Ask Me Help Desk - Obama: religious schools cause division

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athos

Huh?

In Northern Ireland ,what he calls the Protestant schools are the state controlled school system. So one of his real beefs is a private education system.

But he has a beef against Catholics in this country and has shown an intollerance to Catholic institutions here . As an example ,Catholic schools are now being coerced into providing contraceptives and abortifacients against their values.
Any way you look at it ,it was an insulting comment . He compared Catholic education to American education in the segregated South . He makes no such claims against the Quaker school his daughters attend . He made no such claim of divisiveness when he made his commencement address at Morehouse last month.. a traditionally Black and all male college . No ,his beef is with Catholics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

It was my choice to focus on what I wanted to discuss. If you want to call it symbolism then fine, but among those things (all of which I acknowledged) that encourage division and discourage cooperation, and the complaint from Catholics, was separate schools for Catholics and Protestants.

Is that true, were they singled out specifically? Yes. Was that not the complaint from Catholics? Yes, again.

The dishonesty came in those denying he singled out segregated religious schools. He did indeed and that is the subject of my post. It's not rocket science. If someone wants to focus on the other aspects they can start their own thread, this one is about the effects of segregated religious schools.

I don't think it would make much sense to start two or three different threads for each relevant paragraph. Considering each paragraph is linked to the other.

P.S. I am not actually calling it symbolism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuttyd

I don't think it would make much sense to start two or three different threads for each relevant paragraph. Considering each paragraph is linked to the other.

P.S. I am not actually calling it symbolism.

I don't think so either, but denying he said what he said is totally dishonest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

So that's your idea of an honest debate, closing the thread?

It was suggested I do so because the debate was going nowhere. The thread was closed for a very short time. I reopened it when tomder started a new thread on the same subject, so I merged the two as I reopened this one. I was honest and left all my foot tracks visible for you to gripe about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

It was suggested I do so because the debate was going nowhere. The thread was closed for a very short time. I reopened it when tomder started a new thread on the same subject, so I merged the two as I reopened this one. I was honest and left all my foot tracks visible for you to gripe about.

And ironically you can't see you were the one taking it nowhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

And ironically you can't see you were the one taking it nowhere.

Tal is helping me. I guess we shouldn't disagree with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Tal is helping me. I guess we shouldn't disagree with you.

Still avoiding the obvious. It's really simple, did he single out segregated religious schools as among those things that encourage division and discourage cooperation or not?

The Bible isn't very tolerant at all of other religions:

Quote:

"Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree:
And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place."
Deuteronomy 12:2-3

Christians ARE the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

The Bible isn;t very tolerant at all of other religions:

Christians ARE the problem.

This is not a bible discussion, there were no Christians in the time of Deuteronomy and if you can point out which churches are sending their members out to "utterly destroy" all the heathen we can talk, but you still have that confused with radical Islam.

Yes some Catholics are tripping and some are not and some feel attacked and some do not. What's the point if everybody has a differing opinion on whatever subject? Even about birth control there are clear lines of division over procedure and policy, but to say the president hates you because of that is a stretch.

Matter of fact, I think no matter what he says there will be those who take offense at it just because he said it. That doesn't mean your right... I mean CORRECT... but you have a right to your opinion, and I have a left... oops... right to disagree with it.

Is the Bible not the word of god?

Here's more about the bible that christians follow:

Quote:

Ezekiel 23:46,47 (KJV)
For thus saith the Lord GOD; "I will bring up a company upon them, and will give them to be removed and spoiled. And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire."

Here is from the New Testament:

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Luke 12:49-53

49 “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!
50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed!
51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three.
53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

Dude, if you want to have a bible discussion there's a board for that, but thanks for demonstrating the bigotry begins with you.

What bigotry? - these are actual verses in the bible that christians follow. I didn't make them up or change them.

If you don't want to have an honest discussion about why christianity causes division then see you later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

What bigotry? - these are actual verses in the bible that christians follow. I didn't make them up or change them.

If you don't want to have an honest discussion about why christianity causes division then see ya later.

