Ask Me Help Desk - Presidential dictatorship

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Originally Posted by Skell

I would argue your best guarantee to this is democracy and the election process. For a man of God you really have little faith in human kind and the country you live in if you feel that a killing machine is your best guarantee of protection.

I've said it before but this massive cultural difference you guys share to pretty much the rest of the industrialised / civilised world is something I actually feel sorry for you about.

That's a good point Skell, my faith is obviously not in man and as a believer that is as it should be. I still have to live here on earth however, and I agree with the founders that it is our natural right to have the means to defend our rights, our properties and our families. Weapons have been a part of that for millennia, they've just changed with the times and most of the time they never have to be used. We're not like sitting around waiting on a chance to blow someone away.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

These guys have a serious case of keyboard courage. All tough talk on anonymous internet boards but inactive pansies in real life.

LOL, can you say pot calling the kettle black?

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Originally Posted by cozyk

Thank you for speaking up and setting them straight. It's the gun loving, gun toting, rifle in the back window of the truck types i was talking about being embarrassed about. Needing guns to defend our legal rights? Ridiculous,

I'm still waiting for you to name names since you were addressing us. But it's nice to know you hold the same condescending attitude as Obama about us bitter gun lovin', bible thumpin' rednecks.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I'm still waiting for you to name names since you were addressing us. But it's nice to know you hold the same condescending attitude as Obama about us bitter gun lovin', bible thumpin' rednecks.

That is indeed how you come across. YOUR words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

That's a good point Skell, my faith is obviously not in man and as a believer that is as it should be. I still have to live here on earth however, and I agree with the founders that it is our natural right to have the means to defend our rights, our properties and our families. Weapons have been a part of that for millenia, they've just changed with the times and most of the time they never have to be used. We're not like sitting around waiting on a chance to blow someone away.

So you're saying that your god is OK with armed insurrections? Wow, that no different than militants islamists.

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Originally Posted by cozyk

Yes, that is correct, you are one of the coo-coos. You have a fixation on doomsday scenarios.
I'm just glad I don't live in your head.

My "fixation" on doomsday scenarios only exists because these things have happened before... not all that long ago either. We have seen democratic nations turn into dictatorships before, and many have resulted in the deaths of millions. The Nazi Third Reich was born from one of the most openly democratic and enlightened nations in history. Cuba was once the Riviera of Latin America. Lebanon was once the Riviera of the Middle East. All of these were enlightened countries with lots of personal civil rights, and every one of them ended up a dictatorship because people said that it could never happen and ignored those who warned them otherwise.

Kind of like you are trying to ignore me...

The parallels between what happened in those countries and what we are seeing now are quite stark if you take the time to compare them.

But you won't take the time to make that comparison because you are so enamoured of this President and his promises... many of which he has already broken, though you can't see that either.

I am a student of history and a trained professional analyst. You are a drone caught up in the Obama-mania. I work based on logic and fact. You work based on emotion and promisses. I see the patterns emerging from this President and the ways in which it is similar to our past. You see the glow of Obama's visage and are caught up in the cheer-leading.

That is why I seem coo-coo to you. You can't understand how anyone can possibly NOT be enamoured by Obama. But the REALITY of what he is doing doesn't match the glow, and eventually the glow won't be quite so bright, and you'll wonder how you could have missed what is so obvious to others.

Just keep in mind, doomsday scenarios have taken place in our history before. If I am laying out a doomsday scenario, perhaps you should look deeper into whether the scenario is possible and how to avoid it. Just ignoring the possibility is the surest way to make sure that the doomsday scenario comes to pass.

The Jews of Hitler-era Europe were caught off guard by the Third Reich. They had been warned decades earlier of the possibilities of something like what Hitler was planning by the likes of Jabotinsky, Hertzle and others, but they were ignored. "It could never happen here," was what most Jews of Europe said. Even after the Jews of Germany and Austria were thrown in the Death Camps, the Jews of Poland and Hungary continued to say "It could never happen here". They ignored the warnings, ignored the possibility of the doomsday scenario set forth by Theodore Hertzle and Ze'ev Jabotinsky.

At least look at the doomsday scenario before you reject it. Test and analyze to see if the possibility exists before you reject it. ANd if the possibility DOES exist, then at least see if there is anything you can do to prevent or mitigate that risk. But ignore it at your own peril.

See the facts for what they are:

Our President has nationalized 10 of the 12 largest banks in the USA.
He has nationalized 2 of the 3 largest auto makers in the USA.
He has nationalized the largest insurance company in the USA.
He has passed laws that tax you for breathing, control how much energy you use to heat your home, and what lightbulbs you use.
He is attempting to take control of the health care industry through creation of a government single-payer system.
He is in the process of creating legislation that controls the amount of sugars, fats and carbs you eat, and how restaurants prepare the food they sell.
He is creating legislation that caps executive salaries for ALL companies and limits bonuses.
He has increased taxes to the middle class (despite promisses not to do so) along with the rich.
He is increasing welfare programs so as to take the money he gets from the rich and middle class in the form of taxes and redistribute it to the poor.
And he has created a national debt so high that our grandchildren will be paying it off, which essentially makes us, our children and our grandchildren serfs of the state by controlling them through a debt they can never pay off. (This is serfdom at its most basic... debt was how the lords controlled the serfs in the Middle Ages.)

