But what about the Kardashians??
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But what about the Kardashians??
Who?
They are the queens of tom's town I am led to believe.
David Bromwich: Romney, Netanyahu, and George Washington's Warning
A quote from one of our founders, George Washington.Quote:
Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government.. . Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other.
Racists are those that holler about their rights while they make sure you have NONE! They justify it by saying "you are inferior, and of less value than I am". Then they put a boot up your arse for your own good.
Netenyahu is a racist, why else would he holler peace, and rights as he steadily advances settlements and moves the Palestinians further off their ancient lands? That's the tool of racism, segregation. What you thought he went to Israel to be presidential??
Naw he went to get the rich foreign money, and throw red meat to his crowd to show he was worth it.
I guess you missed where I said Arabs have equal rights in Israel. Arab women have more rights in Israel than many Arab nations. Find another line of attack, this racism bullsh*t has got to stop.
You can't talk about it even? Your fair, and honest idea of things has nothing to do with what's going on in the world. I agree racism has to stop, but it never will if you don't even acknowledge it exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
I am not attacking YOU, just stating my opinion of the middle east situation, which is ally or not, following anyone that starts a war that serves his interest, because he uses his enemies rhetoric for an excuse is FOOLISH!
Israel has every right to defend itself, if Iran attacks, NOT if it is afraid they will. Full guns blazing if they do. What's the point? We have a couple of Navys right there in their gulf. And one big a$$ bomb (20 to be precise) just waiting for them to screw up!
The time to stop the Hitlers of the world is before they attack. Maybe you think Israel should respond after Tel Aviv is smoked ? The Mahdi-hatter ;and the 12'ers have made their intentions clear on more than one occasion.
As for the Palestinians ,especially Hamas ,I'd say a good time to stop treating them like the savages they are is when they change their operating charter that states their goal is the destruction of Israel.
You made my first point, Iran doesn't have the capability of smoking Israel, but the Palestinians ARE being pushed further from their land, like those savages from America, the Indians. They fought back too, for all the good it did, for all the good it does the Palestinians.
Wonder why we didn't nuke the Russians before they nuked us, or the Chinese? So why does Israel have to smoke the Iranians? Do you really think the Russians and Chinese will just sit by, and let them do it? You better give this more thought I think.
Custer thought he had easy pickings when he saw the Sioux village, but he found out it wasn't as easy as he thought. You may not like Iran, but they have powerful allies too. Lets not be STUPID!!
I've talked racism enough, I'm not racist, Mitt's not racist, we're not racist. You guys just won't drop it, you have a vested interest in fanning the flames of racism.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
P.S. We racist conservative Texans just selected a Hispanic over the white guy to run for Senate.
And you made my point.. Germany was in no position to conquer Europe even as late as the march into the Rhineland;breaking the terms of Versaiiles in 1936 . Yet Hitler made Germany's intentions clear long before that.Quote:
You made my first point, Iran doesn't have the capability of smoking Israel
Yeah the Israelis pushed them out of Gaza right ? Right now the effective border of 'Palestine' is almost back to the 1967 border . What you are indicating in your rant is that you too do not believe Israel has a right to exist. This is a growing sentiment of the left in this country .Quote:
but the Palestinians ARE being pushed further from their land,
This is all right in the President's playbook . The more he can get us talking about insignificant statements by Romney on his International tour ;the more he diverts attention from the lousy economic number that continue to come out this week.
Judging by the smears conservative blacks receive from the left ,I expect that they will soon call him an Uncle Juan .Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Tom Germany conquered Europe because no one stood up to Hitler, that may be the point you are making but no one stood up to Israel when they conquered the West Bank. Fifty years on we are still saying give it back and they are arguing about which part. Gaza is a horse of a different colour, Egypt didn't want it back and Israel don't want it, and so like the jews of Warsaw you have an enclave. When will you realise aparteid is alive and well and living in Israel because the solutions the world is trying to force there are unworkable. Four years of this american presidentcy and no progress don't you think it is time you left it to Israel and the palestinians to solve, with or without the gun
They have a right to co exist. So do Palestinians. I also understand Manifest Destiny. Segregation, and the whole bit. I also understand the siege mentality that is the history of the region, and the tribal conflicts that have been going on for centuries.
Its got to be tough being the only Jews in an Arab neighborhood. Starting a war isn't the answer.