This bigotry: "Christians ARE the problem." That was you, not the bible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

Yes some Catholics are tripping and some are not and some feel attacked and some do not. What's the point if everybody has a differing opinion on whatever subject? Even about birth control there are clear lines of division over procedure and policy, but to say the president hates you because of that is a stretch.

Matter of fact, I think no matter what he says there will be those who take offense at it just because he said it. That doesn't mean your right.........................I mean CORRECT.........but you have a right to your opinion, and I have a left.....oops.....right to disagree with it.

It's not about who's feeling what, it's about what Obama said. I repeat, It's really simple, did he single out segregated religious schools as among those things that encourage division and discourage cooperation or not?

Until you guys can acknowledge that much there's nothing to discuss.

It's a scary thing I know when the cracks and failures of long cherished institutions are pointed out.

Quote:

This bigotry: "Christians ARE the problem." That was you, not the bible.

Yes, in your situation in Northern Ireland as there are only christians there and there have been problem for decades. What else could it be?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Yes, in your situation in Northern Ireland as there are only christians there and there have been problem for decades. What else could it be?

You tell us, you're the one smearing Christians.

P.S. as I correctly pointed out in the OP that was not a religious war. It was an "ethno-nationalist conflict."

Quote:

you're the one smearing Christians

Can't be smearing if I'm quoting verbatim from their holy book.

I mention it due to your post.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...ml#post3491824

They DO encourage division and discourage cooperation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

It's not about who's feeling what, it's about what Obama said. I repeat, It's really simple, did he single out segregated religious schools as among those things that encourage division and discourage cooperation or not?

Until you guys can acknowledge that much there's nothing to discuss.

You've changed your argument. It was "Catholic schools" before this; now it's "religious schools."

The "religious" part isn't the problem; the "division" and lack of cooperation and unity is. That's why they need to have a Catholic-Protestant bake sale and a Saturday night dance.

I notice there's barely of mention of Protestant schools in this thread - I guess they are not outraged about that denomination being mentioned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

You've changed your argument. It was "Catholic schools" before this; now it's "religious schools."

The "religious" part isn't the problem; the "division" and lack of cooperation and unity is. That's why they need to have a Catholic-Protestant bake sale and a Saturday night dance.

Really? I'm not the one trying to discuss everything but the subject of the thread and making excuses for what Obama said.

What is the title of this thread?

Obama: religious schools cause division

I repeat, It's really simple, did he single out segregated religious schools as among those things that encourage division and discourage cooperation or not?

Until you guys can acknowledge that much there's nothing to discuss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I notice there's barely of mention of Protestant schools in this thread - I guess they are not outraged about that denomination being mentioned.

Bingo! They were named in the same breath as Catholic schools.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I repeat, It's really simple, did he single out segregated religious schools as among those things that encourage division and discourage cooperation or not?

Until you guys can acknowledge that much there's nothing to discuss.

Wow! You've changed your argument!

Yes, SEGREGATED religious (Catholic AND Protestant) schools encourage DIVISION. They do in the U.S. too.

I'm glad you've come around to our point of view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Wow! You've changed your argument!

Yes, SEGREGATED religious (Catholic AND Protestant) schools encourage DIVISION. They do in the U.S. too.

I'm glad you've come around to our point of view.

Have you no integrity at all? Just close the thread, you don't give a damn about having an honest discussion you're sole goal is to discredit me at all cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Have you no integrity at all? Just close the thread, you don't give a damn about having an honest discussion you're sole goal is to discredit me at all cost.

Read back on what you argued earlier and note that you finally are including Protestant schools in the mix.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I notice there's barely of mention of Protestant schools in this thread - I guess they are not outraged about that denomination being mentioned.

I already addressed that . The " Protestant schools " are the state sanctioned schools in Northern Ireland . The emperor of course favors state controlled education.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

The emperor of course favors state controlled education.

And you know this how?

Well I've known that for a long time . But Wiki affirms my information

Quote:

Education in Northern Ireland is heavily segregated. Most state schools in Northern Ireland are predominantly Protestant, while the majority of Catholic children attend schools maintained by the Catholic Church.

