Ask Me Help Desk - Debt limit

Standing in the way of what, disaster? I hope they continue to do so as the Democrats obviously think more spending is going to make it all better. Do you really believe that increasing the debt is going to help us reduce it? Do you really believe all their Orwellian talk about "revenues" and "shared sacrifice?" When almost half the country pays no taxes how is that "shared sacrifice?" I know, I'm "sacrificing" my hard-earned money so half the country they can have their share, which seems to be the left's definition of "fair share."

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

When almost half the country pays no taxes how is that "shared sacrifice?"

Hello again, Steve:

I don't know... I'll bet if you portrayed life as it IS, rather than right wing ideology, you would see the shared sacrifice... But, if you wish to remain blind to reality...

This might be a good time to reprint my earlier rant on the FOX news thread.. I guess you missed it, since it pertains to your post above.
------------------------------
Hello again, Steve:

I'm not saying FOX ain't popular. I AM saying FOX is wrong- dead wrong!

Let me give you an example... I was listening to John Gibson on FOX radio yesterday. Do they count? Well, he was WRONG - dead wrong... He was ranting on about how HALF of the people don't pay any taxes... (You got the email, didn't you?) He went on for 15 minutes or so, bemoaning about the unfairness of it all. He was yelling, they pay NOTHING, NADA, ZIPPO, ZERO. He asked if it was FAIR that HALF the people PAY NO TAX AT ALL! He was pissed off. He was indignant. He was righteous! And, he was WRONG.

The group Gibson was talking about PAY state sales taxes... They PAY city sales taxes... They PAY property taxes... They PAY FICA federal taxes... They PAY federal unemployment taxes.. They PAY federal taxes on their phone.. They PAY federal taxes on their gasoline. They pay federal taxes on their internet..

They pay LOTS of taxes... The only tax they DON'T pay, are federal income taxes... That's because they don't make enough. Now, you can SAY it's not fair that the poor don't pay income taxes. But, you can't say they don't pay taxes at all.

That would be, what shall I call it - a LIE! A BIG fat, pants on fire LIE.

excon

1 Attachment(s)

OK, let me rephrase since you don't seem to get the implied meaning, federal income tax. Local sales tax nets the feds nothing, if they pay property taxes it remains local and I have no figures on state taxes, do you? Their $6 a month phone and internet tax is not a "fair share" and their withholding is returned to them every year. So what's your point?

Who pays income taxes

Hello again, Steve:

So, if the problem is that both you and John Gibson FORGOT to insert the word INCOME taxes into your diatribe, I'll accept your correction.

excon

From Who Pays Taxes? | Mother Jones

http://motherjones.com/files/images/..._0.preview.jpg

Quote:

Well, tax day is Thursday, the media needed a good story, and the Drudge Report—which seems to serve as the assignment editor for 90 percent of the television producers in America—featured the story on its front page. As you may know, the Drudge Report has an agenda. And as you may suspect, the TPC study is misleading without context. Cable news is terrible at providing context. But this is one of those cases where excluding the context essentially makes the story wrong. Focusing on income taxes when you discuss Americans' tax burden ignores the fact that most Americans pay more in payroll taxes than they do in federal income tax. The truth is that only a very small percentage of Americans pay no federal taxes—and most of those folks are paying at least some state taxes.

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Todd: Let me jump to another topic, Scott Ferguson, he's upset about taxes, he says: "Explain how raising taxes on anyone during a deep recession is going to help with the economy." And he actually wants to you look at historical markers where this has been — you say, you know, where this has been a helpful thing coming out of a recession.

Obama: Well, first of all, he is right. Normally, you don't raise taxes in a recession, which is why we haven't and why we have instead cut taxes. So I guess what I would say to Scott is his economics are right, you don't raise taxes in a recession. We haven't raised taxes in a recession. We don't have a…

Todd: But you might for health care. You might for the highest -- for some of the wealthiest.
Obama: The — we have not proposed a tax hike for the wealthy that would take effect in the middle of a recession. Even the proposals that have come out of Congress, which, by the way, were different from the proposals I put forward, still wouldn't kick in until after the recession was over.

