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Hey mods... do you consider this civil discourse ? Come on ! There are 2 of you active on the OP . When will this personal attack be addressed ? When I respond in kind ?Quote:
I love you loonies, but you guys are crazy, and completely out of step with reality! And don't expect an apology!!
It's a discussion board, the comment doesn't seem to be rude or disrespectful, is more tongue in cheek, but report it if you think it crosses the line. I'm in the thread so cannot action it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Tongue in cheek ? No it isn't .
For a parole violation and you have not decried his despicable piece of crap either.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
That's what this is about. You lumping their loony right with the sane and sensible and calling them all the same.They are NOT! Then you get mad when I do the same to you? Unreal!!
I certainly wouldn't call it disrespectful. I've had nastier comments leveled at me on this board.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Nor have I heard you decry a Hollywood production about Jesus hanging on a cross dying and lusting after Mary Magdalene at the same time. When you see Christians rioting and killing over that then perhaps your comment would have some relevance.Quote:
For a parole violation and you have not decried his despicable piece of crap either.
My point was there is no difference between a muslim, christian, or jewish right wing loony. Or an atheist one for that matter.
You all engage in soaring rhetoric, spew hate, and denigrate any who disagree with you. Because you are free you think you have arrived, and cannot see others are going through what we have been through.
What? We didn't spill blood along the way?
That's because you believe in moral equivalence . That is ;you see no difference between an individual act and riots and murder in multiple cities over an alleged slight. You see no difference between a Coptic Christian making a silly video and an undeclared policy of the government in power to exterminate Coptics or drive them out of the country .
And so he should be prosecuted, this is hate mail in whatever form, just because it is masquadering as art doesn't exempt it. Thing is the consequences of his comment has got people killed, making him an accessory to murder before the fact. Your anything goes policies reaps this sort of thing, but you aren't often the ones who pay the price, so yes your administration should decry the act and prosecute all the offenders this is justice, it may not be the american way but it is justice.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Look Tom Mudhutmad was a desert madman who convinced people to go to war in the name of God, they overran half the world and that war continues 1400 years later. These are a tribal people, unsophisticated and culturally niaive. You don't go prodding such people with a stick
What I see is fundamentalist muslims stirring crap from propaganda, hatred and lies. Much like the white supremist who shot up the Sikh temple.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Nope not even close... it only would be equivalent if Wade Michael Page had done his act with the prompting of the rulers of the nation . But that is not the case . He is a criminal . So on one hand you have a lone murderer who went on a rampage before he offed himself . Had he lived ,he would've been arrested ,prosecuted ,and convicted for the crime he committed .
On the other hand you have clerics in multiple nations stirring up mob violence for political motives .
Sorry ;your equivalence doesn't work ;but I understand that it is that thinking that leads the President and his Sec State to apologize for our freedoms. .
Okay where is the link that shows Obama, and Clinton apologizing?
Tom your idea of freedom is wrong, freedom is not doing anything whether if offends anyoneelse or not, freedom is not suffering oppression, of being able to make reasonable decisions of how you will live within a community or alone. Freedom is not being a law unto yourself but living with respect for law and others.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
What was apologised for was the action of some individual which offended religious sensibilities of others
Clete you don't know .These same hypocrites would tell you that a publicly funded art exhibit depicting a cross in urine ,or a dung-covered Madonna is freedom of expression . The ONLY difference is that Christians don't riot and murder over it. Their apology is not sincere . No not at all. Evita said "The U.S. deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others,"... "Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation" . You'll wait a long time before she ever apologized for the examples I just cited . It is the progressives who instead use taxpayer dollars to underwrite such outrages .
No ;their apology is a public display of weakness in an attempt at appeasement.
You didn't understand the meaning behind that?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
That was no apology, especially when she condemns the violence in the next statement
Hillary Clinton's Statement on the Attack in Libya - Yahoo! News
Why can't you produce the apology, or stop repeating Mitts lies!
