored in favor of numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Your ER wait times will increase because the ER will become a clinic for headaches and flus and colds. Why? Because many competent doctors will opt out of taking patients with Islamacare.
But proponents say it will reduce ER wait times because people will go to their doctor now that they have insurance. So when they can't get off work, can't afford to take time off work, can't get an appointment with their doctor because of his increased case load, etc. etc. where will they go? If you said the ER step to the front of the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Visits to ER rise despite health law
maybe Hitlercare? Or GasOvensCare? Or IranCare? Or ScientologyCare? Or Muslimcare?Quote:
Islamacare
LOL!
Washington DC has lost half of its Primary Care Physiicians in the last few years... and I have ZERO doubt its happening many other places as well. At some point the trouble and the cost vs. pay will hit a point its no longer desirable or economically feasible to continue to practice medicine.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
I don't think a lot of people actually understand how much it costs to keep even a small medical practice open... much less a hospital... or they must actually believe people are going to attend medical school... and all the costs, time and work involved... (and not just for the Doctors) just to work for free.
Doctors are not required to take patients covered by Islamacare. Therefore, many people covered by this insurance will find themselves with no primary healthcare provider, thus the ER will become their primary healthcare provider.
Here in TN, we have a similar insurance plan, or did until it stopped covering many people, TennCare. I've already seen the damage this kind of insurance can inflict.
That's the way it went down with Romneycare .
The Doctor Is Out: Young Talent Is Turning Away From Primary Care - John Henning Schumann - The AtlanticQuote:
To understand how difficult it will be to find a primary care doctor in two years, look no further than Massachusetts. In 2006 the state passed a health care law mandating that everyone obtain insurance (sound familiar?). For those unable to afford the cost, subsidies were made available.
Within weeks, the "uninsurance" rate in Massachusetts dropped precipitously. Commensurate with that was a rise in both the number of "closed" office practices and the length of time it took to get a new patient appointment. Nearly six years after the law passed, more than half of the family practice and internal medicine offices in the state are closed to new patients. According to the Massachusetts Medical Society, the average wait for a new patient to be seen by an internist is 48 days. Turns out insurance doesn't guarantee access after all.
Speaking of fact checks, AP finally decided to do some the day before Zerocare takes effect.
But I'm sure everyone is just going to LOVE it!Quote:
OBAMA: "Knowing you can offer your family the security of health care, that's priceless. Now, you can do it for the cost of your cable bill, probably less than your cellphone bill. Think about that, good health insurance for the price of your cellphone bill or less." — Speech in Largo, Md. on Thursday.
THE FACTS: The family coverage you can get for the cost of a monthly cable or cellphone bill is going to expose you to a hefty share of your medical expenses. Looked at in terms of digital communications, it's more like dial-up Internet than 4G.
The cell-phone analogy has become the talking point of the week for administration officials pitching people on the health care markets opening for business Tuesday. Obama said earlier that of every 10 Americans who are uninsured, "six out of those 10 are going to be able to get covered for less than $100 a month, less than your cellphone bills."
He is referring to the cheapest of four major options offered by the new markets, the "bronze" plan. But, just like with auto insurance, premiums aren't the only potential expense for a consumer. Those who choose bronze will have to pay 40 percent of their medical bills out of pocket through deductibles and copayments. A family's share of medical costs could go as high as $12,700 a year, or $6,350 for individuals, on top of those cell-phone-like premiums.
And as has been noted, the increase in prices was less than expected.Quote:
OBAMA: "Premiums are going to be different in different parts of the country depending on how much coverage you buy, but 95 percent of uninsured Americans will see their premiums cost less than was expected." — Largo, Md. speech.
THE FACTS: Less than who expected? Obama is referring to an administration analysis that finds premiums are coming in 16 percent lower than had been estimated by experts at the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. Independent analysts find similar results. But it's a stretch to suggest that numbers crunched by CBO's experts would reflect the expectations of regular consumers.
An empty promise for a plan that originated from a throwaway applause line. But it's going to be GREAT!Quote:
REP. KEVIN McCARTHY, R-Calif.: "When we started this health care debate, the president led with a very big promise to the American people: If you like the health care that you have, that you currently have, you can keep it."
...
THE FACTS: McCarthy is correct, Obama said exactly that. It was an empty promise, made repeatedly. Sebelius picks her words more carefully but still offers misleading assurances.
