Yes Tom but a rat is always recognisableQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
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Yes Tom but a rat is always recognisableQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I don't mind analogies, but in the end you can never prove anything by analogy.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Of course you can argue that field mice are house mice. It just a case of the environment determining the name.
However, I don't know any mice; field or other wise that manufactures a tyranny.
In the end you are saying that despite the difference you have pointed out there is no difference.
Tut
It's the difference between being dropped into boiling water or being dropped into tepid water that has a burner bringing it up to boiling temp.
In Tocqueville's thinking ;once the hope is removed by the soft tyranny, then the democratic institution collapses,to be replaced by the fascist state . Dictators are usually installed by a willing populace .
Citizens vote for those politicians who promise to use the state to give them whatever they want. The political-class delivers, so long as citizens do whatever it says is necessary to provide for everyone's desires. The “softness” of this despotism consists of people's voluntary surrender of their liberty and their tendency to look habitually to the state for their needs
Old Europe's New Despotism | Acton Institute
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
For the purposes of this exercise I have already stated that I don't necessarily disagree with the claim that socialism is soft tyranny.
Dictatorships have been in the past, more often than not, been installed by a willing population. This may well be true in the future, but that isn't addressing my key point.
That point being that fascism is really socialism despite the differences.
You would need to address this claim before you can use the words, 'fascist state' in any meaningful way. You would also need to address this point before we can discuss the above.
Tut
There is no significant difference in anything but method of enforcement . I'm willing to accept Marx's definition that socialism is a transition step toward his utopian vision. The only significant difference is that communist /socialism moves for complete public ownership of the economy where fascist/socialism leaves a veneer of private ownership over total state control. What socialism, fascism have in common is an assumption that central planners need to take decisions out of the hands of the people, and impose those decisions by government fiat.Quote:
That point being that fascism is really socialism despite the differences.
I really don't understand the problem understanding this . In the 1920s when fascism was a new model it was embraced by the socialists . It was only after it fell out of favor that it was rebranded as a right wing model.
You know Tom I wonder what label you would stick on our economy and government structure
Would you see it as socialist? Democratic? Fascist?
We have publicly owned enterprises, utilities coexisting with privately owned enterprise, is this a veneer hiding state control? We have states delivering hospitals, education along side private institutions, is this a veneer hiding state control? We have state police forces, gun control, are we a fascist state? National military, are we a fascist state?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Just a list of a few differences off the top of my head
Fascism rejects a dialectical model of how history will unfold. In other words, it rejects Marx and his materialistic conception of history.
Fascism rejects the alienation explanation for the rise of religion.
Fascism rejects the idea that there is any sort of class struggle.
Fascism rejects any idea of replacing capitalism with a working class dictatorship.
Fascism stresses the need for the private ownership of the means of production.
Fascism enacted anti-Semitic legislation.
Other than those important differences they are pretty much the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Tom, you just provided the basis for rejecting your hypothesis.
Fascism did embrace socialism early on but quickly rejected it for the reason I have outlined above. Fascism became very much opposed to the ideas of Marx.
Tut
What does this say about american capitalism is it the same as fascism?Quote:
Fascism stresses the need for the private ownership of the means of production.
Tom, you just provided the basis for rejecting your hypothesis.
Fascism became very much opposed to the ideas of Marx.
I have seen documentaries of americans dealing with strikes and civil rights, difficult to tell the difference between their response and fascism
Glad you pointed this out because I need to clarify that point. By " ..stressing the private ownership of the means of production" I should have pointed out that Mussolini's policy was to reject any role of the bourgeoisie had in the formation of the state.
When it came to actual practice, ideology was put aside for the financial and political benefits this class afford Mussolini. It would be an example of the difference between policy and how a policy is actually carried out. There is a similarity in the rejection of the middle class, but that is where the similarity ends.
So, yes- I should have stated that a lot better than I did.
Tut
The Daily Show visited the Dems party to see how inclusive they are. Must see TV.
Can't see this Speech your censors don't want the news getting outQuote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Probably best we don't see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
I don't have censors.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
In this case it's the US media company that does. They have geo-restricted the content.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
And why would that be?Quote:
Originally Posted by TUT317
Because its about lefties talking about right wing tea party types who they blame for the problems in the country.You know like you righties blame liberals, but in reverse.
So you didn't watch it either.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Yeah I did. What's your point? Should I denounce their intolerance for yours? Or excuse yours? Which is it?
I'm not the hypocrite. If I practiced tolerance the way Democrat convention attendees did we wouldn't be in the same fantasy leagues. Unlike libs I welcome differences, encourage debate, fight FOR your first amendment rights instead of against them and can make the distinction between hating a policy and hating a person.
