NK Clete
Turns out you have less an understanding of the US system than I have of the Canadian .

I think that someone from Quebec should demand the same services the other provinces get. In fact;if anyone is denied any treatment or drug they should demand it because it's one of those unalienable rights you claim everyone has.

The truth is that here in the US nobody is denied needed food, housing ,education, or medical care . The safety net is designed however for the needy. What you think is needed is a larger safety net to cover the middle class and in the case of medical and "retirement" a universal safety net regardless of means.

That is unsustainable and you know it . Every western nation under that system will collapse under the burden eventually ;especially given the demographic trends of the West

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The truth is that here in the US nobody is denied needed food, housing ,education, or medical care .

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Hello tom:

Black is white and white is black... I don't know about you, but in MY city, I see homeless people. I see hungry people. I see sick people... Maybe YOUR city is better than mine. Or maybe you just don't want to see those people.

The TRUTH is NOT in the possession of right wingers.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello tom:

Black is white and white is black.... I dunno about you, but in MY city, I see homeless people. I see hungry people. I see sick people.... Maybe YOUR city is better than mine. Or maybe you just don't wanna see those people.

The TRUTH is NOT in the possession of right wingers.

excon

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Hospitals send homeless to new after-care program | hospital, bushay, patients - Life - The Orange County Register

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Hospitals send homeless to new after-care program

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Hello again, dad:

Yes, there ARE programs... Does that mean you don't see any homeless people in your city? You don't have any of 'em on your off ramps with signs begging for money? You don't see 'em sleeping in your library's and in your doorways? You think everybody in your city goes to sleep at night with a full stomach? You don't think there are poor people without health care in your city?

Is THAT what you're inferring by linking me to the article? I don't know about you, but even after reading the article, I'm not convinced... That's because, I believe my lying eyes.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, dad:

Yes, there ARE programs... Does that mean you don't see any homeless people in your city? You don't have any of 'em on your off ramps with signs begging for money? You don't see 'em sleeping in your library's and in your doorways? You think everybody in your city goes to sleep at night with a full stomach? You don't think there are poor people without health care in your city?

Is THAT what you're inferring by linking me to the article? I dunno about you, but even after reading the article, I'm not convinced... That's because, I believe my lying eyes.

excon

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For shame. I thought you would find it interesting reading. It had bits about both sides including patient dumping etc. It seems to be more real world then a lot of hit pieces. And no there aren't homeless where I live. Heck there are more animals then people.. lol.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Hospitals send homeless to new after-care program | hospital, bushay, patients - Life - The Orange County Register

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Mmm, maybe Toronto's homeless (and some of them disabled) should come down there. Queen sized beds, TV, ultimate food experience. We have soup kitchens in Toronto and the hospices are full, but they do get cots to sleep on, and 3 meals a day, but I don't think TVs to watch, unless there is a common room in the Scot's mission.

Tick

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Originally Posted by tomder55

A bunch of Canadian Liberal Party thinkers got togther to discuss various issues ....a "thinkers conference" . One of the issues they discussed was the state of the national health care program .

The solution to the myriad of problems facing their system ? Well;according to reporting in the 'Montreal Gazette :


Carbon tax a hot topic at Liberals' conference

Ah yes ....new taxes aint it always the way ? Maybe they should listen instead to President Obama who swears that his "magic solution" will cut taxes and reduce the deficit.

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Here we go again, you know I am in healthcare and I don't see a problem and I haven't got blinkers on. I take care of seniors in their homes because, if they can live in their homes, nursing homes is not an option for them. I drive them to appointments and I don't see any wait lists for chemo in Kingston or Oshawa, two of the biggest cancer centres in my area. MRIs, hey, no problem, just walk in, catscans, the same. Dialysis three times a week for clients who are pretty badly off with kidney failure, no problem.

So why don't you listen toto the (oops) common people when they say there is no problem with the Canadian healthcare system.

Montreal Gazette, gosh, that article wasn't in the Toronto Star.

Tick

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Originally Posted by excon

Black is white and white is black... I don't know about you, but in MY city, I see homeless people. I see hungry people. I see sick people...

