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Originally Posted by tomder55

and I'm fed up to the teeth with ingrates that rely on American protection at the same time they complain about it.

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I don't rely on it Tom you see you like to give the lie that America protected Australia in WWII, we were just a convenient base in the South Pacific, what you were really doing was protecting yourself and prosecuting the war. We had that meglomaniac Macarthur posturing all over the place.

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"The President of the United States ordered me to break through the Japanese lines and proceed to Corregidor to Australia for the purpose, as I understand it, of organising an American offensive against Japan, the primary purpose of which is the relief of the Philippines. I came through and I shall return."

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I don't see anything about defense of Australia in that statement

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The self-styled "Hero of the Pacific" was greeted with adulation by Australian politicians, public and media. Despite this adulation, MacArthur's passion for self-glorification drove him to lie about the manner in which he had arrived in Australia. He told the press that his aircraft had been closely pursued by Japanese fighter planes and had narrowly escaped Japanese bombers as it was landing at Batchelor Field. This story captured the public imagination but it was all a lie. Master Sergeant Graf, who was the wireless operator on MacArthur's flight from the Philippines, later exposed MacArthur's story as a figment of his imagination. According to Graf, the flight to Australia was uneventful. MacArthur's aircraft was never under threat from the Japanese.

MacArthur came to Australia with an obsession to return to the Philippines as a hero. With his mind unwaveringly fixed on a triumphant return to the Philippines, MacArthur would neglect the northern defences of Australia and almost hand the Japanese a victory on the Kokoda Track.

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We have stood beside you fellows in a number of wars, none of which were particularly in our national interest and yet you like to be condescending towards us as if you are doing us a favour of allowing us to die on your battlefield. Let me remind you that we were in the teeth of battle in WWI and WWII, while you were still deciding whether you were neutral or not. It wasn't concern for us that shook you out of your lethagy but concern for yourself interest.

So stop with the yankee B/S Tom and let us have a rational discussion

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Originally Posted by paraclete

hey speech I don't have any misery when you stop projecting misery on the world I'll stop sending it back where it came from. I know you don't like to look in the mirror but sometimes you have too, Just remember it is your country that spends more than the rest of the world combined on the military. What are you afraid of?

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Our country also spends more money publicly and privately on foreign assistance than anyone else. I love it, too when whiners bite the hand that feeds - and protects them. I really think all you ingrates' tune would change if we were to get out of the picture.

With your constant whining about my country, and yes I do tire of it and take offense, all I can say is some "friend" you are. I've always spoken highly of your country, it's not my problem that Aussies like Big Macs so get over it.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Our country also spends more money publicly and privately on foreign assistance than anyone else. I love it, too when whiners bite the hand that feeds - and protects them. I really think all you ingrates' tune would change if we were to get out of the picture.

With your constant whining about my country, and yes I do tire of it and take offense, all I can say is some "friend" you are. I've always spoken highly of your country, it's not my problem that Aussies like Big Macs so get over it.

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Speech I know you don't like it when we call you fellows on the rhetoric but we get a little fed up with the we saved you crap. I'm not sure what it is you think you are protecting us from. Go protect yourselves from the Cubans, they are a real threat.

Australians don't like Big Macs but your marketing techniques put the small business hamburger shops out of business, so we don't like the way you do business because what you market is an inferior product and you even recognise this yourselves, Ask Michael Moore. I am for the underdog by the way. You call my comments whining when you fail to recognise the truth of what I say. It is time you took a real good look at yourselves because from where I stand, something isn't working.

You want to look at your record on foreign assistance, your percentage of GDP spent on foreign assistance is the low in comparison with developed countries and most of that is tied aid flowing back into your own industries. It doesn't wash speech

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aid

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Speech I know you don't like it when we call you fellows on the rhetoric but we get a little fed up with the we saved you crap. I'm not sure what it is you think you are protecting us from. Go protect yourselves from the Cubans, they are a real threat.