Tom you have no commitment to religious tolerance if you permit such offensive material in your midst. Religious tolerance means not deliberately offending any group, not allowing people to promolgate offensive material for profit, as I said you have the idea of freedom backwards, freedom is not freedom if you bully or tread down any group. Freedom is not a Scotsman on a hill showing his arse and shouting they will never take our freedomQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
You speak about appeasement, but you can't because your nation invaded another nation to appease what, the voices of liars and decievers in your midst. As I have said I have noted that the muslims in the US are not protesing in a violent manner and yet we have to bear the consequences of your freedoms, you know what I say; B#ullshlt! Get your act together america,
No ,I don't understand a sacred Madonna surrounded by profane pronography ,female genitalia ,and elephant dung shaped in the image of cherubim and seraphim.I understand it is art .I understand it was offensive . I did not understand why it's exhibit was funded publicly .Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
The big difference I see here is the reaction . No one said Ofili didn't have the right to paint it . No one said he didn't have the right to display it.No cleric or national leader called for his death . No cleric or public official whipped the population into a violent fury. There was instead a court case to prohibit the display using public funds... a case that was lost . So my tax dollars paid for the display of a blasphemy .
Perhaps since they have escaped the oppression of their society ,they understand freedom better than you .Quote:
As I have said I have noted that the muslims in the US are not protesing in a violent manner
No Tom unlike their brothers here they cower knowing what will happen to them if they dare do it there. You think our police response was brutal well I'm sure they understand that your national guard would subdue them probably with gunfire. Perhaps you didn't get the more militant type from Lebanon, Pakistan and Afghanistan there but we have them here, courtesy of a displacement that you instigated in your continuing war against Islam
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I suppose you could say a hostage negotiator APOLOGIZES for a kidnapper. It DOES make the cops look weak. In fact, it truly IS an attempt at appeasement...
They are so wrong, to do that... They should SHOW the kidnappers of the world just how POWERFUL the cops are... That'll STOP kidnapping, won't it??
excon
I think he is still looking for the link to back up his appease and apology lie, that has been, in the words of he and speech... DEBUNKED!!
Geeze ;take a couple days off to enjoy the weekend and football...
I already quoted Evita's apology . Yeah yeah I know she doesn't come right out and say we're sorry ;but that is what it was nonetheless.
You want to speak of a lie ? The lie is that all this has anything to do with a video.
Of course you are not sorry Tom, excepting that some americans got killed, but hey americans get killed everyday in service of their country don't they? So just another day at the office, what is there to be sorry about
Have you wondered why they get killed Tom, is it just that someone is out to get you? Or is there more to it, see my new thread hey, great retirement of those obsolete planes in Afghanistan
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I agree. It has NOTHING to do with the video.. It was just an excuse to show their anti American hatred... So, how's that Obama's fault?
Oh, that's right, you guys can't remember how things were 4 years ago... I suppose you're going to tell us that the Arab world LOVED us under Bush, but now they hate us...
Here's the deal... Obama has been pursing the Bush policies in the Mid East, only he's doing it on steroids... Do you think the Arab world is going to love us because of that??
excon
Not right Ex Obams has withdrawn from the middle east has been disengaging slowly, if it was Bush you would have been in Syria by now, I think Obama has got the message, US future is not in the middle east, not in Europe but in Asia, but the problem is he has come too late to the game, there are other players who might even deny him a seat at the table. What was more important than being in Russia?
Be clear, Ex, american influence is not welcome in Asia, they are happy to trade with you but that is as far as it goes. In fact your might even be a barrier to progress. Consider what might happen in Korea if you are not a constant threat? If you weren't part of the equation? You have to allow people to decide their own course of action even if it means you loose. It is a lesson surely you learnt in Vietnam?
They desperately need their oil though.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Karma no doubt you have heard of Alaska, of the Gulf, they have no problems Romney will allow them to drill everywhere
Quote:
Obama has been pursing the Bush policies in the Mid East, only he's doing it on steroids... Do you think the Arab world is going to love us because of that??