Are you saying there aren't any doctors who receive payment in cash or have they all become employees of insurance companiesQuote:
Originally Posted by J_9
And of course the lefties are only going to be happy if everyone gets screwed... no democrat in recent decades has done anything to actually help someone worthy of help.
Meaning they screw the productive members of society to help the lazy bums who would have starved to death left to their own initiative.
Are you saying our resident library homeless guy and my friend for 12 years was a lazy bum?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Why is he homeless and not working? Obama was bragging about how utterly fantastic the economy is right now compared to 5 years ago about an hour ago... that means either he was spouting Bovine excrement again on TV... or there are plenty of jobs to go around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Actually being a worthless member of society isn't mutually exclusive with being friendly... A lot of them are very good at that to get things off people, or get people to do stuff for them, I've known more than my share of people that fit that bill in my life. I'm just sick and tired of ever larger portions of my income being taken off me and given to the people who won't work hard enough to improve their own situation.
Get burned by enough of them... and you start seeing it my way.
12 years homeless ?
He worked good jobs, but ended up old (60s) and on the street. He died last year at 73.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
More than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
That's not at all what I said. Did you even read what I wrote? Nah, didn't think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Doctors are not required to accept the ACA insurance. They can accept cash or private insurance, thus leaving people with this unaffordable health insurance without primary care physicians, hence they will line up at the local ER for ordinary complaints.
The "ACA insurance" in Illinois is private companies.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Why can't these people pay cash and sort it out with their health care provider later, this is what I haven't understood from your remarks, why must a doctor accept a health care provider?Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
For years, we have looked for area medical people who accept our insurance plans. If we want a certain doctor and he doesn't accept payment from a certain company, then the insured is considered "out of network" - still covered but not as much.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Because only a rich man can pay the rates a doctor charges. Most of us depend on insurance providers.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
This is why single payer works better, where I come from there are various options, we can seek out a doctor paid by the system, we can just go to any doctor pay them and get reimbursed from the local office or we can trot along to the ER who obviously wish we wouldn't but the benefit under the system is always the same irrespective of who the provider is, and for hospitalisation we can have insurance, or use the state hospital or the private hospital system but you wouldn't want to do that without insurance but the beauty of the system is it works no matter where you go in the countryQuote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Another distortion .the truth is that doctors are burdened with all the regulations. Doctors setting up their own practice actually have a hard time practicing their profession . They spend a lot of time being office managers . They needs staffs of clerks to comply with all the paper work ;and their fees(which are controlled by government if they accept Medicaid /Medicare patients ) have to cover all the over head ,including what I mentioned ,buying or renting space ,payroll and human resources ,very expensive liability insurance ,and a decent profit to cover the expense of years of education to obtain their license to practice .Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
To answer Clete's question... there is a growing movement by some doctors to "opt out " of the whole gig and are setting up cash only practices.
Read the rest .Quote:
In Wichita, Kan. 32-year old family physician Doug Nunamaker switched to a cash-only basis in 2010 after taking insurance for five years. ("Cash-only" is a loose description. Nunamaker accepts payment by debit or credit card too.)
Under the traditional health insurance system, a large staff was required just to navigate all the paperwork, he said. That resulted in high overhead, forcing doctors like Nunamaker to take on more patients to cover costs. Plus, the amount insurance companies were willing to pay for procedures was declining, leading to a vicious cycle.
"The paperwork, the hassles, it just got to be overwhelming," Nunamaker said. "We knew that we had to find a better way to practice."
So Nunamaker and his partner set up a membership-based practice called Atlas M.D. -- a nod to free-market champion Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugged. Under the membership plan -- also known as "concierge" medicine -- each patient pays a flat monthly fee to have unlimited access to the doctors and any service they can provide in the office, such as EKGs or stitches.
The fee varies depending on age. For kids, it's $10 a month. For adults up to age 44, it's $50 a month. Senior citizens pay $100.
The office has negotiated deals for services outside the office. By cutting out the middleman, Nunamaker said he can get a cholesterol test done for $3, versus the $90 the lab company he works with once billed to insurance carriers. An MRI can be had for $400, compared to a typical billed rate of $2,000 or more.
Nunamaker encourages his patients to carry some type of high-deductible health insurance plan in case of an emergency or serious illness. But for the everyday stuff, he said his plan works better for both doctor and patient.