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If I had said that you may have a point, but I didn't.

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Australians don't like Big Macs but your marketing techniques put the small business hamburger shops out of business, so we don't like the way you do business because what you market is an inferior product and you even recognise this yourselves, Ask Michael Moore.

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I couldn't give a rat's arse what Michael Moore says. You can't get any more lunatic - and hypocritical as a man who makes millions slamming the system that made him rich - than him. But yes, McDonald's is an inferior product, but we aren't making Aussies return for more. Or are you saying your lack of self-control is so profound you just couldn't help but support 701 McDonald's restaurants in your country?

Gimme a break and take responsibility, I didn't force a Big Mac down anyone's throat and I darn sure didn't force them to keep coming back for more.

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You want to look at your record on foreign assistance, your percentage of GDP spent on foreign assistance is the low in comparison with developed countries and most of that is tied aid flowing back into your own industries. It doesn't wash speech

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You suffer from the same spin problem as our own leftists. Total dollars from the US dwarfs the rest of the world, and that doesn't include private giving. From your source, our 30,353 (USD millions) is more than double the next, Germany at 12,985 and nearly 8 times yours at 3826. And again that does not take into account private charity abroad which as of 2005 reached nearly 4 times that of our government's foreign aid.

What would you rather have, more dollars or more inefficient federal dollars as a percentage of GNI?

Well I was primarily speaking post WWII . But since you bring it up ;what fleet was there between you and the Japanese?. You telling me that great Aussie fleet that blocked the attack of Darwin ?
Yeah I've always given Australia the credit for putting up it's fair share in the alliance. But you know and I know that without the US umbrella you would've quickly fallen under the sphere of the other super power... just like you will fall under the sphere of China if the US abandons or gets pushed out of the region. That is why you continue the alliance.. out of your own brand of self interest.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

You suffer from the same spin problem as our own leftists. Total dollars from the US dwarfs the rest of the world, and that doesn't include private giving. From your source, our 30,353 (USD millions) is more than double the next, Germany at 12,985 and nearly 8 times yours at 3826. And again that does not take into account private charity abroad which as of 2005 reached nearly 4 times that of our government's foreign aid.

What would you rather have, more dollars or more inefficient federal dollars as a percentage of GNI?

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You suffer from a spin problem yourselves You want to say you give 8 times as much as we do, not that our giving is high on the list but yours is the largest economy and ours is the 13th largest your population is more than fourteen times ours. Our GDP is a 10th of yours and Germany about a fifth of yours. In the days of the Asian tsumani we out gave you many times over
http://www.theage.com.au/news/Asia-tsunami/PM-pledges-1bn-in-aid/2005/01/06/1104832185285.html

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Well I was primarily speakin post WWII . But since you bring it up ;what fleet was there between you and the Japanese ? ....You telling me that great Aussie fleet that blocked the attack of Darwin ?
Yeah I've always given Australia the credit for putting up it's fair share in the alliance. But you know and I know that without the US umbrella you would've quickly fallen under the sphere of the other super power ...just like you will fall under the sphere of China if the US abandons or gets pushed out of the region. That is why you continue the alliance.. out of your own brand of self interest.

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Some sort of twisted history there Tom I think there might have been a US warship sunk in Darwin harbour but I don't recall the US preventing raids on Darwin. I think you might have been eluding to what we call the battle of the Coral Sea where as I recall you and the Japs mauled each other but I thought you were preventing an attack on Port Morsbey.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Coral_Sea
Which as it happens is not in Australia but was at that time in an Australian mandated territory. Some elements of the Australian navy took part in that engagement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Darwin

Thing is Tom smaller countries are always under someone's sphere of influence, the Chinese recently suggested we should consider being under theirs, however we won't desert you yet in your hour of need, our relationship is too long for that, but we don't want to get drawn into a stoush between yourselves and China. We have a long history of fighting someoneelse's battles, first with the British and more recently with you, so we understand something about it you may not. (It is called being screwed no matter which way you turn) It appears to be the price of friendship

Careful Clete, conservetives love to rewrite history. You should see what they want us to think aout the civil war here. They claim it was about states rights, but don't want you to know it was states rights to own slaves.Thats what the shooting was about.

