Harris is dead... his luck ran out . Militias are one clause of the 2nd . The other one ;quite explicit is the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
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Harris is dead... his luck ran out . Militias are one clause of the 2nd . The other one ;quite explicit is the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
You keep selectively quoting the clause without putting it in context. It is as if by saying it enough you make your point of veiw absolute truth. The point of the clause is to maintain a militia, back in the days when they couldn't afford a standing army or police force, and in any case, there was the tyranny of distance to consider. As I have said before Tom, ad nausium, these are different days
They HAD an army back in the day... the Militia were private citizens... more like the national guard.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
And it specified BOTH the right to have a Militia AND the right of citizens to keep and bear arms.
By that argument.. were does it grant the people the freedom of speech? You can't define the first one way and the second under different criteria.
Not if you expect to have any credibility.
And their reason to say that was?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
To prevent a Tyrannical government from returning like the one they fought a war to get away from in England.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
An armed populace would never allow it... or at least before the moral decay of certain groups that are too lazy to move to a country that has such a government that they rather have an oppressive government here.
Gorilla warfare was important in the Revolutionary war... it wasn't just the Regular army fighting it.
(I was writing more and accidentally kicked myself offline.)Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
And who will lead this effort? (Seems like the Republicans in the House are doing a great job of stymieing things minus the guns. Our system of government works quite well.)
Don't NEED a leader to be effective... the need might never arise.. but the way things are heading the last few years.. there likely will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
If the right would get their act together and do it right (ha ha, that's funny), they could clean up the place. Unfortunately, I'm not in politics to tell them how to do this and be their leader. (Yes, they desperately need a leader.)Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Well... the sad thing is so few people understand the old saying "...those who forget history, are doomed to repeat it."
Gun control and confiscations preceded the worst atrocities in the last several hundred years. Yes the British tried it here before the beginning of the revolutionary war too... for the same reason as all the others... an unarmed populace is a populace that can be oppressed.
Well, the US sure has that covered!Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
For now they do... The Obama worshipers want to impose gun confiscation.. (they have actually said that much) Barbara Fienstein is on record for just one. So Obama can declare himself emperor and throw out the constitution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
There is no other justification for disarming the people.
No I don't implicitly trust any politician.
That is simply not true. No one is going to disarm anyone or confiscate guns. There is no way anyone could recall 300+M guns and get away with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
They are dumb enough to try to do it... many of them will do anything their Messiah Lord Obama tells them to do... they already believe everything he tells them to believe. Reminds me of the Followers of Pol Pot. And Mao. Look at how many people revered Stalin... even after killing over 20 million of his own people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I didn't say they could get away with it without serious bloodshed... but they aren't smart enough to understand how seriously most of us take our second amendment rights.
I know very few people that would hand over anything, OR even register anything (the only reason for that is to know who has what so they can go after them)... and quite a few that if they went door to door trying... a lot of them won't be going home again.
He won't be telling anyone to do that, now or ever. And he won't allow anyone else to do it in his stead.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
You've got lots of "them"s and "they"s in your post, Not sure who this paranoia is leveled at.
The sheeple that believed the propaganda that expect their free Obama money now...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
You didn't listen to any of his recent anti-gun rants, have you? He very much IS calling for taking away our guns... he and his minions have been very explicit about that.
I've listened to every word he has said. Do not be afraid.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
And I am not a sheeple.
Have you stopped to think that the motivation is to protect the people, to protect those who cannot protect themselves. Obama doesn't want to declare himself Emperor and even if he did, an armed population will help him, not hinder him. As soon as there is an armed insurrection, he has the mandate to declare martial law. Twice in your history an armed population has led to a civil war, with devastating consequences. On one occasion the rebels won, on the other they did not. Get out of the romance and into realityQuote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
There is NO legitimate motive to circumvent the Bill of Rights or the Constitution.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Any such action is nothing short of Treason.
But then... you've never lived in a nation with a real Constitution, one that wasn't written in pencil.
Is that right, well it happens that the Constitution of this nation was written having due reference to what had transpired on the other side of the Pacific. We took the good parts of your Constitution and left the rest, and we don't suffer from lead poisoning here. Strange that?
Our pencil constitution, as you put it, has allowed us to throw out a bad government on its ear, mid term, something your constitution would never allow you to accomplish. We don't spend our time debating our rights, we don't spend our time stumbling from one election to the next, We get on with what is important not batting a depression caused by, guess who? The people with all the rights
Right... a constitution written in pencil... one that any group of nuts that get enough people elected can change on a whim...
Meaning anything written on it.. isn't worth the paper its written on if it can be changed so easily...
Wait until the next bunch decides to do away with elections because the people can't be trusted to vote... you know... like the people can't be trusted to have guns.
You don't battle about rights because you have none... except what they decide to let you have at any given moment.
Stop talking out of your hat, if there is one thing that is extremely difficult to change it is our constitution, it has only been changed on rare occasions. We have rights, the same rights you had when you defeated King George. What will be swept away is anyone who gets above themselves and sometimes we don't have to wait for an election for that to happen, in fact, I think I see it happening now, another night of the long knives approaches
Yeah... time for another revision of the week... how much is left of what you had 10 years ago... much less since your independence? Apparently nothing is sacrosanct in your constitution. Based on your own statements.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
That's were we differ greatly... most of ours IS sacrosanct. Or at least so difficult to change... it takes a long time AND a huge effort along with massive support among the voters.
What part of difficult to alter don't you understand, that makes all of it's clauses sacrosanct. You are off in la la land, revision of the week?
The only Constitutional debate at the moment is whether to include recognition of first peoples or original inhabitants who aren't recognised as a separate people in the constitution. Some time in the future we may revisit the republic debate
The only changes to our rights in recent times are the same sort of changes you suffered after 9/11 and they weren't constitutional changes because our parliament has the power to make laws pertaining to criminal acts
The constitution was not written to be worshiped, it a guide to building a more perfect. Like our nation its an ongoing works in process despite right wing disbelief that it gets better, or the lack of willingness to move forward, not back.
Thank god their numbers are dwindling so the collective noise they make is and will be less deafening. Leave 'em alone and they will eat their own.
I have to disagree that your Constitution is like old wine, it gets better with age or that it is improving. What I find amazing is after this long you have to constantly refer to it. We have learn't the rules and we rarely refer to it. That won't always be so here but there has been no serious attempt to alter it in ten, maybe, twenty years.You see we have to get a majority of voters and a majority of states, something like your electoral college, it is very difficult to do
That's what happens when a bunch of immigrants from many cultures are thrown together Clete, there are frictions and conflicts to be resolved. The once dominant immigrants are no longer at the top of the food chain assimilating the lesser ones. The constitution is all they have to hold onto besides their guns and the rich.
But the constitutions says that slave and master are equals but master still doesn't want to share. Because then he must submit to assimilation himself. That will take a while.
Do you really think that is the problem, we have as many cultures and peoples and no reason to retreat into our constitutional fortress, in another hundred years it may be different
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