"It would be like if car insurance paid for gas, oil and tires," he said. "It would be very expensive, and you'd have to get pre-approval for a trip out of town."
Most of his clients are self-employed, small business owners, or employed at small firms that have found the monthly fee, combined with a high-deductible plan, a cheaper option than traditional insurance.
Nunamaker now has a patient list totaling 400 to 600, compared to the 2,500 to 4,000 he said a typical family physician usually maintains. He's quite happy with his annual salary of around $200,000.
"My professional life is better than expected, my family life and personal time is better than expected," he said. "This is everything I wanted out of family medicine."
Cash-only doctors abandon the insurance system - Jun. 11, 2013
I think it's very affordable ;and in fact ,my wife has gone to a cash only doctor for many years .
That's been the norm for years. Few doctors practice alone, but become associates and establish group practices in which they share an office manager, clerical staff, PAs, nurses, rent space, buy furniture and medical equipment. Each has his own liability insurance (I had mine as a counselor in a group practice). Licenses were not yet needed for counselors, but we would have had them if they were. We charged a fair market price that people paid out of pocket or through insurance. If we (or a doctor) was too expensive, the patient went elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
The ACA shouldn't affect that.
A tactic here Clete is to charge you to pay for health services and let you argue how much you get reimbursed for those services with your provider, or bill you the difference (out of pocket expenses).
But some of us got checks back for the provider not spending a fair share of our premium payments for health care.
The ACA will not relieve the overhead burden . If anything it will make it worse . That is why these doctors are opting out of the game. Others are just leaving the profession in droves .Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Overhead is a slave to whatever the market will bear. Nothing to do with insurance at all. Talk to the real estate guy or power company for overhead concerns.
You just keep piling on the excuses don't cha? Sooner or later you will acknowledge EVERYTHING is too damn EXPENSIVE, and your wages can't keep up.
It's not supposed to and has nothing to do with it. Overhead is the cost of doing business. ACA or not, overhead is there.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Why would doctors flee? They're going to get more patients (and thus more money). The same patients who headed for the ER (and the hospital got the Medicaid payment) will now seek out a doctor (and the insurance coverage the patient pays for will pay the doctor).
So the doctors are lying ? From an AARP article on the same subject
Direct Primary Care - Cash Only Doctors Say No to Your Health Insurance - AARPQuote:
Why is this happening?
Physicians and researchers cite three reasons — but all relate to one thing: insurance hassles.
Money: Under the traditional system, most medical practices need a large staff to ensure that they are reimbursed by health insurers. This results in higher overhead — which eats up to 60 percent of a typical practice's revenue — and forces doctors to see more patients in order to cover costs.
Yes it is ,as all compliance with regulation results in added overhead costsQuote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I have no idea what that means. My doctor hasn't changed a thing in his office.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Unless the doctor is administering care to the patient ;everything else that goes on in the doctor's office is overhead. If the law requires more staffing ,more hours to comply with the paperwork for added mandates then overhead costs have to go up . You can't make the statement you made until you know the details . Perhaps your doctor compensates by taking a reduced salary . Anyway ,Obamacare tries to regulate the details with the HHS " Medical Loss Ratio Regulations”. That effort will fail ,and more than one provider is betting that their overhead will be too high to continue their practice. That is why J-9 mentioned that many are opting to work out of hospitals as paid staff .Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Does the law mandate that -- or does the increased patient load mandate that? Seems like it's a win-win situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I really hope everyone who voted for Obama ends up with $10,000 deductible plans...
Then tell us how much you are saving from your old plan when you pay twice as much to begin with.
No changes in the plan we have. Or in my son's private pay.
ACA is for those who have NO insurance.
I gave 2 links including the Obamacare friendly AARP. Guess the doctors are lying .
Here's another :
Dysfunctional ObamaCare Is Making Our Doctor Shortage Crisis Worse - Investors.comQuote:
Many doctors — particularly those nearing the end of their careers — will simply hang up their scrubs instead of spending heavily to comply with ObamaCare. According to Dr. Jeff Cain, president of the American Academy of Family Physicians, "Almost a third of family doctors in rural America are thinking about retiring in the next five years."
A 2013 Deloitte survey of physicians found that six in 10 doctors believe that many in their profession "will retire earlier than planned in the next one to three years."
Those who can't afford to retire may look to partner with hospitals in order to offload increases in overhead fueled by ObamaCare. That's bad news for physicians, hospitals and patients alike.
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