So he is absolutely right, the last thing you want to do is to raise taxes in the middle of a recession because that would just suck up — take more demand out of the economy and put businesses in a further hole.

Obama: We must ?help Elkhart reinvent itself? - US news - The Elkhart Project - msnbc.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

From Who Pays Taxes? | Mother Jones

Unlike Drudge I'm sure Mother Jones has no agenda. How do local sales and property taxes and state income taxes help pay down the federal debt, which is what this thread is about.

Letting the Bush tax cuts expire last year would have saved 400 billion dollars of the new debt, and letting them expire in 2012, cuts 800 billion. Any new tax change would not take effect until 2013.

And anyone who has taxes deducted from their paycheck, has to file for it to get it back, after the Feds have made money off it. Seems the problem is some low information constituents have made some screwy assumptions.

They aren't raising taxe RATES for anyone, just closing loopholes that only apply to the rich, and ultra rich, and corporations that pay NO taxes at all.

Stop looking at Fox, or listening to conservatives with an unamerican agenda, why don't cha!!

'unamerican' lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

'unamerican' lol

Fox News Channel controversies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not owned by an american.

About News Corp: News Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Prince Alwaleed bin Talal al-Saud of Saudi Arabia, through his Kingdom Holding Company, owns 7% of News Corp.'s shares, making Kingdom Holdings the second largest shareholder.

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Originally Posted by tomder55
'unamerican' lol

Its unamerican to make billions, and not reinvest it, create jobs, or pay no taxes!!

Is that the capitalism you are so in love with!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

Stop looking at Fox, or listening to conservatives with an unamerican agenda, why don't cha!!!

Well, it is easier than listening to Obama who, as tom pointed out, can't make up his mind if raising taxes in a bad economy is good or bad.

What part of 2013 is so hard to understand??

Really ;you sound like the AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka who said :
we need to fundamentally restructure our economy and re-establish popular control over the private corporations which have distorted our economy and hijacked our government. That's a long-term job, but one we should start now.
Sounds like fascism to me.

What is unamerican is your class warfare rhetoric. What is unamerican is punishing success with punitive confiscatory taxes for the purpose of wealth redistribution . What is unamerican is for the government to tell an earner what they must do with what the government thinks is excess income. Capitalism works when there isn't government command and control .

As an outsider it is the plainest fact you should all be able to see: corporations have hijacked your government.

BTW this is the definition of fascism (you throw it aorund a lot without knowing what it means):
"a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc. and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Or another definition for the board monitor: "the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism."

That's just refers to my definition so we agree on the definition. I'm stating that it doesn't apply to what tom wrote. Why are you replying for him by the way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That's just refers to my definiton so we agree on the definition. I'm stating that it doesn't apply to what tom wrote. Why are you replying for him by the way?

Yes of course, you are always right right sir. I bow to your superior intellect and unquestionable judgment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Yes of course, you are always right right sir. I bow to your superior intellect and unquestionable judgment.

You probably aren't being entirely serious but I am available to help. :)
... without all the hyberbole and sarcasm.

I sure hope the 14th amendment is an option if a deal can't be reached. Both parties are shockingly stupid and stubborn. One doesn't want to raise taxes and the other doesn't want to cut spending even though both are necessary. Obama is finally showing some backbone on this issue and urging them to get a deal made.

Quote:

QUOTE by tomder55;
You sound like the AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka who said :
we need to fundamentally restructure our economy and re-establish popular control over the private corporations which have distorted our economy and hijacked our government. That’s a long-term job, but one we should start now.
Sounds like fascism to me.

Sounds like democracy to me. You know the "We the people" kind of stuff that we built a nation on?

Quote:

What is unamerican is your class warfare rhetoric.