So this sampling is what all libs are like?
I have always said there are and bad everywhere, but that sampling is is rather common. Stewart wouldn't have done that had he not seen the contradiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Oh come on, you can't say its common with one sampling taken by a comedian. Your side is no better than mine.
That's not what I said, I said if it weren't common, if it was only a figment of our imagination, Stewart wouldn't have done that. He was holding a mirror up to the many liberals who claim tolerance but don't practice it and I applaud him for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Democrat Convention - Funny Part... or more like an embarrassment and insult.
You'd think all those tech-savvy Obots would know anyone can get free images from the Navy but no, they had to honor them with Russian ships.Quote:
Russian ships displayed at DNC tribute to vets
By Sam Fellman - Staff writer
Posted: Tuesday Sep 11, 2012 17:16:10 EDT
On the last night of the Democratic National Convention, a retired Navy four-star took the stage to pay tribute to veterans. Behind him, on a giant screen, the image of four hulking warships reinforced his patriotic message.
But there was a big mistake in the stirring backdrop: those are Russian warships.
While retired Adm. John Nathman, a former commander of Fleet Forces Command, honored vets as America’s best, the ships from the Russian Federation Navy were arrayed like sentinels on the big screen above.
These were the very Soviet-era combatants that Nathman and Cold Warriors like him had once squared off against.
“The ships are definitely Russian,” said noted naval author Norman Polmar after reviewing hi-resolution photos from the event. “There’s no question of that in my mind.”
Naval experts concluded the background was a photo composite of Russian ships that were overflown by what appear to be U.S. trainer jets. It remains unclear how or why the Democratic Party used what’s believed to be images of the Russian Black Sea Fleet at their convention.
A spokesman for the Democratic National Convention Committee was not able to immediately comment Tuesday, saying he had to track down personnel to find out what had happened.
The veteran who spotted the error and notified Navy Times said he was immediately taken aback.
“I was kind of in shock,” said Rob Barker, 38, a former electronics warfare technician who left the Navy in 2006. Having learned to visually identify foreign ships by their radars, Barker recognized the closest ship as the Kara-class cruiser Kerch.
So I can assume by your logic that you support Rev.Jones??
This guy again? Koran-burning pastor Terry Jones backs anti-Muhammad movie - NY Daily News
That's completely off topic and not only have I not given any indication that I would ever support anything that idiot does, I've explicitly condemned the "Christian" religious fringe like Jones on numerous occasions such as this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Should I use your logic and assume you support those who want to hold Jones as an accessory to the ambassador's murder, ban the movie as a hate crime, or put the produce in jail instead condemning the insane, inexcusable, indefensible violence by these Islamists?
I see no difference between the loony tune right wing christians and the loony tune right wing Islamist. They are both crazy destuctive and counter productive driven by hate, fear, and ideology. To the point of this thread, Mitt is as stupid as those groups I just named.
I condone neither Mitts reaction, the movies producers, or the criminals who killed. My point is when you broadly judge the many by the actions of the few, you make a pretty big mistake. Not all Islamists are criminals, no more than the Christians, but a loony is a loony!
Hello again,
These guys were at the RNC, weren't they?
You omitted the huge difference, the loony "Christians" don't strap bombs on 14-year-old girls and send them off as martyrs for their god.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Wrong, some loonies are terrorists, others just fools. And again, this is irrelevant to the topic. I haven't said anything about Islamists here at all. Try to keep up, Tal.Quote:
I condone neither Mitts reaction, the movies producers, or the criminals who killed. My point is when you broadly judge the many by the actions of the few, you make a pretty big mistake. Not all Islamists are criminals, no more than the Christians, but a loony is a loony!
I don't know, I wasn't there. These loons were at the DNC:Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sit...convention.jpg
http://moonbattery.com/sluts-vote.jpg
Hello again, Steve:
I like the slut's vote one. You got your sluts too, but you pretend you don't.
excon
Getting down and dirty, ex?
They're senators... in bathroom stalls... with wide stances.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello clete:Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
I don't know what it's like over there, but over here we can say "slut".
excon
No here ex we call a b@stard a B@stard and a c@nt a C@nt, no nice words like slut, we take it for granted our politicians roll over like our opposition leader is being questioned about being a bully in uni, can't see any of your politicians getting questions like that, you are too Pu@sy for that
instead condemning the insane, inexcusable, indefensible violence by these Islamists?
Whatever would have given you that impression? We don't parade ours around in vagina costumes.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
What do you parade your sluts around in?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Only in response to you, you raised the topic out of the blue on this thread after I showed the DNC honoring vets with Russian ships was my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
We don't. We don't feature sluts and giant vaginas like the Dems.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
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