They have a right to self defense.. What Clete flippantly describes as a 'conquer ' of the West Bank does not stand up to history. Israel did indeed strike the 1st blow when the combined armies of it's neighbors were poised to attack . So technically yes Israel started that war too . Does that make it the wrong call ? NO Does that make Israel the aggressor ? NO .
So the Iranians ,in defiance of the world ,continues to develop the weapon they desire to succeed in their stated goal of the destruction of Israel . When exactly should Israel take action ?
What would you expect from your nation under similar threat ?
Tom don't sanitise history or put words in my mouth, Israel did not simply acquire the west bank and I made no comment about the necessity of action, my concerns lay wholely in the aftermath working itsself out over fifty years
The question is, is the threat to Isreal real, imagined, or rhetorical. That some iranian despot might make political capital out of Israel's existence might be expected and even foreseen, it is convenient to keep the populace focused on the external, rather than the internal and with Iraq out of the picture, Israel is close enough and has the potential to be an enemy. Israel doesn't need to take action, it can let the US fight this battle, so far they have done the heavy lifting Israel gains more from being a neighbour to arab nations than being a combatant. The moral highground is worth holding
What would my nation's response be? vigilance, a higher percentage of GDP invested in defense and perhaps even advancing our nuclear status, the technology is not unknown to us
And if history had turned out differently ,would the world also be so adamant about the Arabs of the Levant returning the land to the Jews ?Quote:
my concerns lay wholely in the aftermath working itsself out over fifty years
It would appear to be a real threat .The Iranians are defying the collective world to acquire the weapon necessary . Again ;I refer back to Germany's remilitarization in defiance of Versailles .Then is when action was needed.Quote:
The question is, is the threat to Isreal real, imagined, or rhetorical. That some iranian despot might make political capital out of Israel's existence might be expected and even foreseen, it is convenient to keep the populace focused on the external, rather than the internal and with Iraq out of the picture, Israel is close enough and has the potential to be an enemy.
Do you think they can trust the current administration ? If the US was doing the heavy lifting then yes there would be no issue.Quote:
Israel doesn't need to take action, it can let the US fight this battle, so far they have done the heavy lifting Israel gains more from being a neighbour to arab nations than being a combatant. The moral highground is worth holding
Secretly the 'Arab world ' would cheer on if Israel eliminate the threat to the region that the Persians pose. There is no love lost.
Let's put it this way, the Balfour agreement was a useful piece of British imperialism with a very notable objective, but unrealistic before WWII. The jews returned and reclaimed the land and the arabs were offered citizenship but opted for war. If they want to come back that is the only way they will do itQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Very different circumstances and the Iranians are defying america not the world. If you hadn't interferred in their internal affairs you might have remained friends and then you would have built their reactors for them, you just don't like Russia getting the contractQuote:
It would appear to be a real threat .The Iranians are defying the collective world to acquire the weapon necessary . Again ;I refer back to Germany's remilitarization in defiance of Versailles .Then is when action was needed.
Are your referring to the american administration, personally I wouldn't trust your administrations, any of them, any further than I could kick them and in my physical state that isn't far. The arabs would cheer if Israel were eliminated too. The saudi arabs might cheer, but the persian menace has existed off and on for more than three thousand years, you see Tom we have gone from the Japanese menace, the German menace, communist menace, those nations are now our trading partners, to the persian menace, you have your cuban menace and your venezuaelan menace. If you would learned to look at the world differently you might not attract so much menace and would have time to prevent the takeover of the US by your southern neighboursQuote:
Do you think they can trust the current administration ? If the US was doing the heavy lifting then yes there would be no issue.
Secretly the 'Arab world ' would cheer on if Israel eliminate the threat to the region that the Persians pose. There is no love lost.
Neither side has clean hands, and they have shed blood for centuries. There will be no solution until they get tired, and that's never going to happen. They can't share, or come up with a compromise.
But letting Iran scare them into a stupid action is unacceptable. Iran has its own problems with the world putting on pressure, and a crumbling Syria. Not to mention the covert actions against them.
Be nice if the tribes of Abraham, and the tribes of Canaan could peacefully integrate, and coexist, on the same land.
