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Sunday night in my fair city, two black men entered a local store and gunned down the store owner, a Hispanic man described as "an easygoing, friendly man."
When are the national media, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the New Black Panthers going to come seek justice for this man's family?
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
When?? Never.. Why?? Because that issue isn't the same as the Trayvon issue... You think they are. They're not. That's where the right wing misses the boat. I don't know HOW that happens, but it does.
Let me explain again. This isn't about Zimmerman, or Trayvon, or black people, or Latin people. It has to do with racist cops/prosecutors and the law that allows people to shoot first and ask questions afterwards... Those ARE national issues.
I'm going to save the above, because I know I'll have to use it again. Or maybe I DO know.. You just don't want to discuss the national issues that this killing signifies, so you PRETEND they're not there.
excon
No it isn't the same. It's the same as the weekend in Chicago tom mentioned. The race baiters' time would be better served addressing the problems in their own community instead of stirring up racial tensions unnecessarily. Their perpetual outrage is misdirected. That's my point and I'm sticking to it.
When problems are not addressed and solved fairly, you can expect perpetual outrage, and maybe you can't see how race plays a part of this unfair application of the law, but you do have to acknowledge the fact that its happening all over the place, and if those who wish to shed light on what was swept under the rug are race baiters, then so be it, but you cannot deny what's happening, and see travesty and injustice as crime can you. The crime is in the system, and to lump institutional racism with street crimes, is an act of denial.
If you cannot separate the two, then you cannot resolve either. That's my point, and I will stick to that!
Not convinced there was an "unfair application of the law " in this case . The assumption that I don't accept is that the local cops or the DA did not arrest Zimmerman in the face of compelling evidence that he should be arrested .
Last weekend there was a shooting in a Miami funeral parlor that claimed 14 shot and 2 killed . One of the victims was 5-year-old Mckayla Bazile,who was shot in the leg .
I want to know why isn't Al Sharpton up here in NY protesting what is a horrible incident that happened about the same time as the Martin shooting ? Marine veteran Kenneth Chamberlain, Sr's crime was rolling over onto his medical alert device and setting off it's alarm. That led to a tragic killing worthy of a Shakespearean farce.
Marine vet shot, killed by cops - New York Daily NewsQuote:
Chamberlain, who lived alone, suffered from a chronic heart condition and wore a pendant to signal LifeAid, a medical alert company, in case of trouble. That morning, the company called police after the pendant went off and Chamberlain failed to respond to a two-way audiobox installed in his apartment. He appears to have accidentally set off the device while he was sleeping. A LifeAid employee then requested that a squad car go by the house to check on him. When police arrived, they started banging on his door. Chamberlain yelled out to them that he was all right, that they weren't needed. The dead man's son, Kenneth Chamberlain Jr. and a pair of lawyers said LifeAid's audiobox recorded every sound inside the apartment. They listened to the recording in February in the office of Westchester County District Attorney Janet DiFiore, though authorities have not released it publicly. According to the official police version, the officers heard loud noises inside and thought someone else might be in danger. They said they needed to force their way inside to make sure everything was okay. But Chamberlain refused to open the door for them, according to the lawyers who listened to the audio recording. He was angry at being disturbed by the loud banging and by several police cars and fire engines. He became increasingly agitated as he saw more police arriving with guns drawn. A nearly hour-long standoff ensued. Chamberlain's niece, Tonyia Greenhill, who lived in an apartment upstairs, came down and tried to talk with police, but was ignored. Her uncle sounded scared and was begging the police through the door to leave him alone, she recalled. One of the family's lawyers is Mayo Bartlett, a former Westchester assistant district attorney. He and the dead man's son said someone can be heard screaming at Chamberlain on the LifeAid tape: “I don't give a f--k, n----r, open the door!” One of the people banging outside was also reportedly heard yelling: “I need to use your bathroom to pee!” Others were taunting Chamberlain's military service after they discovered he was a former Marine. The LifeAid dispatcher, who was listening to every word of the commotion, offers at one point to contact family members of Chamberlain to intercede, and even tries to cancel the call for police assistance. But a police officer is heard saying “We don't need any mediators,” according to the lawyers. Two other video cameras captured part of the events that night, and the family and its lawyers have seen those as well. One is a security camera in the hall of the building. Another is attached to the stun gun police used. Those reportedly show police prying the door partly open. At one point, according to Kenneth Chamberlain Jr. a metal object is slipped through the gap in the door and falls in the hallway. “It's hard to tell what it is, but that could be what police are saying was a hatchet,” the son said. The tape runs for several more minutes while cops and firefighters work to remove the hinges to the door. When they finally do, a camera reveals Chamberlain Sr. standing inside his apartment, wearing only boxer shorts, with his arms at his side and his hands empty, according to the son and the family's lawyers. “The minute they got in the house, they didn't even give him one command,” Bartlett said. “They never mentioned 'put your hands up.' They never told him to lay down on the bed. The first thing they did... you could see the Taser light up... and you could see it going directly toward him.” Why anyone would use a stun gun on a man with a known heart condition is astounding in itself. But the cameras don't capture anything more after that point, according to the son and lawyers. Police say Chamberlain later came at them with a knife, and one cop fired two shots. More than four months after the incident, authorities have refused to identify that cop.
