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Unfortunately there is lots of truth in that statement . Clintoon Secretary of State Madeline Albright champagne toasted Kim Jong mentally ILL when he first emerged ;and Bush grew soft as his term progressed .Quote:
Your namby pamby handling of this over years has got you to this situation
Yes it's all this humanitian nonsense, yes it is sad some of the NK populace suffer but short of war nothing can be done about it
Aa
So what will happen if the NORKS and Iran can't be persuaded to end their nuke program ? Containment ? Not likely... more likely proliferation.
Quote:
Japan may open a plant that can produce eight tons of plutonium a year — enough to make 1,000 to 2,000 nuclear weapons annually. That's at least as many weapons as are in the entire U.S. operationally deployed nuclear force.
Pyongyang Is Not Our Only Nuclear Worry - Henry Sokolski - National Review OnlineQuote:
South Korea also wants to make plutonium-based nuclear fuels from imported U.S. power-reactor assemblies. In a Foggy Bottom press conference with secretary of state John Kerry on April 2, South Korean foreign minister Yun Byung-se made it clear that he wants to revise South Korea's current nuclear cooperative agreement with the U.S. in order to allow Seoul to make such fuel. Kerry said he hoped to resolve the matter soon. He will visit South Korean president Park Geun-hye in Seoul later this month.
What the secretary will offer President Park, though, is still unclear. If he says yes to Seoul, Japan will be dead set on opening its plant at Rokkasho. This, in turn, is likely to prompt China to up its atomic ante. Beijing has been coy about what its true nuclear capabilities are, but it has been toying with the idea of having the French build it a plutonium-extraction plant nearly identical to the one in Japan. China wants to build the plant adjacent to one of its major military nuclear-production sites in Jiayuguan.
So how soon could this be converted into active nuclear weapons ? Well 'The Institute for Science and International Security' thinks the primitive Iranians could convert 25 kg of fissible material into a bomb in 2-3 weeks. Imagine how fast the Japanese or the South Koreans could do it .
Institute for Science and International Security › ISIS Reports › Iran › Stopping an Undetectable Iranian Bomb
And why would this be necessary if both nations are already presumably under the American nuclear umbrella ?
That should be obvious . Why should they trust the US commitment to their defense when push comes to shove ? Emperor 0 has made no bones about the fact that he wants to slash the American military down to size. He has said that he wants to to defund “unproven missile defense systems” (even as he deploys them to Guam) .He wants to create a “world without nuclear weapons” ,and apparently plans to lead by example... i.e. not modernizing the nuclear arsenal.
If I was an ally ;I'd begin to question the US commitment to my defense. What we end up with is MAD... with many fingers on the button.
Okay if all the small fry are afraid of being nuked, then we should nuke a few big mouths and then every thing will go back to normal right? Or should we send Seal Team 1, 2, and three to screw up the works? Oh wait, all those vets coming back from two wars are still trained.
We should take a stronger stand against proliferation... especially by rogue "big mouths" who threaten to use them to destroy nations in their region.
Wait until you see which nations get the bomb if Iran isn't checked real soon.
Can't say I disagree Tom, and one would assume there is much we don't know going on behind closed doors, or by phone.
What part of the existing MAD situation don't you get? We have had MAD up to here for sixty years. I applaud efforts to reduce the nuclear arsenals, not getting bitter and twisted about not having enough nukes. The truth is we can live without nukes, but if proliferation occurs then I would like my nation to possess the deterent because as you say, you can't trust the americans to look out for your interests when they are under direct threatQuote:
If I was an ally ;I'd begin to question the US commitment to my defense. What we end up with is MAD... with many fingers on the button.
Yeah we would all love to sit at the campfire eating s'mores and singing kumbaya . But there are real bad actors out there and what you really want is the good guys to have the biggest weapons.
Don't worry about the US commitment to Aussie .
We are a convenient base of operations, that's how it was in WWII and in various other skermishes, and with your renewed interest in the Pacific/Asia, but we are not the 51st state. We appreciate the alliance but it has been costly and will be again if NK attacks youQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
You make it sound like you weren't attacked by the Japanese.. but we know better don't we ?