Segregation in Northern Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

Well I've known that for a long time . But Wiki affirms my information

Segregation in Northern Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I posted that long ago in this thread. It has nothing to do with Obama hating Catholic education.

How about this? --

Bill Donahue, president of the Catholic League, has a different take on Obama’s remarks. He says critics have taken the words wildly out of context – if they’ve paid attention to the words at all.

“There are plenty of reasons to be critical of President Obama’s policies as they relate to the Catholic Church, and I have not been shy in stating them. But the reaction on the part of conservatives, many of whom are Catholic, over his speech in Ireland, is simply insane,” Mr. Donahue said in a Friday blog post.

“Obama was not condemning Catholic schools – he was condemning segregation,” Donahue wrote. “He was calling attention to the fact that where social divisions exist, the prospects for social harmony are dimmed. How can anyone reasonable disagree with this observation?”

Obama Catholic schools flap: Did he really call for end of religious schools? (+video) - CSMonitor.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Read back on what you argued earlier and note that you finally are including Protestant schools in the mix.

It's not rocket science to see I've included both since the title. It was you who glossed over that aspect from your first post and are now trying to discredit me by confusing the difference between the subject and the source I cited.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I posted that long ago in this thread. It has nothing to do with Obama hating Catholic education.

How about this? --

Bill Donahue, president of the Catholic League, has a different take on Obama’s remarks. He says critics have taken the words wildly out of context – if they’ve paid attention to the words at all.

“There are plenty of reasons to be critical of President Obama’s policies as they relate to the Catholic Church, and I have not been shy in stating them. But the reaction on the part of conservatives, many of whom are Catholic, over his speech in Ireland, is simply insane,” Mr. Donahue said in a Friday blog post.

“Obama was not condemning Catholic schools – he was condemning segregation,” Donahue wrote. “He was calling attention to the fact that where social divisions exist, the prospects for social harmony are dimmed. How can anyone reasonable disagree with this observation?”

Obama Catholic schools flap: Did he really call for end of religious schools? (+video) - CSMonitor.com

I am looking at the body of evidence when I come to the conclusion that the emperor has a beef with Catholic education . The very decisions made by the administration regarding religious choice related to Obamacare is all the evidence I need. His main beef is that Roman Catholic church is a self governing entity that won't submit to his dicatates ,and insists that the state honor their very real
1st amendment right to religious liberty and freedom of association.

And as far as Bill Donahue goes ;I often agree with him ;but not always .As an example , he said the HHS "compromises" were a good thing.
But this time he jumped the shark.
Catholics and Protestants have their own separate parochial schools in this country.
Should that stop in the USA because Donohue alleges it to be a cause of “segregation” in Northern Ireland?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

I am looking at the body of evidence when I come to the conclusion that the emperor has a beef with Catholic education . The very decisions made by the administration regarding religious choice related to Obamacare is all the evidence I need. His main beef is that Roman Catholic church is a self governing entitity that won't submit to his dicatates ,and insists that the state honor their very real
1st amendment right to religious liberty and freedom of association.

Exactly, I cited the contraception mandate and the Obamacare attempt to redefine what qualifies as a religious ministry as evidence in the OP.

Just because they are separate entities does that mean they can't do great things together for their flocks. No matter the country? I certainly hope not.

Don't you agree that them working together would be a great thing and an example of cooperation that would inspire others to greater things among us humans?

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

Just because they are separate entities does that mean they can't do great things together for their flocks. No matter the country? I certainly hope not.

Don't you agree that them working together would be a great thing and an example of cooperation that would inspire others to greater things among us humans?

Who says they don't work together?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Who says they don't work together?

Do they? How? What are they doing to work together?

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“We Catholics should pray together, but we should also pray with other Christians. We must pray so that God may grant us all unity. Unity!.

“We shouldn't follow the path of division, nor the path of conflicts among us. No! We should all be united. All united despite our differences. Always united. That is the true path of Jesus.”

Pope Francis June 19,2013 .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Do they? How? What are they doing to work together?

The Holy See - The Roman Curia - Pontifical Councils - Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity