Ask Me Help Desk - If burning the Quoran endangers troops

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Back then excon et al. fought in 'Nam to keep this country safe so you could grow up and have rights.

Well, if he was in the continental U.S. during 9/11/01, he definitely wasn't 5,000 miles away, but more like half of that or less.

So... I was handling one of only a few handling most of the secured communications that made the first gulf war possible, FROM overseas. We were in a similar situation then.

Lets see, if YOUR kids get killed in a home invasion... then I can argue its really no different than when it happens to someone across the country.

When I heard the Pentagon was burning... I didn't turn on the TV... I went outside and could see it from the roof of my office.

When they listed the fatalities in the paper... the names of the two guys I worked with all night were in it. To this day I don't know how many other people in that office died, beyond the two names I recognised. I had no way of finding out. It was destroyed, and the Military wasn't going to divulge that info anyway. Thing called "Need to know".

Don't pretend it effected you the same when you didn't know people that actually died... saw them only a few hours earlier, and was almost there yourself, and should have been.

Empathize all you want... but unless you were actually there, you can't grasp its totality.

Ever try that line with a Combat veteran? What response did you get out of curiousity?

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Ever try that line with a Combat veteran? What response did you get out of curiousity?

Hello again, smoothy:

I'm a combat veteran. I say again, to think that YOU, smoothy was attacked, but 99.9% of the REST of us, in this great country, WEREN'T because we weren't there, is the NUTTIEST thing, out of a BUNCH of nutty things, you have ever said... But, I'm sure they'll get nuttier.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

I'm a combat veteran. I say again, to think that YOU, smoothy was attacked, but 99.9% of the REST of us, in this great country, WEREN'T because we weren't there, is the NUTTIEST thing, out of a BUNCH of nutty things, you have ever said.... But, I'm sure they'll get nuttier.

excon

Really... 99.9% of the public was never in their targets and never were at risk of getting killed much less injured.

Try that with many of the people that walked out of the towers or the pentagon, or the first responders, you will be guaranteed to get clocked.

Kudos for doing your part and not running to Canada... just so I acknowledge that part...

However that really isn't parcel to this specific discussion. That's like a clerk in a Depot in Ft Letterkenny saying he was just as much in danger as the poor SOB pulling point duty on a patrol in the jungle of Nam (you name the place) or on one of those godforsaken river patrol boats like my best friend was on. He never saw who was shooting when he was on one and got shot at plenty. Damn near got killed on dry land over there too several times IN TOWN. Surely YOU can relate to THAT analogy... because you are making that same argument.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Really....99.9% of the public was never in their targets

But if you think back to that day, NO ONE knew what the targets were -- the Golden Gate Bridge, the Sears Tower, Mount Rushmore, the Alamo. EVERYONE was scared and EVERYONE felt like a target and NO ONE knew where the next plane would hit -- that day, the next day, every night, the next week, even the next month. We're still holding our collective breath.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

But if you think back to that day, NO ONE knew what the targets were -- the Golden Gate Bridge, the Sears Tower, Mount Rushmore, the Alamo. EVERYONE was scared and EVERYONE felt like a target and NO ONE knew where the next plane would hit -- that day, the next day, every night, the next week, even the next month. We're still holding our collective breath.

Funny... we knew in very little time HOW MANY planes were hijacked and where the last one was headed before the passengers brough it down... in PA. True the first two were a mystery... the Pentagon they knew about only moments before... the forth they tracked for quite a ways before it turned around and headed for DC.

Harry Homeowner in Podunk Idaho was never at risk in his house.

Target #4 was the whitehouse... and depending on the approach angle, my office was easily in downrange debris hitting range.

There WAS a citywide evacuation when that happened. But streets were gridlocked so it was never an option.

THat one if it hadn't been brought down may or may not have effected us... in my office, too many variables.

I however WAS in that Pentagon office, I was asked to stay a few more hours and help them on the next shift... I routinely did do that, in fact that was the ONLY time in the 30 years I have been working, 16 at this employer that I essentually go up and walked out on a customer, told them I could come back later but I really needed to leave right now for a while.

IF 9/11 would not have happened I would have been disciplined and possible fired for that.

But you can not relate to what a combat vet experiences... and you can't relate to what ammounts to narrowly escaping death by pure luck.

You can't relate to what a rape victim goes through, unless you were one, and you can't relate to what child abuse does to a kid if you were nevre abused yourself.

You may think you have an idea... but reality is NOT what imagination makes you think.

Nobody really knows what metal they are made of until they themselves are in that position... some of the strongest people break down, and some of the meekest (is that really a word) rise to show valor.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Harry Homeowner in Podunk Idaho was never at risk in his house.

Harry didn't know he wasn't at risk.

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Nobody really knows what metal they are made of

The word is "mettle" -- a person's ability to cope well with difficulties or to face a demanding situation in a spirited and resilient way.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Nobody really knows what metal they are made of until they themselves are in that position...some of the strongest people break down, and some of the meekest (is that really a word) rise to show valor.

Hello again, smoothy:

So, somebody shot at you and missed. Big deal. Somebody shot at me and didn't miss. Big deal. It didn't make me special, like you think your ordeal made you feel. But, I don't CARE how you feel. Being shot at and MISSED, doesn't entitle you to anything. You AREN'T special. You have no more right to feel anger at being attacked than 300 million other American do.

To say you are SPECIAL, as you continue to do, is arrogant, and it diminishes and trivializes what your fellow Americans feel.

excon

So perhaps we can get back to the thread that seems to be lost, we have an answer, the Muslims in Kashmir (rent a crowd) went nuts over the wack jobs in the US tearing pages out of the Quoran in Washington but I quess they missed the guy smoking it. It seems Iran was upset with Washington and focused their hate there. I think it is interesting we haven't heard from the Muslims in Afghanistan and Pakistan, they might have other things on their mind and in any case you wouldn't want to get too close to the guns

Clete , the nut jobs in Kashmir have been waging civil war on and off since the partition. Why do we have to cower concerned over their reaction ? I for one am sick of walking on egg shells worrying what the Muslim on the street thinks . They take their marching orders from their clerics from the day they are born and nothing we do can change that .The Kashmiri riots were the result of some clown calling himself a man of god stoking the flames... not the burning of the Koran. Let's at least be honest about where the problem lie.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Clete , the nut jobs in Kashmir have been waging civil war on and off since the partition. Why do we have to cower concerned over their reaction ? I for one am sick of walking on egg shells worrying what the Muslim on the street thinks . They take their marching orders from their clerics from the day they are born and nothing we do can change that .The Kashmiri riots were the result of some clown calling himself a man of god stoking the flames....not the burning of the Koran. Let's at least be honest about where the problem lie.

Hey Tom who's asking you to cower, this is the opportunity to show strength and show India the same consideration you have shown Afghanistan unless of course you side with pakistan, difficult to know who your friends are, but a few drones should sort things out, after all they are Muslim militants, aren't they?

I for one have always advocated a close relationship with India. Our "friendship" with the Pakis is a cold war relic.
In your previous reply you referenced Iranian intervention. That appears to be a common thread throughout the ummah.
But not to worry. Our President still has that outstretched hand of friendship waiting to grasp the hands of the delusional homicidal sadistic 12ers .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

. Our President still has that outstretched hand of friendship waiting to grasp the hands of the delusional homicidal sadistic 12ers .

He has a peace prize to justify Tom, hey, did you hear about the brit who is banned from the US for sending BO an offensive email, no outstreached hand there even though the content was probably milder than what Ahamadjihad serves up

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Harry didn't know he wasn't at risk.

The word is "mettle" -- a person's ability to cope well with difficulties or to face a demanding situation in a spirited and resilient way.

Lets just say, I had an inside track as to what was happening before the news reported it... they were pretty quick getting it out however that day.

Actually I thought that was the correct spelling, but wasn't sure. Spell checkers even when you have one only go so far.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

He has a peace prize to justify Tom, hey, did you hear about the brit who is banned from the US for sending BO an offensive email, no outstreached hand there even though the content was probally milder than what Ahamadjihad serves up

The Messiah is pretty thin skinned. Its well known here in Washington how indignent he gets when second guessed or questioned much less when anyone disagrees with his sermons on the mound.

What do you expect from a guy that's what 21 months into the job now (12 months last year and 9 so far this year) and still blames everything he did wrong on someone else that's not even in office, anywhere.

Except of course... the Peace prize, he took credit for that even if he hasn't done anything to earn it at all.

Damn the Norweigans really blew it on that one... the Nobel Peace prize now carries the same value as a McDonalds Happymeal prize. Nobody can ever hold that up again and be taken seriously.

Why do people insist on injection their religion into politics?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Why do people insist on injection their religion into politics?

Well, in Islam politics IS part of the Religion as is every aspect of ones life, think 1984, its even in the bedroom telling what you can do and how often.

Its not simply a religon like most others.

Its like asking a politician to keep their personal viewpoints to themselves when they are supposed to be acting in their constituents interests... It rarely happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paraclete

He has a peace prize to justify Tom, hey, did you hear about the brit who is banned from the US for sending BO an offensive email, no outstreached hand there even though the content was probally milder than what Ahamadjihad serves up

Well that's different. He has a personal grudge against the Brits that goes back to the colonial era. He made it clear early on that he will at best tolerate our special relationship . It has also been obvious that he will neglect relationships with friends while he tries to appease enemies.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

So, somebody shot at you and missed. Big deal. Somebody shot at me and didn't miss. Big deal. It didn't make me special, like you think your ordeal made you feel. But, I don't CARE how you feel. Being shot at and MISSED, doesn't entitle you to anything. You AREN'T special. You have no more right to feel anger at being attacked than 300 million other American do.

To say you are SPECIAL, as you continue to do, is arrogant, and it diminishes and trivializes what your fellow Americans feel.

excon

What is arrogant is what YOU are saying.

I can hear you telling a rape victim to suck it up... you are still alive, YOU aren't special.

Or THe families of First Responders killed or died later of lung problems... because they aren't special.

You on the west coast somehow believe you went through the same thing someone who was actually there did.

If you were a Combat Veteran like you said... the Clerk in Headquarters can claim he went through the same thing you went through on Patrol when you encountered VC or NVA. Because after all, you weren't special, and it diminished the hardships the people in the rear had to deal with as opposed to hose in the field.

Yeah, right, and I have some prime Kanasas ocean front property to sell you if you believe that.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

...think 1984, its even in the bedroom telling what you can do and how often.

Sounds like the Christian right.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Sounds like the Christian right.

You won't get stoned to death by the Christian right anyplace in the world, in fact most on the christian right don't give a damn what you do in the bedroom... you will get stoned to death in an Islamic country where Sharia is the rule of law.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

You won't get stoned to death by the Christian right anyplace in the world, in fact most on the christian right don't give a damn what you do in the bedroom......you will get stoned to death in an Islamic country where Sharia is the rule of law.

Yea but that wasn't what I was commenting on was it? You keep moving the goal posts. ADHD?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Yea but that wasn't what I was commenting on was it? You keep moving the goal posts. ADHD?

I responded to YOUR comments. And it's a valid answer to your comment. You compared the Christian right to Islam telling you what you can do in the bedroom.

Post #99

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Originally Posted by smoothy
...think 1984, its even in the bedroom telling what you can do and how often.

Sounds like the Christian right.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

If you were a Combat Veteran like you said

He was and didn't run from the scene, but stuck it out and sucked it up and was there for his buddies.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

He was and didn't run from the scene, but stuck it out and sucked it up and was there for his buddies.

Go back and read the rest of the post again you clipped that segment out of instead of editing a quote heavily and presenting it out of context.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paraclete

Hey Tom who's asking you to cower, this is the opportunity to show strength and show India the same consideration you have shown Afghanistan unless of course you side with pakistan, difficult to know who your friends are, but a few drones should sort things out, after all they are Muslim militants, arn't they?

I do have to give you credit as one of the few people who get AfPakia in the broader context of the India -Pakistan conflicts. I for one am sympathetic with the separatist inside Kashmir. Being part of either Pakistan of India doesn't do them justice.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Go back and read the rest of the post again you clipped that segment out of instead of editing a quote heavily and presenting it out of context.

I was remarking on his behavior vs. yours.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I was remarking on his behavior vs. yours.

No... you heavily edit a quote and throw it out there like that was actually a single quote I made when that is NOT what I wrote in that thread...

That is rude, and dishonest to do.

Did you know EXACTLY what it was like to lose a parent until you actually did? Nope

By YOUR claims I can claim that I knew EXACTLY what he felt In Vietnam In the Jungle getting shot at because I saw it on TV.

And the fact is... I can't because I wasn't THERE in Vietnam getting shot at from people I couldn't even see...

Its statements like your and others that actually belittle his experiences as a Combat Vet... because TV can not pass more than images and sound... you can't know what its like to be in a situation unless you were actually there... you may THINK you do... but until you actually are you don't really know what you will do, or how you will react.

... exactly the same as claims by people who were visciosly arguing I can't possibly felt the impact MORE because I was there while THEY saw it on TV.

Ever see a guy get shot in the chest from 20 feet away with a .45 Colt? Ever find a dead body a few days ofter they passed? Was it anything like watching it on TV? Ever see a decapitated body in a traffic accident shortly after it happened? Heck no it wasn't, and honestly, that is a good thing. See I have over the years.

I may not agree with excon on a lot of things... but I do know nobody can claim they know what something is like exactly until they have been there themselves.

And like other things... you don't know what its like in combat unless you yourself were in combat. Its NOT like playing a video game.

I have never belittled anyone's combat service they were honest about. And I get irked when anyone suggests I have.

TV is a poor substitute for reality.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

That is rude, and dishonest to do.

No, I wasn't being that way. You totally missed the point I was making.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

No, I wasn't being that way. You totally missed the point I was making.

Well, if you weren't... it certainly appeared that way if you took the time to edit it to read exactly the opposite as it was posted in the thread.

Look at it literally as you quoted it, as if someone did not read the thread you pulled it from. What would it appear to them as?

See my point now?

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Originally Posted by smoothy

See my point now?

Nope.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Nope. I know Alice and she definately wasn't tripping when she stepped through the mirror.

What you qouted made it look like a disrespectful swipe at a Combat vet because it was heavily edited.

There was nothing that I wrote in that post that was disrepectful to someone's military service.

Editing a quote is easy... see I did it... but it you are going to quote.. leave sentances intact... it doesn't make it look like you are dreaming stuff up.

Did you or did you not say exactly what is in the quote above?

No... and neither did I say exactly what you had in your guote.

Now lets just say... you misunderstood what I wrote... and your post came across differently than you wanted to say... and leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Nope. I know Alice and she definitely wasn't tripping when she stepped through the mirror.

Where did the words after "nope" come in? I didn't post them, and I definitely can spell "definitely" correctly!

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What you qouted made it look like a disrespectful swipe at a Combat vet because it was heavily edited.

What I quoted was a salute to excon for being a brave combat soldier who was wounded in battle.

I too can say: There was nothing that I wrote in that post that was disrespectful to someone's military service.

Same place the words after what you attributed to me went... into and out of the ether.

did you go back and read what I wrote in that post in its entirety?

excon could no more claim to feel EXACTLY what I felt on 9/11 (due to my circumstances that thus far are unique in this thread.) Than I could feel exactly what he felt on patrol in the Nam Jungle because I saw it on TV like he saw 9/11 on TV.

Now this assumes he did actually see combat... I have to assume he did, you said it.. he didn't, but I'm willing to take it as fact.

Unlike most of the left... I don't automatically assume anything the other side says if false.

If you have never been shot... how can you say you know exactly what it feels like when he has (or whatever the injury was).

Fact is... I've never been shot, you've never been shot... there is no way OUR experience can be equal to his on the topic, no matter how active an imagination we might have.

Same issue of the 9/11 experience... there is no way those who were not there could feel EXACTLY the same as those of use who were directly.

Also... the same argument... using the same rules..

is any guy claiming they know exactly what Childbnirth is like... after all, they watched it on TV. Yeah right... you know it hurts like hell, but there is no possible way you can know EXACTLY if you haven't been there and done that yourself.

And there have been HOW many pages arguing TV = Real life experience so far?

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Unlike most of the left....I don't automatically assume anything the other side says if false.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

If you were a Combat Veteran like you said....

Hello again, smoothy:

No, of course you don't.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

I do have to give you credit as one of the few people who get AfPakia in the broader context of the India -Pakistan conflicts. I for one am sympathetic with the separatist inside Kashmir. Being part of either Pakistan of India doesn't do them justice.

Yes Tom but you have to be sensible, Asia, doesn't need another small land locked country surrounded by belligerent neighbours. It isn't so much separatism but a Muslim majority wanting to be part of Pakistan, not ruled by a Hindu majority nation, which was after all the reason for forming Pakistan. I wouldn't doubt there might be good reasons for the federally administered terrorities being excised from Pakistan because of tensions, also but seriously we can't partition off all the trouble spots.

What Pakistan has to realize is that they have no fear of an India invasion . Then they wouldn't need buffers like Kashmir and Afghanistan .

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

What Pakistan has to realize is that they have no fear of an India invasion . Then they wouldn't need buffers like Kashmir and Afghanistan .

Paranoia, smaller state and, of course, history, both recent and ancient, all figure in this. Kashmir isn't seen as a buffer, but as part of the Ummah and Afghanistan, perhaps it was a buffer against Russia, but I expect it is more of a nuiance and a source of Muslim militancy. Pakistan is a cobbled together nation, diverse ethnic groups and languages. It could take another century to get a true national consensus and they have that shiia/sunni thing going on

Obviously, not only are drawing cartons out of the question, so is joking about it.

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'Everybody Draw Mohammed' Cartoonist Goes Into Hiding

Molly Norris, the Seattle cartoonist whose joking suggestion for an "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" earned her a fatwa from religious extremists, has been forced into hiding, for her own safety.

The Seattle Weekly, which ran Norris' comics, said yesterday that "on the insistence of top security specialists at the FBI, she is, as they put it, "going ghost": moving, changing her name, and essentially wiping away her identity." For the moment, at least, she's no longer publishing cartoons, or doing anything else, except hiding from cowardly fanatics who would kill a human being over a stupid cartoon.

Outrageous. Come back soon, Molly.

Go ahead, let's see all you Muslim apologists defend this one.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

except hiding from cowardly fanatics who would kill a human being over a stupid cartoon....... Go ahead, let's see all you Muslim apologists defend this one.

Hello again, Steve:

I'm sorry, Steve. I don't, and haven't ever apologized for "cowardly fanatics". Muslims, on the other hand, don't need apologizing for, any more than Christians do.

You DID, however, hit the nail on the head with your post... YOU, like smoothy, can't tell the difference between Muslims and fanatics. That's not good.

excon

We see a difference... its the left that can't. They have spent decades fighting anything that hints of christianity who have no "Rights" apparently... They however are quick to back anything Muslims want to do as it being their "right". Even when its Muslims that aren't even American having rights to do anything they want on our soil.