Yes they had a party in Darwin harbour, sunk an american warship, but that was just over reach they had no intention of invading and we fought them successfully in PNG but again, not Australia. The Japanese quarrell was really with yourselves and the British but as we were alied we were drawn into it as undoubtedly we will be this time
Lol ,your island continent sits on the flank of the most important shipping lane in the world... and you think you are isolated and immune from world events ;except when the powers that provide for that umbrella you live under ask you to contribute. Then it's 'we were drawn into it ' as if a Japanese takeover of the Philippines would not have affected your nation at all. Get real.
Singapore (that shipping lane you are referring to) is a long way from the Australian continent. We are no more isolated from asia than you are, but our attitude is different, we don't seek to dominate. Candidly, the japanse take over of the Philippines would not have affected us if that is all they did, anymore than the japanese takeover of Manchuria and China affected us but there was a wider conflict that we were already part of and thousands of Australian troops defended Malaya and ultimately surrendered Singapore just as you surrendered the Philippines. We have a long history of defending that part of the world and cooperating with the nations of the region without your help. We are a little more skeptical of alliances Tom than perhaps you are. A major ally cast us adrift in WWII when it suited them even when we were making a substantial contribution to their war effort. And we fought beside you in Vietnam for what, so you could give up when it suited you?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Now that mouse thinks he's on top, he's dictating the terms of surrender, I told you this was about oriental face
Kerry did his tour and came off looking like a wuss. No doubt both Pyongyang and Beijing both feel like victors . Tehran too.
Well what do you expect, this is after all their backyard and you can only come over to play when you are invited
Nonsense ;we have allies there that rely on our assistance against the Chinese aggression. What the Chinese don't get is that there is no way Zero would be doing his 'pivot East ' if he didn't think the Chinese posed a significant security threat to our allies . It's the Chinese expansion and military adventures that is prompting this American policy. Zero doesn't want this .He wants to dismantle our military and use the funds for his statist agenda.
Chinese aggression? A few uninhabited islands and fishing rights? Look I know it's all about oil. BO isn't interested in your allies and the only military adventurism in the region is yours,
Any way Mr Kim uncool has stopped his B/S perhaps those aggressive Chinese have had a word in his pink and shelllike
lol , uninhabited islands is an irrelevant classification Yes there are mineral rights ,that's one issue .The greater one is the Chinese plan to control the inner and outer island chains as a defense perimeter . They want the whole region from the shores of Vietnam to the Japanese islands to be in their military sphere of influence. You may think that's irrelevant . I call it a matter of sovereignty .Quote:
and the only military adventurism in the region is yours,
No aggression ? What a joke !
India protests over China border incursion - FT.com
China plans next generation of carriers as sea disputes broaden - Livemint
Philippines: China Has An Invasion Plan That Is Working
Chinese vessels drive out Japanese boats from disputed islands - The Economic Times
Everywhere I look in the region I see Chinese aggression.
And the interesting thing is your don't see your ownQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
China blasts US for Asia-Pacific military build-up | World news | guardian.co.uk
Yeah nice spin. But do you really think Emperor 0 would be shifting assets East if he did not see the threat the Chinese pose on our allies there ? Please ! If he had his druthers ,he'd dismantle most if the US military . But reality hit him right between the eyes .
I think most of these threats you see are political rhetoric for internal consumptionQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Let's have a look at NK from a different perspective, for example
What if we're wrong about North Korea? Australian Professor Stewart Lone argues | News.com.au
Not necessarily as you or I might have seen it?
Q&A: North KoreaQuote:
How bad are human rights in North Korea?
Millions of people in North Korea suffer extreme forms of repression and human rights violations that violate nearly the entire spectrum of their human rights. In January 2013, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Navi Pillay, said that North Korea had “one of the worst –but least understood and reported - human rights situations in the world”.
Hundreds of thousands of people—including children—are arbitrarily held in political prison camps and other detention facilities where they are subjected to human rights violations like forced labour, denial of food as punishment, torture and public executions.
Many of those held in political prison camps are simply the family members of those deemed unfriendly to the regime, arbitrarily detained as a form of collective punishment.
Hundreds, possibly thousands, of victims of enforced disappearances and abductions by North Korea Include nationals of South Korea, Japan, Lebanon and Thailand.Are human rights improving under the new leadership of Kim Jong-Un?
No.
Unverified reports received by Amnesty International claim that the North Korean government has purged possibly hundreds of officials deemed to be a threat to Kim Jong-un's succession, by having them executed or sent to political prison camps..
In 2011, as North Korea prepared for its leadership succession, prison camps appeared to be growing in size according to satellite imagery obtained by Amnesty International.
In March, analysis of new satellite images by Amnesty International showed that North Korean government is blurring the lines between a political prison camp (kwanliso 14) and the surrounding population, raising fears of widescale increases in restrictions and controls of people living near prison camps.
In October 2012, there were reports that one political prison camp (kwanliso 22 in Hoeryong, North Hamkyung Province) was reportedly closed after Kim Jong-Un came to power, but what has happened to its 20-50,000 inmates is a mystery.
Are North Koreans still starving?
Despite small increases in household food consumption reportedly due to recent improved harvests, food insecurity and chronic malnutrition remain widespread, and millions remain dependent on food aid.
Reports continue of people dying of starvation. Nearly a million North Koreans have starved to death since the 1990s.
The country's famines and food crises have been largely invisible because of political controls, including restrictions on the movement of both North Koreans and staff of international humanitarian agencies, and the near-total suppression of freedom of expression, information and association.
Amnesty International has reported on the devastating human rights impact of North Korea's food and health crisis.
How do people escape North Korea?
Despite tight restrictions on movement and dire consequences for breaching these, tens of thousands of North Koreans take on the grave risks to cross the border without permission into China every year, most in search of food. China considers all undocumented North Koreans to be economic migrants and if caught, forcibly returns them to North Korea where they risk incarceration in the political prison camp system where conditions remain horrific. Inmates face torture and ill-treatment, and denial of food as punishment.
What do North Koreans in the country think about their situation?
We do not know, as there is no independent domestic media, no known independent opposition political parties, no independent civil society, and criticism of the government is punished by incarceration in a political prison camp or detention facility.
Are North Koreans on Twitter?
Only a select few people in the country have internet access, mostly through a closely monitored intranet network. Use of mobile phones is heavily restricted.
What is the international community doing about North Korea's human rights crisis?
The UN Human Rights Council decided in March 2013 to establish a year long Commission of Inquiry to investigate a range of “systematic, widespread and grave” human rights violations including crimes against humanity. In North Korea. Amnesty International welcomed the wide mandate given to the Commission.
The move to establish the Commission has come after years of UN resolutions and condemnations targeting North Korea's human rights record.
The North Korean authorities refuse to recognize or grant access to international human rights monitors, including the UN Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in North Korea and international human rights organizations like Amnesty International.
What is Amnesty International's position on the use of nuclear weapons?
Amnesty International opposes the use, possession, production and transfer of nuclear weapons, given their indiscriminate nature. Amnesty International also stresses that the use of chemical and biological weapons in armed conflicts is prohibited by international law (Biological Weapon Convention 1972, Chemical Weapons Convention 1992).
Yes Tom we know all that but it is interesting to get a different perspective
I see Kim Jung un will not be ignored shootting rockets into the sea of Japan perhaps it's a new form of whaling?
It seems the NK have an endless supply of short range rockets and they want everyone to know it. It's sad when you get ignored even though you are doing your best to be noticed from the naughty corner. I wonder what the fish think of all this?
If they are testing short range missiles ,that means there is probably some upgrade the Iranians are looking to transfer to Hezbollah .
Yes could be or it just could be they are trying to intimidate South Korea, perhaps they just want to be sure the design works they might have got an update from Iran, I guess that ols axis of evil thing still works
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