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I read tom's post and didn't see any denial of that, just the mention that our safety net is designed for those needy, not the middle class. I know I've said it many times, if that's who we need to help then let's help them, but the Dems "social justice" as in Obamacare is and was never about helping those who need it.

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The TRUTH is NOT in the possession of right wingers.

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It darn sure isn't coming out from the other side...

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Originally Posted by tickle

Here we go again, you know I am in healthcare and I dont see a problem and I havent got blinkers on. I take care of seniors in their homes because, if they can live in their homes, nursing homes is not an option for them. I drive them to appointments and I dont see any wait lists for chemo in Kingston or Oshawa, two of the biggest cancer centres in my area. MRIs, hey, no problem, just walk in, catscans, the same. Dialysis three times a week for clients who are pretty badly off with kidney failure, no problem.

So why dont you listen toto the (oops) common people when they say there is no problem with the Canadian healthcare system.

Montreal Gazette, gosh, that article wasnt in the Toronto Star.

tick

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Yes, working in health care myself.

Ex I stand by what I said. The fact that there are homless doesn't negate the fact that the services are there for them if they chose to use them .Maybe the issue is a poor public information system where they don't know what public services are available . Or perhaps they make the choice to stay out of the public housing for whatever reason .

So the bottom line is your argument that there are homeless is a strawman because I never said there weren't homeless. I say with the services /safety net available and an efficient distribution system that admittedly is not there , there need not be.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Where do you get this stuff from? You have been listening to insurance company propoganda. The government doesn't make life style choices for me, it supports whatever choice I make but it does endevour to have me make the right choice through information. I am probally personally paying for some wrong life style choices when I was younger but the government says nothing about that in it's approach to providing health care. Unlike your insurance companies it does not discriminate for pre-existing conditions.

The reality is you just don't get it because you live in a society which has a wrong idea of what freedom is really about. Freedom and Liberty is about every person having an equal opportunity to enjoy life to the fullest. Freedom isn't about every person doing his damnest to climb over the top of every other person.

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When government taxes certain things and not other things, the government does influence your choices. Things like, gas, or cigarettes or alcohol. How about taxes on carbon usage or fat content in food - is this government allowing you freedom to make choices without the force or penalty of taxes? Is that type of government really about the freedom of its citizens?

Speaking of freedom, our society wants the freedom to do whatever they please but not the responsibility that comes with it. If individual A chooses to smoke and /or eat in excess, thus becoming obese, or does not exercise on a regular basis, they are free to do so but do they accept the responsibility of poor health and higher health insurance premiums that comes with those choices? Should individual B, who chooses to lead a healthy lifestyle, have to pay higher premiums in order to subsidize the freedom of individual B' poor health choices.

As to your last statement, I and most Americans would not characterize freedom that way. A certain, ahem liberal, ideology may.


G&P

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, dad:

Yes, there ARE programs... Does that mean you don't see any homeless people in your city? You don't have any of 'em on your off ramps with signs begging for money? You don't see 'em sleeping in your library's and in your doorways? You think everybody in your city goes to sleep at night with a full stomach? You don't think there are poor people without health care in your city?

Is THAT what you're inferring by linking me to the article? I dunno about you, but even after reading the article, I'm not convinced... That's because, I believe my lying eyes.

excon

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I do see these folks. I donate to Salvation Army, to God's Pantry, to church, to goodwill. I've bought food for those on the side of the road. In my line of work , healthcare, there is care that I give that I know I will not get paid for. I, my wife, my kids, we do those things because we see it and because of Matthew 25:40. I will not leave it solely to government to take care of the wrong things we see.



G&P

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Originally Posted by inthebox

As to your last statement, I and most Americans would not characterize freedom that way. A certain, ahem liberal, ideology may.

G&P

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What I said to you is that every person should have an equal opportunity to enjoy life to the fullest and you call this liberal ideology. I suspect it was the very basis of what americans hold so high, their revolution and constitution. I seriously think that after two hundred years some have lost sight of the original objective. What is implicit in my statement is the need to respect the rights of others in your society not trample them down and take advantage of them, because this denies them equal opportunity. I would rather have a "liberal" ideology than the selfish capitalist ideology of laizze faire. What we have found is the activities of some have to be regulated, and what do we find even in your own society equal opportunity had to be regulated into existence in order to exist and those who would exercise economic power to excess had to be restricted. I suspect you also regard this as a "liberal" ideology unsuited to an american society. In other words; let the minorities remain slaves and the exploiters and criminals rip every one off

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Originally Posted by paraclete

What i said to you is that every person should have an equal opportunity to enjoy life to the fullest and you call this liberal ideology. I suspect it was the very basis of what americans hold so high, their revolution and constitution. I seriously think that after two hundred years some have lost sight of the original objective. What is implicit in my statement is the need to respect the rights of others in your society not trample them down and take advantage of them, because this denies them equal opportunity. I would rather have a "liberal" ideology than the selfish capitalist ideology of laizze faire. What we have found is the activities of some have to be regulated, and what do we find even in your own society equal opportunity had to be regulated into existence in order to exist and those who would exercise economic power to excess had to be restricted. I suspect you also regard this as a "liberal" ideology unsuited to an american society. In other words; let the minorities remain slaves and the exploiters and criminals rip every one off

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Exactly

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

It does not matter what organization thinks what, what matters is what Canadians think.

It is not an insult it is the truth. There is a big difference.

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If YOU are happy with it great (in fact I am glad you are getting what you consider sufficient service where you live) I do believe in getting what you pay for. But a lot of other Canadians aren't. Or they wouldn't be spending huge sums of cash to get services here in the USA they can't get in Canada, or can't wait for or don't want to wait for. And that is true among much of the border... not just in New York, and it's not just Quebec.

It may not be an option for those living far from our borders or lacking the money to take advantage of it. But those doctors here they come to are grateful for the extra income I'm sure, whatever their personal reason for coming.

smoothy, it isn't that they can't get the what they want in Canada, it's that they don't want to wait for what they can get. They also have to be quite wealthy to make that decision, and it usually is a life threatening condition such as heart disease that is putting them over the border. If you are wealthy and can make that instant decision, thenn that is your prerogrative to do so.

When we lived in the States and just started up our own business, just the two of us, we couldn't get health insurance and I had a baby. That was okay, $700 put me in delivery, no fetal monitors and I was 39. I was out the next day with my son. Then, at three he started having seizures, they thought he had meningitis. It cost my mom, from Canada, $5000 US to come bail him out at the hospital for two day stay. Back to Canada for sure and under OHIP coverage was all I wanted if he was going to have further problems.

Then at l7 he was diagnosed with a heart condition and now at 27 has a defibrillator, all covered by OHIP,

So I can't complain and I am just a normal healthy Canadian who hopefully will not have to scrape money together to get a quicky operation in the US.

My point is smooth, I know for a fact that the only Canadians who have surgery across the border can afford to do so, but then on the other hand, there are some procedures that OHIP will cover for them in the U.S. So it's a win win situation.

Tick

See, that's part of my point... if it's a serious or life threatening situation, WHY are they making you wait? That's EXACTLY when you need treatment, and you need it now.

Here you would get it, NOW. Even if you had no insurance at all.

I'm not saying its cheap, paying cash... and not all of them ARE rich. Many are using savings to pay for it, and are willing to do it because HERE they CAN get it, while at home in Canada they are told to wait months they may not survice. Or that will seal their fate, Cancer being a perfect example of waiting sealing your fate, even if immediate death right that moment might not be. Beating cancer is mostly about finding it fast, treating it quickly and aggressively.

Wait months and it grows even worse, maybe metastisizing from something easily treatible, to something untreatible... I.E. Stage 4 cancer.

That's not the only case... just one example of where time is everything.


I'm not arguing the Canadian system is essentually worthless...

What I am arguing is that its seriously lacking when people are in the most dire need of care in a timely fashion.

I have to disagree. That if it is emergency situation that it will be taken care of. You do not have to wait for emergency surgery at all. That is a crock...

If it is life threatening then it is taken care of right away. There would be no time to go to the states. It is the non emergency surgery that will send people else where if they want it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

I have to disagree. That if it is emergency situation that it will be taken care of. You do not have to wait for emergency surgery at all. That is a crock...

If it is life threatening then it is taken care of right away. There would be no time to go to the states. It is the non emergency surgery that will send people else where if they want it.

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My wife's aunt had to wait 4 months to have surgery for diverticulitis in Canada... she was in so much discomfort she was bedridden for that time... at HOME no less.

While she was a citizen of Canada... she wasn't native born... and she was over 60, so not of any real value to the Canadian Goverments eyes.

That's not a crock... that is reality. And Diverticulitis can very well be a fatal condition... PARTICULARLY when it is causing problems that severe.

Yeah many people live with it years, but none suffer like THAT without being allowed needed surgery except in Canada. You might be operated on by an incompetent Dr. for that in Italy... but you wouldn't have to wait months for it. And yes... my father in law died of complecations and misdiagnossis, and 5 surgeries in 3 months... the last 4 in 3 weeks time. If it was in the USA... it would be Malpractice... but with socialized Medicine... its exceptionally hard to file suit much less provide enough proof to win when THEY can make the evidence disappear.

He did actually have it... they misdiagnosed it until it became an intestinal blockage and more severe.

Those are examples of my actual relatives that had problems... not news stories or claims by third parties unrelated to the patient.


And we are NOT comparing small remote towns in the Northern Territories to USA major cities. That would be unfair.

Montreal is not a small town. Nor is the City in Italy I also referred to as examples.

You keep bringing up montreal.. Montreal is not the whole country of canada.

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

You keep bringing up montreal.. Montreal is not the whole country of canada.

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Montreal is part of Canada... NOT the USA. And its NOT the worst, or poorest city in Canada. I honestly have no idea who holds title to that distinction, though I am curious who does.

Yeah I do understand the animosity other parts of Canada may have with Quebec... yeah we did hear about them wanting to secede and all.

But hey... we don't think much of Camden , NJ but we are stuck with it too. Same with Sanfrancisco... most of the USA thinks its populated by fruits and loons... and until it slides into the Ocean its part of the USA. (I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen).

[QUOTE=smoothy;2302704)

While she was a citizen of Canada...she wasn't native born...and she was over 60, so not of any real value to the Canadian Goverments eyes.


[/QUOTE]

That's a hard statement to make. As soon as immigrants arrive in Canada, they are GIVEN HEALTHCARE BENEFITS even before they become citizens. I know this isn't your point, but smoothy, if she paid her taxes, whether she was an immigrant or not had nothing to do with real value. What the heck does that mean ? Are you saying because she was over 60, but wasn't born in Canada, then the government thought she was worthless? I don't think so.

Canada is a pretty wide country, smoothy, we have cities which are thousands of miles away from each other between Ontario and British Columbia, not all medical centres are furnished the right way or have proper funding. We are lucky in the eastern Provinces, which I think are the richest, to have state of the art hospitals, state of the art children's hospitals, well equipped cancer centres.

Before you start casting stones, why don't you stop readingthe propaganda and drivel and come up and explore these options yourself. Most of you can sit down there on your computers and site articles written by people not qualified to even talk about healthcare. They are a drop in the bucket.

tick

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Originally Posted by tickle

Thats a hard statement to make. As soon as immigrants arrive in Canada, they are GIVEN HEALTHCARE BENEFITS even before they become citizens. I know this isnt your point, but smoothy, if she paid her taxes, whether or not she was an immigrant or not had nothing to do with real value. What the heck does that mean ? Are you saying because she was over 60, but wasnt born in Canada, then the government thought she was worthless? I dont think so.

Canada is a pretty wide country, smoothy, we have cities which are thousands of miles away from each other between Ontario and British Columbia, not all medical centres are furnished the right way or have proper funding. We are lucky in the eastern Provinces, which I think are the richest, to have state of the art hospitals, state of the art children's hospitals, well equipped cancer centres.

Before you start casting stones, why dont you stop readingthe propaganda and drivel and come up and explore these options yourself. Most of you can sit down there on your computers and site articles written by people not qualified to even talk about healthcare. They are a drop in the bucket.

tick

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My point is when you have someone other than your doctor, deciding who gets what and if they even get it (because they will allow X number of procedures that year)... someone gets screwed. They prioratize who gets the limited resources and who gets screwed. And someone will when demand excedes ability to deliver. Which Obviously is the case if there is ever a waiting list.

Obviously an elderly immigrant housewife and widow is less important than a much younger Natural Born Canadian who has the right party affiliations.

That's how the world works... and Canada isn't exempt from it, and it does happen anyplace anything is rationed anywhere.

So my wife's aunt is now an Anti-Canadian propagandist?

Care to extablish a little proof of that? Because actually I know her in real life, and she has NO reason to lie or exagerite... its not in her nature. And if she wanted to leave Canada sho would... she does hold more than a Canadian Passport, just not an American one. She stays because her family is all there.

You like everyone else on this thread however I know only from this site. You could really be the Canadian Prime Minister in real life... or anyone else with an internet connection. Not a swipe... but on one hand, real person I know, other hand, someone on a computer telling me something different than people I know say as well as other sources who are NOT anti-Canadian.

And No... I am not Anti-Canadian.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoothy

.





So my wifes aunt is now an Anti-Canadian propagandist?

Care to extablish a little proof of that? Because actually I know her in real life, and she has NO reason to lie or exagerite...its not in her nature. And if she wanted to leave Canada sho would....she does hold more than a Canadian Passport, just not an American one. She stays because her family is all there.

.

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So where did I say this ? Is that what you got out of what I said. You are putting words in my mouth that weren't there and turning it around to say that I think she is a propagandist? I don't ever hear words like that where I come from. She is younger then me. I am third generation Canadian. Sixty eight this year and working passed retirement. And she probably worked hard all her life too.So why would I say she was anything different in this world we live in then me?

Tick

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Originally Posted by tickle

so where did I say this ? Is that what you got out of what I said. You are putting words in my mouth that werent there and turning it around

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That's why that person is on my ignore list.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That's why that person is on my ignore list.

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I think I might follow your suit. I have no idea why our system is of their concern, or why I am defending it.

Tick

Conversely Canadians on this board are very free with their opinion /critique of our system... and that goes well beyond our healthcare .

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Originally Posted by tickle

so where did I say this ? Is that what you got out of what I said. You are putting words in my mouth that werent there and turning it around to say that I think she is a propagandist? I dont ever hear words like that where I come from. She is younger then me. I am third generation Canadian. Sixty eight this year and working passed retirement. And she probably worked hard all her life too.So why would I say she was anything different in this world we live in then me?

tick

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Last paragraph of post #102 by you. I got this information directly FROM my Canadian in-laws... so if that's reading propaganda, then that would make them propagandists by your own words. I trust what THEY say more than what any newspaper might write. Newspapers are highly biased to the reporters and editors beliefs, and do frequently fabricate stories to push an agenda.

The Washington Post, and New York Times have both been caught doing that... and for TV news... Dan Rather at CBS was caught doing it as well. No I can't provide Canadian equivalents... that news would rarely make it this far south.

Individuals are more direct and honest about their experience. Years of personal direct experience has shown me that.

And for those praising the Canadian health system... exactly how many of you have had experience with ANY system (and where was it) that doesn't establish quotas or rationing of any sort in recent years.

If I need something here... I never wait more than a few days for an appointment to get that test... and that's working around MY schedule, I could usually get those within 24 hours of my doctors request, if I was more flexible. And only because they don't do them in-house.

I do get to see a doctor the day I request it when I have any concerned.

I've had surgeries the day of the injury... and in less pressing cases within several days.

The only waiting lists we have in the USA is for organ transplants. Because obviously demand far excedes supply by donors. Not one artificially created by some accountants budget.


And no.. the insurance carrier does not say... we can only provide X number of that procedure this month... you have to go on a waiting list for next month. The lawyers and courts would have a field day if they did. And rightfully so.


Do I think OUR system is perfect? No, there is always room for improvement... but I think it is far better than the Canadian System, or the European system. I'd rather be in a hospital here than anywhere in Canada or Europe. Because I know I'd get treated right away rather than have to find out if they are allowed to do more of that procedure now or I have to wait to get it. Or that they will do it the cheaper way, rather than the better way (sometimes those are the same... others they are not).