Clete is right ;you create a vacuum and it will get filled.If America appears weak and apologetic ,that posture will be exploited . Also this adm has shown that there are no consequences for crossing us(except if that country is Israel). We had an attack on our embassy in Georgia last year that the press and the adm pretty much down played . We had an assassination plot by Iranain Quds Force of a Saudi diplomat on American soil that we did not aggressively respond to.Quote:
Not right Ex Obams has withdrawn from the middle east has been disengaging slowly,
And now our public posture is to condemn some idiot video maker instead of putting the screws on the Egyptian government ;the Libyan government and others who we know were complicit in the attacks.
More mixed signals. What is ambassador Rice smoking ?
Obama Administration Not So Sure Attack in Benghazi Was Planned - Global - The Atlantic Wire
Tom disengaging from an area is not being weak and apologetic, it is being realistic about where your trading interests lie. You overplayed your hand in the middle east and look where it got you. Now you are overplaying your hand in the Pacific and we hope it won't have the same effect.
You want weak and apologetic, look at your response to Libya, an al Qaeda attack and you want to say protesters attacked your embassy with military weapons. You wouldn't be in this situation if you had not made yourself a parriah throughout the Muslim world.
Election year and Obama can't afford another war, the US cannot afford another war.
Brer Bunny, he lay low
The Pacific is another example where our perceived weakness has emboldened a nation intent on territorial expansion... or have you not been following the aggressions in the Senkaku Islands ;the Spratley Islands ,and with almost every other nation in the First Island Chain region.Quote:
You overplayed your hand in the middle east and look where it got you. Now you are overplaying your hand in the Pacific and we hope it won't have the same effect.
Tom this is something the US needs to stay out of. These are centuries old arguments. We know that during WWII Japan occupied all these places, before then we have only historical records shrouded by time
Hello again,
More stuff from Mother Jones:
This is a LEADER??Quote:
.. Palestinians have "no interest whatsoever in establishing peace, and that the pathway to peace is almost unthinkable to accomplish."
Romney spoke of "the Palestinians" as a united bloc of one mindset, and he said: "I look at the Palestinians not wanting to see peace anyway, for political purposes, committed to the destruction and elimination of Israel, and these thorny issues, and I say there's just no way."
"And I look at the Palestinians not wanting to see peace anyway, for political purposes, committed to the destruction and elimination of Israel, and I say there's just no way."
Romney was indicating he did not believe in the peace process and, as president, would aim to postpone significant action: "[S]o what you do is, you say, you move things along the best way you can. You hope for some degree of stability, but you recognize that this is going to remain an unsolved problem…and we kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it."
Excon
This is a controversial statement ? He's 1000 % correct. The Palestinians have zero interest in a 2 state solution and have demonstrated that many times .
So we should no longer continue to engage them in discussion about it? Let 'em do whatever?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Sounds like Romney is talking about some Hope and Change.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
So, we should elect him NOT to lead, but to hold on till somebody better comes along...He has NO CLUE that HE'S supposed to BE the thing that will happen.. So much so, that he's not even going to try...Quote:
kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it."
Who needs THAT kind of leadership??
Excon
PS> (edited) Yes, I have more to say. If Ronald Reagan felt the same way Romney does, the cold war would NOT have ended!!
It's a more honest assessment of the conflict than we've seen in decades from presidents or candidates from either party. What you are saying is that they should lie to us.
Obama spoke all the right things ;and his negotiations were a dismal failure that led to tense relations with our ally Israel ;and ZERO progress in settling this issue.
Ps.. I've got more . Harry Truman said 'I tell them the truth and they think it's hell'. I'm liking this tell it the way it is Romney . It's a refreshing change from the dance around the issue Romney of the primaries.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I'd rather try and fail, than not try at all.. Frankly, that's a very American position to have... That's cause I'm American through and through...
To want to win an election, to do NOTHING about saving the world, is somehow foreign to me... It's NOT American... Maybe Romney is an anchor baby, and not really AMERICAN!
So, we can count on Romney to be a CARETAKER, and NOT a leader, huh??
excon
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