This case is much more representative of the point you are trying to make. But the race baiters have clinged to the Martin case even as the narrative have unravelled as the facts have been revealled .
Hello again:
If one of MY favorite lobbying groups was getting KILLED by these protests, I'd want you to look over THERE and NOT over here, too..
Alec is such a friendly name. So is toast.
Bwa, ha ha ha.
excon
For every NRA there are equivant Brady Campaigns . You guys are selective about which lobby groups you would legally curtail.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Yeah, we are. You aren't?
But we don't want to curtail them "LEGALLY", as you imply, but ECONOMICALLY, which works so much better and faster too.
excon
Like unions, who are arguing in Indiana that the right-to-work law violates their free speech because making union dues voluntary cuts their funding.
Ba ha ha ha ha!
Funny that corporations are people too, and allows for unlimited, undesclosed "free speech", but unions are not, and need to be restricted. But you are the guy, hardworking blue collar, that thinks that its okay for those corporations and the rich to be called "job creators", while the extract money from the economy and create sweat shops overseas for profit.
You can't afford to help poor, and working poor, or victims of the job creators not creating jobs, but you allow those that have raked in all kinds of loot, to rake in even more.
And they still have not lived up to the label of "job creators"! You and Tom won't be happy until all the work for middle class families is done in a sweat shop, and the poor are deported, or dead.
You guys are good at villifying those that are denied equal treatment, and protection under the law, because equal, and fair are dirty words to the right.
45 pages?/ There is a lot more there than just ONE argument. Read it!This is from your link,Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Quote:
The argument is just one of many tucked into the hefty 45-page brief the union filed in federal court late last month in response to the state's motion to dismiss the lawsuit. A hearing on the state's motion is scheduled for April 26 in U.S. District Court in Hammond.
Along with other arguments based on state and federal constitutions and federal labor law, the union cites the 2010 Citizens United decision, which struck down on free-speech grounds restrictions on corporations' and union spending on advertising endorsing or opposing certain candidates.
That's why I furnish the source so you guys can make up your own minds. So how many people were forced to give money to Citizens United?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Forced, a bunch of rich people with the same agenda, and bookoo bucks?? RICH people united would be a far more accurate title.
Again... who else forces members to contribute in the form of dues; and contribute them to politicians for favors ?
I am a union member, and have never been forced to do anything. Union dues are no more forced than country club dues. Your facts are severely twisted, and ill informed.
Um, don't you live in Texas, a right to work state?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Well, the special prosecutor is set to press charges against Zimmerman says WaPo. Let the system do its thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Interesting.. one DA told the cops that there was not enough evidence to charge ;and the special prosecutor comes down with the most severe charges she could've filed.. 2nd Degree murder. That is quite a leap.
Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion" or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life. Second-degree murder may best be viewed as the middle ground between first-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.
Second Degree Murder Definition - FindLaw
Best guess is that the prosecutor has her hands on some evidence that was not available to the kangaroo court of public opinion.
Just because Wal Marts has no union, doesn't mean Ford doesn't. A right to work state doesn't make unions illegal for anyone. The workers can decide if they want to form one or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
If it weren't for local unions, you would not have the benefits you have now.
Thought you knew that.
Finally the process of justice can began for Trayvon Martin, based on facts and not feelings, under due process, and equal protection under the law. As I recall that's what the so called race baiter's were asking for. Not take the shooters word for self defense, and let him go!
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Don't forget the keystone cops and/or the local prosecutor. It was THEIR job to find the evidence in the first place. Somehow, they MISSED it.
These charges would NOT have happened WITHOUT the public pressure brought by LEFT WINGERS, that you so decried.. Righty's wanted us to look at Chicago. Look at Texas.. Look ANYWHERE but Sanford, Florida. What you've missed from the beginning, is the fact that in ALL of those cases you pointed us to, the state said that a CRIME occurred. In Trayvons case, the STATE said nothing happened. THAT is what the outrage was about. I don't know how that got by you. Frankly, I'd be ashamed to be on the side of a law that allows people to shoot first and ask questions afterwards..
Besides, aren't you the guys who b1tch and moan about criminals getting off on a technicality?? Isn't this law nothing more than a technicality?? It IS!
excon
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
So is it now mob mentality law? Is it OK to make up law since the left wingers have made death threats and bounties against the man accused even without a trial? How far would you lke to go? The Special Prosecutor is a elected position. She was appointed to do something because others were making noise. It doesn't matter if the law is followed just so long as justice is served. This is a joke. They are doing it to relieve pressure from the extreme ends. Its not about law. What is going to happen and be said if he is found not guilty ? Will the left rise up and riot ?