There is very little chance I might ever end up in a Canadian hospital... but I spend enough time in Europe that risk is very real.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoothy

last paragraph of post #102 by you. I got this information directly from my canadian in-laws....so if thats reading propaganda, then that would make them propagandists by your own words. I trust what they say more than what any newspaper might write. Newspapers are highly biased to the reporters and editors beliefs, and do frequently fabricate stories to push an agenda.

The washington post, and new york times have both been caught doing that.....and for tv news....dan rather at cbs was caught doing it as well. No i can't provide canadian equivalents...that news would rarely make it this far south.

Individuals are more direct and honest about their experience. Years of personal direct experience has shown me that.

And for those praising the canadian health system.....exactly how many of you have had experience with any system (and where was it) that doesn't establish quotas or rationing of any sort in recent years. there is no rationing or quotas.

if i need something here....i never wait more than a few days for an appointment to get that test...and thats working around my schedule, i could usually get those within 24 hours of my doctors request, if i was more flexible. And only because they don't do them in-house.

I do get to see a doctor the day i request it when i have any concerned. me too, imagine that.

i've had surgeries the day of the injury...and in less pressing cases within several days.

The only waiting lists we have in the usa is for organ transplants. Because obviously demand far excedes supply by donors. Not one artificially created by some accountants budget. not artificially created here either.


and no..the insurance carrier does not say....we can only provide x number of that procedure this month...you have to go on a waiting list for next month. The lawyers and courts would have a field day if they did. And rightfully so. that does not happen here.


do i think our system is perfect? No, there is always room for improvement.....but i think it is far better than the canadian system, or the european system. I'd rather be in a hospital here than anywhere in canada or europe. Because i know i'd get treated right away rather than have to find out if they are allowed to do more of that procedure now or i have to wait to get it. Or that they will do it the cheaper way, rather than the better way (sometimes those are the same...others they are not). not true.

there is very little chance i might ever end up in a canadian hospital.....but i spend enough time in europe that risk is very real.

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thank God i live in canada.

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

thank God i live in canada.

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And all I can Say is thank God I live in the USA.

As long as we are happy with what we got and where we live...

I have a GROUP of people that will contest your claims, My In-laws are a big family, all of whom grew up and have their own families and kids now as well. Who have remained in Canada, for now...

Funny how their experience just happens to match fairly closely what is reported about the system. OUTSIDE the Canadian media.

People in North Korea and Burma are Happy with what they have. Because that's all they know. No Canada is NOT equal to North Korea or Burma in any way, but if they can be happy, its not hard to understand how Canadians can be happy with their Health Care system, if that's all they have known.

And for those who DO like it and live there... great, you are happy with it... I'm happy for you. I however do not want to trade what I have for that.

It is not all I know. All my fathers side of the family live in the united states. They are all American. Go figure. Your family lives in Montreal. Canada is a lot bigger then Montreal. I have lived all across our Great country... our country is really big. So to compare the whole country because of one city... Well does not make sense. I can base all my stories on things I have heard from my own family living in the states. That is the same you do with your family based in canada.

Hmmm...

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

It is not all I know. All my fathers side of the family live in the united states. They are all American. Go figure. Your family lives in Montreal. Canada is a lot bigger then Montreal. I have lived all across our Great country... our country is really big. So to compare the whole country because of one city... Well does not make sense. I can base all my stories on things I have heard from my own family living in the states. That is the same you do with your family based in canada.

Hmmm....

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I will take the word of people I know personally, because I will know their character. And they aren't ALL in Montreal (but most are, and that isn't the only place they have lived.

And if there are no quotas, not waiting lists and the system is so absolutely perfect, WHY are so many Canadians spending their money for medial procedures and testing in the USA? Its not only the Wealthy.. and besides, why take the time, cost and effort to travel to another country if you can get the same care for free in your own? Wealthy people don't get that way by throwing all their money away on stupid things. I know several multimillionares. And while they buy nice stuff, "Tight" would be a good description of how they are with money.

They won't fly to Paris to pay three times as much for Levis jeans they can buy in town for a fraction. And they won't go to a different country to pay for something that's no better than they would get for free at home. Its not just poor people that are value concience. And I have no reason to believe Canadians are any different.

