Ask Me Help Desk - The fiscal cliff

Spending cuts and taxes hikes are exactly what is needed to start fixint the economy and getting out of debt, so why is the fiscal cliff such a terrible thing? It's so sad to see the U.S. being so stupid and reckless, even Greece is getting their act together and had their credit rating increased recently. How come no one is talking about cuts to welfare? There are too many deadbeats not contributing to society and getting free money and it would save billions if they cut them off. Go to YouTube and type in Obama voters and you'll see the kind of scum that are sponging off hard working taxpayers, even liberals would be aghast.

Word is that Bonehead met with the President and offered $800 billion in new revenues.

Here is how the conversation is being reported :
•Boehner to Obama: "I put $800 billion [in tax revenue] on the table. What do I get for that?'
•Obama to Boehner: "You get nothing. I get that for free."
Obama's “small deal” could lead to bigger tax increases

The problem with going over the cliff is that it will push us into a recession again.The President has no problem with that because he has it set up that he can blame the Repubics for the economic fall out. .

Around and around and around we go, pity they just can't cut to the chase

Hello again,

Looks like Bohener, and the Tea Party are going to RUIN our economy. I wonder how badly they'll be punished..

excon

Bonehead is going to be punished when he is voted out of leadership in January by his caucus. The President plays him like a fiddle and he weepingly goes along with it and tries to punish the members of his caucus that stands by their principles .

Standing on principle or fear of being primaried? The house should have voted on a plan and cutting out half the house for a plan of the other half isn't governance. Strict adherence to principle takes all the felixibility out of what we need as a nation to adapt to changing conditions and locks us into policy that nolonger works or applies.

The Hassert rule doesn't work in divided government.

Fear of being primaried will be the fear of any Republic who votes for tax increases without a guarantee of budget cuts. You saw the so called negotiations by the President. Don't talk to me about a lack of leadership when he told Bonehead that the he was unwilling to compromise .

Quote:

But the most important insight into the White House's strategic thinking comes when Boehner says to the president, ”I put $800 billion [in tax revenue] on the table. What do I get for that?” Obama's response is cold and telling. ”You get nothing,” the president said. “I get that for free.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...tax-increases/

We all know that repubs will be better at agreeing to tax cuts after the cliff than increases on taxes before the cliff. But how the rest of the deal goes..?

The deal is everyone gets a little less, it's the path to recovery

If we confiscated ALL the money from everyone making $100,000 or more ,we still could not fund 1 year worth of Obama deficits .

Republicans want the spending to end yet want to keep spending on weapons and tanks and airplanes with two engines, while letting job creators manipulate the system for profit without people.

Capitalism for the few while creating no value for the many. Supply side economics with NO demand creates a lot of low wage jobs with no futures. Perfect for a climate of cheap labor, and bustling return for investments in an evergrowing climate of privatation, and wealth extraction, by shrinking opportunity.

Supply side economics makes no sense in a consumer driven economy. NONE whatsoever.

Hello again,

I wondered WHY Obama would say, "I get that for free". If it really WAS like Republicans portray it, then SHAME on Obama...

But, of course, it WASN'T like that at all. Right wingers just flat out LIED. I don't know WHY they think lying is a good tactic.. It really isn't. In fact, it COULD be said that Romney LOST because of his lies. People DON'T like to be lied to.

Oh, yeah.. The Republicans weren't entitled to ANYTHING from the trillion in tax hikes, because they already WON their concessions WHEN that particular trillion was negotiated LAST summer.

You DON'T get two bites at the apple. It doesn't help your cause when you think you should.

excon

Tal ,the military is the only part of the budget that has seen any significant trimming in the last 4 years. Using Ex's logic... you already took a bite from that apple .

The politicians have already damaged the holiday sales with their stupid shenanigans, holiday sales were expected to rise 4%, instead they rose 0.7%. If they had reached a deal long before Christmas which they should have done, people would have bought much more and it would have helped the economy, who knows how much damage this will do to the already fragile economy. Even if they make a last minute deal, I don't think it will be enough to satisfy the markets and bond ratings agencies. You can't underestimate the stupidity of American politicians.

Has anyone noticed how ridiculous John Boehner looks with that stupid Jersey Shore tan? Who does he think he is, the Situation? It must be frustrating for Obama to try and reason with someone who doensn't even have enough common sense to not look like an idiot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

if we confiscated ALL the money from everyone making $100,000 or more ,we still could not fund 1 year worth of Obama deficits .

I'm not sure what that says Tom, something about living beyond your means, it wasn't just BO who has been deficit funding

No shiite captain obvious ! Guess I have to say it again. I did not defend Bush's expansions of the Federal Government It has to end and end now . We cannot fund a government at this size AND have a healthy economy . The libs are always saying 'it's for the children'. But what kind of future are they leaving ? Every kid is broke before they are born.

Hello tom:

You make it sound like Obama isn't willing to make cuts. He's TRYING to make a deal, but we have a divided government. Boehner can't make a deal because the Tea Party WON'T let him. He HIMSELF said, plan B didn't have the votes, and he wasn't talking about DEMOCRATS..