Nothing to do with class, its all about "We the people", fair play, shared prosperity, shared sacrifice during the tough times, and not strict ideology that makes one class better than the other. That gives one class the power over the other, that's based on a agenda of power, motivated by greed. That creates economic bubbles that destroy the fabric of all world economies, in the name of wealth, power, and greed, that's just plain selfish.

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What is unamerican is punishing success with punitive confiscatory taxes for the purpose of wealth redistribution .

Success on the backs of the many, by the few is NOT success. Its ROBBERY!

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What is unamerican is for the government to tell an earner what they must do with what the government thinks is excess income.

Nobody has told them anything last I checked and they sit on the sidelines with their money, and do as they please. Get your facts straight, they don't have to do anything with their LOOT, but have been ASKED to invest, create jobs, and pay taxes, and as a fact, to date, they have done NOTHING, except contribute to political campaigns to get more money through legislative protection. Just ask YOUR hero Karl Rove, or Fox News. In America, we vote for who we want in Government, and the repubs screwed it up once, and got kicked out, snuck back in, (thanks Karl), and are screwing it up again. 2012!!

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Capitalism works when there isn't government command and control .

Capitalism ONLY works when there is sufficient circulation to create demand. Insufficient government regulation allows for less circulation, wealth redistribution, misuse, and abuse through greed, slavery, discontent, chaos, and rip off.

That's just history, and why repeat what led to the Great Depression of 1929, or the Great Recession of 2008?

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

Success on the backs of the many, by the few is NOT success. Its ROBBERY!

ROBBERY is taking my hard-earned dollars and giving them to someone else.

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Capitalism ONLY works when there is sufficient circulation to create demand. Insufficient government regulation allows for less circulation, wealth redistribution, misuse, and abuse through greed, slavery, discontent, chaos, and rip off.

What happens when government runs out of other people's money?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

ROBBERY is taking my hard-earned dollars and giving them to someone else.

So you are opposed to paying any taxes at all? Even when it goes to a fire department, roads or police?

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

ROBBERY is taking my hard-earned dollars and giving them to someone else.

You mean like Wall Street? Or the Corporations who pay NO taxes? Please specify. We all got robbed, it wasn't just you.

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What happens when government runs out of other people's money?

The government should never be broke if all of us pay our fair share. Its OUR government remember? WE elected them. And what part of circulation are you missing? No circulation, no demand, no money, no economy. YOU are the government is the way it works! Why don't it??

You do vote don't you??

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So you are opposed to paying any taxes at all? Even when it goes to a fire department, roads or police?

That's quite the misinterpretation of my oft stated beliefs on the subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

The government should never be broke if all of us pay our fair share.

What is everyone's "fair share"? Is this everyone's "fair share"?

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/attach...eenshot237.jpg

Quote:

You do vote don't you??

You bet your a$$ I do.

Just some things to read up on and get facts so you can read the chart you presented.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/69xx/doc6...rporateTax.pdf

Tax rates around the world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Putting U.S. Corporate Taxes in Perspective — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

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■The United States has plethora of generous corporate tax breaks. As the Treasury Department has noted, the United States' low effective tax rate reflects its “narrow corporate tax base,” which is the result of “accelerated depreciation allowances [and] special tax provisions for particular business sectors … as well as debt finance and tax planning.”[3]

These tax breaks lead to very low tax rates on certain types of investments — even negative rates in some cases. For example, a 2005 Congressional Budget Office study found that the effective marginal corporate rate — the rate paid on the last dollar of income earned and arguably the tax rate most relevant for investment decisions — on debt-financed investment in machinery was negative, estimated at -46 percent.[4] This means that the total value of the deductions that companies may claim for such investment is much larger than the tax they pay. (Put another way, it means that other taxpayers effectively subsidize the investment.) A recent Government Accountability Office study similarly found wide variation in effective tax rates across corporations.[5]

The Treasury Department estimates that various corporate tax breaks will cost the federal government more than $1.2 trillion over the next ten years (2008-2017), a period during which total corporate revenues are projected to equal $3.4 trillion.[7]

We can start with the green energy subsidies that go to OBama supporting ' pay no taxes' GE . Then we can go after the whole corn ethanol industry breaks that Dem favoring Iowa farmers gets . Those would be meaningful "revenue enhancing " reforms. I'd of course would go much further and reform the whole tax code. The President seems content with screwing airplane manufacturing workers in South Carolina and Wichita Kansas.