Like I said... You might be happy with your system, and that's what matters to you, I accept that. You don't have a lot of choice unless you are willing to go south and pay for it.

But quotas and waiting lists for many Canadians are well documented as they are in the UK system as well. Sure some people are happy and never get caught up in them... but quite a few do.

And here... being told sorry, our budget says you have to wait for "X"... means a lawsuit for that provider or insurance company is a done deal.

And do not confuse being denied a treatment that's not deamed needed or effective... I am talking procedures that are very real and needed and being told... you can have this... but you have to wait for "X" number of months before you can have it done.

And nobody has yet explained Why the Canadian Premier would pay to fly HERE for heart surgery if the Canadian system was so perfect? And that he would have been covered in, or should have been in any case.

Quotes from them...
Allowing his words to speak as loudly as his actions, Danny Williams, who is said to be recovering in Miami from his surgery (which according to this story took longer than expected), had explained his decision simply: "This was my heart, my choice and my health."

"I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics," Williams said.

Paraphrased from.. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/che...heart_sur.html

whom nobody can claim is a right wing newspaper.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoothy

And if there are no quotas, not waiting lists and the system is so absolutely perfect, WHY are so many Canadians spending their money for medial procedures and testing in the USA?

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a) no one ever said it was absolutely perfect, you said that. No system is perfect.
b) procedures done in the US are paid from our healthcare system, except for the ultra-rich who organize it themselves.

I am from Montreal, born there, spent 20 years there, parents and much family are still there. My mother had knee surgery and hip replacement in Mtl, I had no complaints in the way any of it was handled. Je peut même te parler en français si tu veux, je suis parfaitement bilingue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

a) no one ever said it was absolutely perfect, you said that. No system is perfect.
b) procedures done in the US are paid from our healthcare system, except for the ultra-rich who organize it themselves.

I am from Montreal, born there, spent 20 years there, parents and much family are still there. My mother had knee surgery and hip replacement in Mtl, I had no complaints in the way any of it was handled. Je peut même te parler en français si tu veux, je suis parfaitement bilingue.

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And as you quoated in (a) I'm not claiming ours is perfect either... but quotas,, when issued, on ANYTHING, ALWAYS have a way of screwing the people who are NOT connected, while those with the right friends avoid them. That's a universal truth.

(b) Doctors HERE aren't being paid from the Canadian system. I called a friend in upstate New York and they asked their doctor. Its cash and carry.



And yes... I can still read enough French to know what you said... even if I've forgotten most of it over the years since I last used it. If I studied it a bit and got my proficiency back to at least conversational level... I could add that to the langauges I understand well. Which is more than one right now, depending on your definition of proficient... can be three, I'm fluent in Italian... while I can't respond in good spanish.. I do undertand spanish depending on the dialect and origin of the speaker, Understand written spanish fairly well, and get just enough Portuguese to get the drift of a coversation most times... Used to be fluent in french but didn't use it for over 25 years and forgot most of it. Honestly not sure how much I forgot and how much I remember of the French.


Not related to the Canadian system... but the lawmakers here so gung ho to ram this down our throats don't think much of it themselves... because they ALL exempted themselves from having to have it. THAT speaks volumes

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

a). Je peut même te parler en français si tu veux, je suis parfaitement bilingue.

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Well, I guess that threw a small wrench into the mix. Lets see how he replies to this one. The only time I can see what he posted is when someone quotes him. That's fine with me !

Tick

I speak English and American

English and American, hmmm. I thought it was English and Spanish in the States. Nice try.

Well anyway, way off topic. Goodnight folks.

Done with the health care debate good luck to my family in the States and all the americans.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tickle

well, I guess that threw a small wrench into the mix. Lets see how he replies to this one. The only time I can see what he posted is when someone quotes him. Thats fine with me !

tick

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I consider the iggy bin to be for people not mature enough to grasp the concept their opinion isn't the only valid one.

I have nobody on ignore, never have and never will.

What is it you see young children do... "la la la..I can't hear you" with fingers in their ears? The iggy bin is the internet equivalent of doing that.