The Republicans/Tea Party ARE responsible for throwing us over the cliff, and they'll be punished for it... I've said many times on these pages, your party LOVES to shoot itself in the foot... THIS time, they're dropping a BOMB on their foot.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

no shiite captain obvious ! Guess I have to say it again. I did not defend Bush's expansions of the Federal Government It has to end and end now . We cannot fund a government at this size AND have a healthy economy . The libs are always saying 'it's for the children'. but what kind of future are they leaving ? Every kid is broke before they are born.

Tom you are right, your whole economy needs serious adjustment particularly the debt level but as you point out your wealthy don't even have enough wealth to deal with it. It seems the whole county has leveraged itself into the poor house, so much for letting bankers have a free hand. The base for your healthy economy left and went to China chasing cheap labour, I expect you priced yourselves out of the labour market and created the environment for a growing national debt. There is nothing else for it but to bring your industries back and devalue your currency so you can sell your product

Quote:

Hello tom:

You make it sound like Obama isn't willing to make cuts. He's TRYING to make a deal,

I'll believe that when I here some of those cut proposals. But I quoted from the Washington Compost ,and they are saying that the President offered nothing..

Clete the currency is already devalued. What we really need is a stable currency policy ,and budget cuts that would eventually bring them back to manageable debt levels. That won't happen over night .But it won't start with the current leadership in either the WH or Congress.

Whipping the slaves more so master makes more money is NOT the solution even if that's what capitalist want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

Clete the currency is already devalued. What we really need is a stable currency policy ,and budget cuts that would eventually bring them back to manageable debt levels. That won't happen over night .But it won't start with the current leadership in either the WH or Congress.

Tom you are speaking of a dream world, your currency needs to devalue at least 50% to have any real effect and that would start a trade war, so probably won't happen, you need to stop printing money with the QE nonsense and return interest rates to reasonable levels so investment can flow again, why would anyone invest in a place where interest rates are zero, the soveriegn risk is too high.

Capitalism in the US has failed because of corporate and individual greed and that must be dealt with, You can't afford these high flyer CEO's who produce nothing, anyone can slash and burn and take a bonus, that's greed.

You have to get your politicians snouts out of the trough and that means getting rid of these lobbiests who are fueling greed. You need fundamental change and I'm sorry but I can't see it happening

Hello:

You know, the economy is NOT really controllable by man. It's kind of like an atomic pile. If you put too many rods in, not enough power comes out. If you take too many rods out, it blows up.

Our leaders are playing with it HOPPING that they don't take too many rods out. But, they don't have ANY idea how many is TOO many...

I fear we're in for a LOOOONG dark period. The crazy thing is, it's an entirely SELF INFLICTED wound. Yes, it's the TEA PARTY who's bringing us down...

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

You know, the economy is NOT really controllable by man. It's kinda like an atomic pile. If you put too many rods in, not enough power comes out. If you take too many rods out, it blows up.

Our leaders are playing with it HOPPING that they don't take too many rods out. But, they don't have ANY idea how many is TOO many...

I fear we're in for a LOOOONG dark period. The crazy thing is, it's an entirely SELF INFLICTED wound. Yes, it's the TEA PARTY who's bringing us down...

excon

So it's the Tea Party that spent us into this hole?

Hello again, Steve:

Quote:

So it's the Tea Party that spent us into this hole?

I don't know. You missed it again... I'm NOT talking about WHO brought us here, or I'd have mentioned George W. Bush's TWO wars that we DIDN'T pay for. Where was the Tea Party THEN??

But, my answer refers to those who are PREVENTING us from SOLVING it.

Look. I KNOW it's YOU I'm talking about. I don't expect you to think of yourself as the one who DESTROYED our economy. If I did it, I wouldn't think so either.

Excon

Well no I don't have to think about it at all, I didn't destroy the economy. I just wonder if all you people who think we did run your finances like the federal government does. If you do, how's that workin' for you?

When faced with the task of building consensus ;Bill Clintoon locked himself in a room with Newt and together they hashed out a plan. The President's version of that is to tell Bonehead 'take it or leave it' ;make a statement to the press that it's the Repubic's fault ;and then go fly away to his next golf outing .

Hello again, tom:

If I were about to destroy the economy, I'd BLAME the other guy too..

The FACT is, Boehner and the pres were VERY close to a GRAND bargain a week or so ago. The bargain, of course, DID include income tax increases, but Boehner couldn't get it through his caucus RE: Tea Party. It was THEN that he came out with the impossible Plan B to salvage SOMETHING, and even THAT couldn't get through the Tea Party...

Again, if I was about to DESTROY the economy, I'd blame EVERYBODY else but me. But, we all KNOW who's doing it. Really. We're NOT stupid.

excon

Quote:

The FACT is, Boehner and the pres were VERY close to a GRAND bargain a week or so ago.

the bargain you talk about was that Plan B that Bonehead put out on his own without the President. That was the plan defeated when the TP properly perceived that Bonehead caved. But make no mistake... it was not a bargain that the President had anything to do with.