Just like the new war is about church right, but they don't want you to know its about the church being aove the law, and can make everyone do as they want them to, whether they are in the church or NOT!!

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They claim it was about states rights, but don't want you to know it was states rights to own slaves.Thats what the shooting was about.

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I have written plenty of times about the cause of the Civil War ;and you have never seen me write anything about States rights .I don't believe in States Rights . States and the Federal Government have powers . People have rights. Powers of the Federal Government are enumerated and limited . All other powers not given to the Federal Government ,or prohibited by the Constitution belong to the States.
The Civil War was totally a slavery issue.

Same thing with the power of the government to prohibit free exercise. It is a Constitutional restriction .

Why is it my posts disappear

Maybe not you specifically, but conservatives in general.

Conservatives generally delete posts?

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Originally Posted by paraclete

You suffer from a spin problem yourselves You want to say you give 8 times as much as we do, not that our giving is high on the list but yours is the largest economy and ours is the 13th largest your population is more than fourteen times ours. Our GDP is a 10th of yours and Germany about a fifth of yours. In the days of the Asian tsumani we out gave you many times over
Australian aid sets the standard: Oxfam - Asia tsunami - www.theage.com.au

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Really now? Government, NGO and public aid from the US (not including corporate contributions and the assistance of our military) was $2,825,000,000.

From Australia it was $1,322,000,000. How many times over did you out give us?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Careful Clete, conservetives love to rewrite history.

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I didn't know you were a conservative.

That's the problem with conservative friends, and family... they rub off on you!

I would hope so.

Be careful what you wish for. Because repealing Obamacare, and not expanding Medicaid is NOT fiscally responsible. For liberals,or conservatives.

The funniest/sadist part is its RED states that benefit the most, predominately in the south. Boggles my itty bitty brain.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

The funniest/sadist part is ... my itty bitty brain.

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See, we can agree on some things. :p

"The State governments will, in all possible contingencies, afford complete security against invasions of the public liberty by the national authority."
Alexander Hamilton Federalist Paper 28 .

President Rerun is set to announce a "new" proposal to raise taxes on those making $250,000 or more.

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President Obama on Monday will propose a one-year extension of the George W. Bush-era tax cuts for people earning less than $250,000, his latest election-year effort to appeal to middle-class voters.

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Gee, where have I heard that before? And before that?

Even Schmucky Schumer argued that 250k WAS middle class the last around when even Dems bumped it to $1 million and didn't get it through.

One way or another if Obama wins he still plans on raising taxes on those he needs to get the economy moving. I don't see how you can take this guy seriously, he has nothing new to sell you but the same old useless reruns.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

President Rerun is set to announce a "new" proposal to raise taxes on those making $250,000 or more.

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Hello again, Steve:

Couple things... The Bush tax cuts are going to expire. So, either EVERYBODY gets a tax increase, or only those who have done really, REALLY well in the past few years will get one. It's kind of a no brainer for me.

However, in the name of BIPARTISANSHIP, I'm willing to give the "job creators" a tax break... In fact, I'd be quite generous in my tax breakage IF it was tied to ACTUAL job creation. We can do that with tax credits..

What do Chinese laundry's say?? No job creation - no tax breaky.. What?? You want to give 'em ALL a tax break and HOPE?? Dudes.

excon

Well sir, it worked really well for stimulus funds, especially green sector job creation.

If that were on the table we could kick it around but what's on the table is Obama's "third time is a charm" rerun. How's that going to work out?

Obama has created a stifling economic atmosphere and people are going to hold back as long as he perpetuates the uncertainty. This rerun of a rerun isn't going to help anything, it's just more class warfare and we deserve better.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Obama has created a stifling economic atmosphere and people are going to hold back as long as he perpetuates the uncertainty.

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Hello again, Steve:

We've been here before... Our economy WAITS for no man. If I can't get my product OUT the door TODAY, and I "hold back" hiring or investing in a new factory because I'm "uncertain", my customers will go SOMEPLACE else. That is a fact of life here on the front lines.

This word "uncertainty" is a creation of Frank Luntz - just like he's telling the wingers in congress to NEVER say free market health care, but call it "patient centered care", whatever the hell that means..

I thought you right wingers KNEW how the economy works... Guess not, huh? First you tell us that the banks gave away ALL their money because Barney Frank told them too, and NOW you tell us that businessmen are sitting on their haunches WATCHING their companies disintegrate, all the while screaming hysterically about the sky falling... Dude.

excon

Keep listening to rich guys hollering about they need more money, and see if you end up with any. I mean we see what they do with what Bush and the republicans have given them already, they stashed it away for THEIR kids, and created jobs oversas.

What do you think they will do with even more? You got it, send it to the Burmuda triangle, never to be seen again!!

And I knew you were going there, but if customers are holding onto their wallets you won't need to get anything out.

There's no way for instance, that I'll be in the market for a new car any time soon. And, as much as I may want some things, I'm thinking twice a lot more than 5 years ago and I'm far from alone. Consumer confidence just isn't there and class warfare isn't going to make that any better.

I'm surprised that the President isn't following the Clintoon /Corzine model... keep the current tax rates until he wins in November... Then at the beginning of his term ,he can go on national TV and say he tried really really really really really really hard ,but he can't find a way out of the current Obama" recovery" without raising taxes.

He does that by saying we need to extend the tax cuts for those under $250k right now, and we can talk about the others later.

Speaking of taxes...

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Denise Rich, the wealthy socialite and former wife of pardoned billionaire trader Marc Rich, has given up her U.S. citizenship - and, with it, much of her U.S. tax bill.

Rich, 68, a Grammy-nominated songwriter and glossy figure in Democratic and European royalty circles, renounced her American passport in November, according to her lawyer.

Her maiden name, Denise Eisenberg, appeared in the Federal Register on April 30 in a quarterly list of Americans who renounced their U.S. citizenship and permanent residents who handed in their green cards.

By dumping her U.S. passport, Rich likely will save tens of millions of dollars or more in U.S. taxes over the long haul, tax lawyers say.

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Those darn rich Repub... uh, Democrats just keep finding ways to avoid paying their fair share. But then that's the normal reaction when you raise taxes, people (and businesses) flee for friendlier confines. I think we've said that already.

Yup all you need to recall is John Kerry's docking of his yacht .

That's all right Europe needs a boost anyway, if they don't flee to Europe they will flee to the Cayman Islands. Do you really think the rich need to leave the country to avoid tax?

Geez guys don't ruin it. We have a consensus. Every body is for a tax cut for 98% of the population, lets go with it. But watch republicans balk at it, and hold the tax cut hostage unless rich guys get one too! That's what they always do!

Even though EVERYBODY gets a tax cut for the first $250,000, as opposed to Romney's 5 trillion dollar budget buster. So much for wanting to cut the debt/deficit. They just want to cut the middle class because lets be real, rich guys don't seem to need customers to make money. They have hall street.

But we all know congress is on vacation until 2013, so its all talk for now any way.

This is a better story to follow,

http://articles.boston.com/2012-06-2...state-caucuses

The New Republican party, with Mitt as its leader. What if he doesn't win in Nebraska Saturday?