BTW ; can you please tell me the name of the evil corporation that don't reinvest earnings and don't create jobs. I'm willing to bet you'll mention corporations who hire in the 10s of thousands employees.

He said in his press conference today, that tax reform was on the table and favors cutting loopholes, and lowering the rates. Repubs said NO! No tax cuts at all. Now what? Glad to see you are on the presidents side.

As to the corporations, AND banks, circulate the money, creates DEMAND, and that's how you create jobs opportunities. Ain't that what you guys like as an economy? Supply, and DEMAND? If I can't buy, you can't supply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

Just some things to read up on and get facts so you can read the chart you presented.

Thanks, but I can read just fine. The question remains, what is everyone's "fair share"? Define it for us, please, I'd really like to know exactly what a "fair share" is.

Hello Steve:

If taxes HURT a poor guy, taxes should HURT a rich guy. That would be fair.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Thanks, but I can read just fine. The question remains, what is everyone's "fair share"? Define it for us, please, I'd really like to know exactly what a "fair share" is.

Whatever we can compromise on. That would be fair. Meet you in the middle. FAIR enough?

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon
Hello Steve:

If taxes HURT a poor guy, taxes should HURT a rich guy. That would be fair.

Excon

I go with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello Steve:

If taxes HURT a poor guy, taxes should HURT a rich guy. That would be fair.

excon

So Ex any tax hurts a poor guy but to hurt the rich guy the rate has to be 90%. You cannot honestly think that is fair. I used to live in a nation who had attitudes like that, thank God those people are long gone and now we think 45% is enough pain. Ex all taxation is theft but we are all agree there must be order so taxation is a compromise. We can compromise enough to decide it must be done but not enough to decide how.

Quote:

He said in his press conference today, that tax reform was on the table and favors cutting loopholes, and lowering the rates. Repubs said NO! No tax cuts at all. Now what? Glad to see you are on the presidents side.

I have made no secret about my opinion that the tax code should be overhauled . That is not what the President is proposing at all.
Even if he were ,it should be it's own proposal ,not included in a last minute move to extend the debt limit.

Face it ;the issue with the debt limit is over-spending ;not revenues. I'm opposed to raising the limit period... no negotiations ,they are a waste of time. If there is a crisis in government it's an over-spending one.

Once the government knows it doesn't have a blank check it will finally be forced to make spending priorities. Boehner should concentrate passing immediate legislation compelling the President to make debt service the #1 spending obligation... then go home for the summer .

By the way... Minnesota has been shut down for 10 days... has anyone noticed ?

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Even if he were ,it should be it's own proposal ,not included in a last minute move to extend the debt limit.

We agree, raising te debt ceiling should be a stand alone clean vote.

Wonder who put all that other crap in the game?

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello Steve:

If taxes HURT a poor guy, taxes should HURT a rich guy. That would be fair.

excon

I don't believe taxes should HURT anyone, they should not be punitive.

Eat your peas .

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

eat your peas .

And don't listen to the voices.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

And don't listen to the voices.

You mean this "holy spirit' thing? I know. If you hear voices that tell you to do stuff then there are problems in the head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I don't believe taxes should HURT anyone, they should not be punitive.

Hello again, Steve:

So, you AGREE that the 47% of the people who DON'T pay federal income taxes, SHOULDN'T pay federal income taxes because it'll HURT 'em. I KNEW you'd come around.

excon