By the way ;the President loves the fact that we are going over the cliff . From his perspective ;what's not to like ? He gets his tax hikes ;he gets his military cuts ;and everything else?? He has the press to blame the Repubics and the TP .

The Democrat controlled Senate hasn't passed a budget for going on 4 years. The president wants unilateral authority to raise the debt ceiling and has been pointed out numerous times, his only compromise on his "balanced approach" is "my way or the highway." Don't put this all on the Tea Party which wants to keep taxes low and stop unsustainable spending levels, we're NOT stupid.

Hello again, tom:

Quote:

the President loves the fact that we are going over the cliff .

This, from the guy who thinks Fast and Furious was a conspiracy to get OUR guy killed, so Obama could round up the guns. Since THAT didn't work, you probably think he sent the killer to Connecticut. But, I digress.

Going over the cliff CAN produce advantages, if the PR is handled right. You're doing your best to paint it YOUR way.

But, I suggest that Obama is at LEAST as smart as I am, and like ME, he KNOWS that tinkering with disaster, might just bring the disaster on.

You guys think tinkering with disaster is a GOOD way to get what you want. But, you might get the disaster instead.

Again, you're not fooling ANYBODY..

Excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Going over the cliff CAN produce advantages

...

Again, you're not fooling ANYBODY..

excon

Interesting things to say from the guy who just blamed the TP for destroying the economy.

Bonehead wanted leverage and support to negotiate with. He didn't get it. Over the cliff we go.

Thanks Tea Party, and the rest of you wingers who want to stop government spending and make banks and corporations the new god, and govern America with manipulated capitalism.

You have been saying NO for 4 years and your way or NO way, and its interesting how you react to someone who says it back to you.Thats either hypocrisy, or ideology. For sure its not working, and never did. Never will. Everybody knows that but YOU guys.

The only question left is what will you wingers do after we go over the cliff, and the real fun begins?

Hello again,

I left off the word political advantages.. Somebody is going to be left standing.. Whomever the winner IS, will have reaped those political advantages... But, the country will be destroyed..

There was a time when I, like tom, THOUGHT that going over the cliff COULD reap certain advantages for my team... But, now I see the risk as being TOO BIG. I don't think it's CONTROLLABLE. I really LIKE my comparison to a nuclear pile.

I believe the President, like ME, doesn't want to risk it, either - EVEN though there might be political advantages... He LOVES his country too much... You guy's, on the other hand, look like you want to CRASH it. You REALLY do.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

Bonehead wanted leverage and support to negotiate with. He didn't get it. Over the cliff we go.

Thanks Tea Party, and the rest of you wingers who want to stop government spending and make banks and corporations the new god, and govern America with manipulated capitalism.

You have been saying NO for 4 years and your way or NO way, and its interesting how you react to someone who says it back to you.Thats either hypocracy, or ideology. For sure its not working, and never did. Never will. Everybody knows that but YOU guys.

The only question left is what will you wingers do after we go over the cliff, and the real fun begins?

Dude, you know Republicans tried to work with Obama early on and his response was "I won." A while later he then proceeded to ram Obamacare through. And you wonder why Republicans don't cave to him?

You also know he appointed a bipartisan commission then rejected them out of hand. You know he hasn't gotten a single vote on any of his budgets. And the only reason Harry Reid might put Obama's "balance approach" up for a vote is to watch it go down in flames and blame Republicans.

I can't take you any more seriously than I can the most unserious president in our history.

Armey's Attempted Armed Coup of the Tea Party

The republican civil war, tea party vs the rest of the party, AND the world.

You call the last 4 years working with Obama? That's a joke right?

Sure does put a lie to all the Dem demogogery over the so called 'Bush tax cuts.' Funny thing is that how critical it is to them that they remain (except for the screwing the rich of course ) .Guess the President was blowing a whole lot of smoke when he waxed poetic about the Clintoon rates .

[QUOTE=talaniman;3354555You call the last 4 years working with Obama? Thats a joke right?[/QUOTE]

Um, that's not at all what I said. I said "tried" but you CAN'T work with someone that refuses to budge.

Hello again, Steve:

Quote:

Dude, you know Republicans tried to work with Obama early on and his response was "I won."

I'm SURE you believe that, like you believe the Fast & Furious conspiracy. But, it's just not so.

What's SO, is Mitch McConnell's pledge that Obama BE a one term president... And, he did his BEST to make it that way. Didn't work... They NEVER tried to work with him. That's NEVER - NEVER - NEVER.

Look. You can think of yourselves as the good guys, and you do. But, WE think of ourselves as the good guys too, and guess what?? The COUNTRY agrees with US - NOT you. Did that stop the intransigence?? It did NOT.

Here's where we are... You HATE lefties, and lefties aren't fond of you. Where's that going to get us? Over the cliff and in deep sh1t, that's where it's going to get us!

Excon