Tal I think you know the answer to that, certainly from a biblical and therefore jewish perspective, however we are not dealing with the canaanites, the palestinians are arabs, the peoples of the surrounding territories and from even further afield, who filled the vacuum when the romans drove the jews out or even later when mudhatmad spread his falsehoods across the area with the sword and Salahdin conquered Jerusalem.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
No one can say the place is theirs except by conquest, good heavens, even we Australians have conquered the place in the company of the British. The Israeli's are now in possession and the peoples of the region should be left to work it out
Here are the official words of the Mahdi-hatter ,published yesterday from his office according to the official state-run Islamic Republic News Agency (IRNA)
"It has now been some 400 years that a horrendous Zionist clan has been ruling the major world affairs, and behind the scenes of the major power circles, in political, media, monetary and banking organizations in the world, they have been the decision makers...” the Iranian president claimed.
"The Zionist regime is both the symbol of the hegemony of the Zionism over the world and the means in the hand of the oppressor powers for expansion of their hegemony in the region and in the world,” he went on.
"The Qods Day is not merely a strategic solution for the Palestinian problem, as it is to be viewed as a key for solving the world problems; any freedom lover and justice seeker in the world must do its best for the annihilation of the Zionist regime in order to pave the path for the establishment of justice and freedom in the world,” he declared.
"Zionism is the modern times plight of the human society and when we meet the European politicians they say speak transparently about everything, but they refrain from talking about the Zionist regime, which proves that Israel is the axis of unity of the world hegemonic powers,” he added.
Ahmadinejad: Qods Day to liberate Palestine, solve entire world problems
Now ,Israel has a sworn ememy speaking like that ,and building the weapon necessary to make it happen . Why should they wait for the missiles to start flying ?
[sarc]Surely you don't take that kind of talk from nutjob like that seriously.[/sarc]Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Israel has a had a sworn enemy for a long time Tom and many more than Ahmamadjihad, they have prevailed. Any use of atomic weapons in the region will not aid the palestinians since it is likely to kill as many of them as Israeli's and I don't have doubt Ahmamadjihad knows this. A slight miscalculation and he would solve the palestinian question forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
What you have here is more rhetoric to deflect the argument away from his internal issues.
If he attacks Juresalem he destroys one of Islam's holiest sites, if he hits Gaza or the west bank he destroys the palestinians. Israel can deal with this threat in the way they have shown they are very good at, in the shadows.
You really think he cares about the Palestinian ? You really think the rest of the Arab world does?Quote:
Any use of atomic weapons in the region will not aid the palestinians since it is likely to kill as many of them as Israeli's and I don't have doubt Ahmamadjihad knows this. A slight miscalculation and he would solve the palestinian question forever.
No Tom I know they don't care they would have invaded again by now if they did, No the fate of the palestinians is sealed, the arabs know a lot about conquered peoples and right now they have other concerns. Lebanon has torn itself apart, Syria is tearing itself apart, Jordan is happy to let them go, Egypt can't get itself together let alone be concerned about the palestinians. Perhaps there is poetic justice in there somewhere. Right now they are the pawns in the great game being played this time by the US and Russia with Iran in the middle
Not quite .The Great Game being played there is between the Ottomans,the Sauds ,Egypt , and the Persians for control of the Levant . Hamas paid a price for breaking with Iran over Syria .But they are on the rebound because they have aligned themselves with the Brotherhood . 500,000 Palestinians are in Syrian ;and their allegiance is up for grabs .
Would that the US had shown any leadership role( Obama secret executive orders notwithstanding ) .Instead we allowed the UN and Koffi Annan to manage another massacre .The incompetent and criminal Annan resigned with more blood on his hands .
Don't blame Annan for what has no doubt been instigated by the US, As we say he was on a hiding to nothing from the start, the UN is a spent force, always will be while the veto exists, it was never intended to be more than a discussion forum. No, the US could have done much more but decided for obvious reasons to stand back and watch. Don't worry, I expect those 500,000 palestinians will somehow disappear before this conflict is finished because they will have to decide which side they are on and it is very easy to choose the wrong side after all they have had much experience in making wrong choices.
The great game is not about the firtile crescent, it is about the oil. For the moment it is controlled by the arabs, but the iranians know its worth and so do the americans. Russia's interest is in keeping the americans in check and it can play the iranian pawn, just as it is playing the syrian pawn now
There is an active Russian engagement there because, unlike Obama,they see a danger in a regional rebalancing solutuon.