So peaceful demonstration is now MOB MENTALITY?? While I agree some, on both sides may have gotten carried away, and they are the exceptions, not the rule, as its looney for a total of 6 guys to offer a million dollar bounty, and ridicules for some one to paint "long live zimmerman" on the Ohio State black student union building.
Both done by the stupid, and ignorant.
Ex ; I'm willing to give the special prosecutor the benefit of the doubt that she found new evidence that warrants a 2nd degree murder charge. It's evidence you and I haven't seen because with the evidence that is public knowledge,I don't see how that charge could stick. More likely however ,this is a charge brought about by public pressure,and not the evidence.
Also would like to see where Zimmerman could get a fair trial with the President and the Att General making public comment on the case... in the case of Holder... making them in front of an audience of an organization founded by Al Sharpton (National Action Network).
Hello dad:Quote:
Originally Posted by califdadof3
Couple things... If the special prosecutor is bringing charges for POLITICAL reasons and not LEGAL ones, and he's acquitted, there COULD be riots, and I'd SUPPORT them. I'd be PISSED off to be placated like that.
I HOPE that isn't her motivation. I HOPE she thinks she can get a conviction. I HOPE the law is more than a political tool. Maybe I'm wrong. I didn't know you were so calloused about it.
I have experience with southern cops. I believe, from the get go, the cops had NO intention of charging Zimmerman and they didn't. Case closed.
That is until some people took advantage of their Constitutional rights (which you call a mob), and let the government know about their displeasure. In my view, civil disobedience is the HIGHEST form of patriotism. And, you call it a mob. Fortunately, this is America. It worked. The case got a SECOND look with UNBIASED eyes. And, those eyes saw something the bunglers/racist cops didn't.
Now, I don't know how people are going to react. I don't speak for them.
excon
Guilty or not guilty the important fact here is the evidence will be tried in a court of law, not a kangaroo court of cops and public opinion and then justice will have been seen to be done
The point Clete, is this should have been done when it happened, then no public outrage would have been needed. Justice delayed, is justice denied.
Hello clete:Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Nahhhh. That's not important.. Neither Zimmerman OR his guilt, is the issue here. What IS important, is that CIVIL disobedience WORKED to right a wrong. The ISSUE is the law, which allowed a killer to walk free, or the racist cops and/or prosecutor who let a killer walk free - or BOTH.
excon
I don't see where the 'stand your ground' law is relevant . It is either murder or self defense.
Doesn't matter if a union exists or not and it has nothing to do with Walmart. In a right to work state the union can't force you to pay union dues. In nearly half the states they can. I thought you knew that.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Exactly, she charged him with 2nd degree murder in spite of SYG, so ex's argument is out the window..Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
So you say. His attorney will say 'stand your ground' DOES apply. I think the law gives killers like Zimmerman a pass. I think the judge will agree.
excon
Meanwhile in Chi-town this year... 120 killed and 500 wounded.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
In how many of those killings did the state brush their hands and say, nothing happened here??
excon
Wonder if the New Black Panther Party will put a bounty out for this drive by shooter ?
Mom, 1-year-old daughter shot while sleeping: 'A terrible thing' - chicagotribune.com
Wonder if Jesse Jackson will lead a protest march ?
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Those 4 guys probably don't have $25 between them. Bwa, ha ha ha.
excon
Here is the deal. This woman is a rouge. She pushs buttons and tries to push herself into the news. She tries for what she can and then throws is lessor charges as many as she can to try to make something stick. Have you read her bio?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
http://theobamacrat.com/2012/03/28/special-prosecutor-states-attorney-ms-angela-b-corey/
Another question I have is why circumvent the grand jury process if her evidence is so strong? Smells bad to me and she is grandstanding. That can only hurt the innocent.
Special prosecutors are assigned for one purpose only... to prosecute. All one needs to do is remember the screwing of Scooter Libby.
This is classic strategery.. She over charged and will settle for a lesser plea... that is if the mob will permit it.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I don't know. You sound positively sympathetic to the killer.. Ordinarily, as a card carrying right winger, you'd LOVE a prosecutor to over charge. Do you remember all those OTHER killings you keep pointing us to?? Probably wouldn't bother you one iota if those killers got overcharged. If one of 'em got off on a technicality, you'd be pissed. But, not this one.
You wonder why black on black crime doesn't bother the black community.. I wonder why white on black crime doesn't bother you.
excon
Poor Scooter Libby, took the bullet for his president. Like Ollie North, dope dealer, a right wing hero.
Show me the instance where I have been a cheer leader to prosecutors on these pages .
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