Maryland instituted a "millionaires tax " in 2007 that expired in 2010 . In the 3 years it was in effect ,31,000 fled the state ,and the state lost $1.7 billion in lost tax revenues.
This is not just a one state trend .
Over the past decade, states without an income tax have seen 58% higher population growth than the national average, and more than double the growth of states with the highest income tax rates. What this means for your state of Texas is that you now have 4 new Congressional seats . My State of NY lost 2 as people flee our high tax rate.
I love my state . But when the time comes ,I will flee too. I certainly will not retire here . The property taxes alone is like paying an additional rent on my home on top of the mortgage.

So yeah ,keep piling it on the rich... Who is John Galt ?

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Originally Posted by paraclete

That's all right Europe needs a boost anyway, if they don't flee to Europe they will flee to the Cayman Islands.

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You mean flee from Europe, like the French are about to do.

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Do you really think the rich need to leave the country to avoid tax?

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Ask Denise Rich. Or as tom reminded, just park your yacht in another state.

1,800 Americans renounced citizenship last year .That's a record number since the IRS began publishing a list in 1998. It's 8x more than in 2008, and more than the total for 2007, 2008 and 2009 combined.

This year Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin renounced too.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Geez guys don't ruin it. We have a consensus. Every body is for a tax cut for 98% of the population, lets go with it. But watch republicans balk at it, and hold the tax cut hostage unless rich guys get one too!! Thats what they always do!.

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I've already pointed out that Democrats did not support this idea the first two times. Schumer and Pelosi have already come out again for extending the tax cuts for those making up to a million. You keep blaming it all on Republican obstruction and you have to admit, Obama's tax proposals like his budgets are DOA with Dems, too.

Unlike lock step republicans, democrats are free to express different opinions to their party leaders. So I doubt if it came to a vote Pelosi, and Shimmer would vote against it.

You are right though, it will never get through the house, or senate as long as republicans obstruct it, and hold it hostage for the bogus "job creators", since it's the rights goal to kill progress, and extract wealth.

After all, "the job creators" have lost no wealth, and have thrived greatly while most other have and are still struggling through a recession, and a sluggish recovery. And its sluggish because the fat "job creators" are not being motivated to help push the car out of the ditch. Instead, the fat guys sit in the front and only more money can move them.

While I am on the subject, lets be clear the role republican state governors have played in destroying the middle class, shedding teachers, firefighters, and police and highway workers, while cutting state taxes for those same rich guys who promise jobs, but deliver nothing.

Whose really kicking the middle class in the gut?

Hello again,

I'm a job creator.. I'm just waiting for my taxes to go down before I HIRE a bunch of people...

??

Do you right wingers know how STUPID that sounds??

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

I'm a job creator.. I'm just waiting for my taxes to go down before I HIRE a bunch of people...

?????

Do you right wingers know how STUPID that sounds????

excon

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It does, but I don't hear anyone saying that.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Unlike lock step republicans, democrats are free to express different opinions to their party leaders. So I doubt if it came to a vote Pelosi, and Shimmer would vote against it.

You are right though, it will never get thru the house, or senate as long as republicans obstruct it, and hold it hostage for the bogus "job creators", since its the rights goal to kill progress, and extract wealth.

After all, "the job creators" have lost no wealth, and have thrived greatly while most other have and are still struggling thru a recession, and a sluggish recovery. And its sluggish because the fat "job creators" are not being motivated to help push the car out of the ditch. Instead, the fat guys sit in the front and only more money can move them.

While I am on the subject, lets be clear the role republican state governors have played in destroying the middle class, shedding teachers, firefighters, and police and highway workers, while cutting state taxes for those same rich guys who promise jobs, but deliver nothing.

Whose really kicking the middle class in the gut?

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Tal, you sound like a broken record.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

It does, but I don't hear anyone saying that.

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Hello again, Steve:

Okee doakee, then. How about THIS?

I'm UNCERTAIN about the future so I'm NOT going to HIRE anybody. Does it matter whether I NEED to hire somebody or not?? Nahhh, uncertainty is the key??

Do you know how stupid THAT sounds?

excon