But ,the is powers in the region competing to fill the vacuum of America's retreat are Iran ,Turkey ,Egypt(the Brotherhood) ,and to a lesser extent ,the Sauds.
The US is NOT engaged in the rebalancing even though Assad's survival means a Persian win as the hegemon in the region. Why is the US not engaged except for pompus declarations from the President ,and limitted ,ineffective covert support for the rebels ? Because Obama campaigned on the very notion of regional rebalancing without active US participation .
I honestly don't care what the rest of the world thinks of the US role in the world . It is contradictory ;and we are damned if you do ;damned if you don't .
Prior to WWII the world resented the US because we didn't intervene . But during the Cold War ,that same world resented our interventions . You have expressed that contradiction many times here. What Obama doesn't get ;and I sense Romney does; is that US has to be guided by our own self interest .World resentment cannot drive US policy .The world can resent all they want. It still expects the US to lead. There is more instability in a vacuum ;and if not us ;some other nation(s) will fill it.
The course that Obama has led us on is contributing to instability. I suspect eventually ,whether we like it or not ,we will be called upon to intervene by those same forces that resent US intervention.
Pull the other one Tom it plays dixie, of course america is involved, covertly no doubt but involved
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Couple things..
I remember MAD. The only way MAD worked is because we BELIEVED the other side wasn't crazy, and they weren't. I don't believe the Iranians are crazy.
So, what are you talking about, anyway? Wiping THEM off the map first? Starting WWIII? Nahhh. We don't want to do that... You thought Saddam was crazy. Thought a war there would be a good idea. It wasn't. If you liked that war, you'll LOVE this one..
excon
You want to start worrying about the chinese not the Iranians, your posturing in the pacific is upsetting them and they are nuclear capable and have the capacity to cripple you economically
Mitt had to skip a few countries on his presidential tour. Here's one,
Romney Persona Non Grata in Italy for Bain's Deal Skirting Taxes - Bloomberg
This is about Mitt and not the middle east ain't it. Or was it about collecting money? You think he cares about history, other than his own? And who PROFITS from an Israeli strike? We don't, but Mitt and Cheney do.
When you are a politician you only go where you are welcome, is that why Obama takes so few trips?
He takes lots of trips to the golf course .
The regime is crazy . No I am not talking about US armed intervention ;although the path Obama is leading us on is a path where armed intervention will be our only option. He had his chance in 2009 to support the rebels in Iran. That was the last best chance to stop the regime peacefully.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Clearly there was no wrongdoing .Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Quote:
Boston-based Bain wasn’t a subject of the inquiries, which didn’t result in any charges.
By what definition Tom, he wasn't caught?
How do you know how legal it was, or is without records and data to examine? Even if it was legal, maybe what we will find is the blatant extraction of wealth we have always been accusing the rich, job creator plutocracy of as they and your candidate want more loot from the economy.Quote:
The sale of the government's directory business is “a dark chapter in the country's privatization history, one that has hurt Italians deeply,” said Bernardo Bortolotti, an economics professor at Turin University who advised the Italian Treasury on asset sales from 2002 through 2005. “It was a mistake from the start, damaged by a lack of transparency and the use of offshore funds.”
Bloomberg has done a great job of documenting how your candidate and his cronies have done this through out the European nations. And for the record, Mr Obama draws crowds that Romney could only dream of when he travels. It's a fact you guys rage raw about all the money he spends on YOUR dime.
This story won't go away, its just to good, and will get deeper.
The only story here is the Italians were morons.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
So we have a choice between a guy who never ran anything in his life, has an over 8 percent unemployment rate hanging over his head for years, and a guy that keeps showing over and over again how successful he is at running whatever he puts his hand to. You guys just can't stand success in a free market.Quote:
The sale of the government’s directory business is “a dark chapter in the country’s privatization history, one that has hurt Italians deeply,” said Bernardo Bortolotti, an economics professor at Turin University who advised the Italian Treasury on asset sales from 2002 through 2005. “It was a mistake from the start, damaged by a lack of transparency and the use of offshore funds.”
While few ordinary Italians realize the link between Romney and the investor group, the deal symbolizes Italy’s economic woes and government futility
No the choice is between the rich getting more at your expense and mine, AND our children, OR a fair shake for 99% of us.
That free market crap is a lie, to hide the stealing, and you are for that?? You get the same results from the free market as you do from a casino. You can't afford either one so where is the free part?
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