All of these are facts. They are not "scenarios". They are not made up. These things are happening now. Look at them and tell me that you don't see a disturbing pattern in all these actions. Follow that pattern to it's logical conclusion. Do it with an open mind and an eye on history.

Then tell me TRUTHFULLY what you think of the pattern you are seeing.

If you have the guts to look at it truthfully and with an open mind.

But I doubt you do.

Elliot

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

All of these are facts. They are not "scenarios". They are not made up.

Yes they are made up. For instance explain to me how he taxes your breathing.

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Originally Posted by cozyk

[/B]That is indeed how you come across. YOUR words.

Cozy, out of respect for I'll refrain from mentioning how you come across. Still waiting for you to name names however.

Good summary to what is/has happened in the last 100 or so days under the dictatorship of the Nobama administration. Just hope that in 1-1/2 years this insanity can be stopped with a new congress and in 3-1/2 years we can put an end to the total madness in the WH.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Yes they are made up. For instance explain to me how he taxes your breathing.

It is called Cap and Trade!

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Yes they are made up. For instance explain to me how he taxes your breathing.

Cap & Trade taxes carbon emissions. Carbon emissions include carbon emitted as carbon dioxide from human resparation. Energy companies are taxed for carbon levels in the air. They pass that tax on to the consumer. Consumers are therefore taxed for what carbon they emit when they breath, as well as what carbon they emit when they heat their homes and drive their cars. We are being taxed for breathing!!

The problem is that you haven't read the Cap & Trade bill. That's why you don't know about this stuff. But don't feel too bad. The members of Congress who voted for it didn't read it eather... they weren't given the time to do so. The bill is 1200 pages long, and they had less than a week to digest the information in it and the 300 pages of revisions that were handed in the night before the vote took place. So it isn't surprising that most people don't know about this stuff. But it IS a fact that we are now going to be taxed for our breathing, nonetheless.

Elliot

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

What do private gun-owning citizens do to prevent crime? Is there a vigilante group I don't know about? My NRA husband nearly shot a neighbor who came to the door at 11 p.m. to borrow a couple of eggs, and, in a half-awake state, whipped out his pistol from under the mattress when I came to bed one night. (That pistol is no longer loaded and is now in a safe place.) Based on my literature review, gun owners/guns in the home cause far more injuries and death to non-criminals than to criminals.

Results after the first ten years of Texas' concealed carry law:

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Texas Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson

When the Texas Concealed Handgun Law took effect in 1996, pundits and naysayers predicted anarchy. Any minute, there would surely be mass violence as armed Texas citizens began roving the streets settling arguments with gunfire. Certainly, several proclaimed, within a year there would be blood in the streets as Texas returned to the days of the Wild West.

Ten years later the facts paint a different picture. Texas under the Concealed Handgun Law isn’t the Wild West, but the Mild West. No recurrent shootouts at four-way stops, no blood in the streets. Quite the contrary, Texans are safer than before.

But why are we safer? Why did the fears of the naysayers fail to materialize?

One of the reasons I authored Senate Bill 60, the Concealed Handgun Law, was because I trust my fellow Texans. Contrary to opinions expressed on almost every editorial page across the state, I knew that when law-abiding Texans’ constitutional right to keep and bear arms was restored with the passage of S.B. 60, they would exercise good judgment and behave responsibly.

Ten years later, and the statistics continue to prove the point.

Since the passage of the Concealed Handgun Law, the FBI Uniform Crime Report shows an 18% drop in handgun murders, down from 838 in 1995 to 688 in 2004. And a 32% drop in handgun murders per 100,000 population, down from 4.5 murders per 100,000 Texans in 1995 to 3.08 per 100,000 in 2004.

If I find more recent stats I'll post them as well.

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

Cap in Trade taxes carbon emissions.

That's not taxing your breathing.

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Originally Posted by Skell

The fact that you are an armed society doesnt seem to prevent crime in your country. If guns make people so safe then why is the US ranked higher than the UK in murders per capita not to mention most if not all other crimes?

I dont agree with your argument.

It's made us safer in Texas.

PS. Here's the link I forgot on that previous post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That's not taxing your breathing.

If they are taxing carbon dioxide emissions, and carbon dioxide emissions come from your breathing, then they are taxing your breathing. Like it or not, that is a fact.

I know it would be easier to ignore that little fact. I know it would be more pleasant to forget that the single largest source of carbon dioxide is human resparation, not industry. But you can't ignore facts.

They are taxing carbon dioxide. You exhale carbon dioxide. Ergo, they are taxing your breathing.

Please, NK, explain to me how Cap & Trade is NOT taxing our breathing.

Elliot

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So you're saying that your god is ok with armed insurrections? Wow, that no different than militants islamists.

Think about it NK, what I did was differentiate between my spiritual beliefs and the reality of living in a secular society.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That's not taxing your breathing.

If you don't want to sit down and try and digest all 1200 plus pages of this piece of garbage, then do some research on line and see what experts are saying about it's effects on people/companies in the USA. Even the proponents are saying this piece of trash will take billions out of the economy of this country. This in a time of recession/depression that few alive have ever witnessed before. Raising taxes does not work. More government does not work.

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

Please, NK, explain to me how Cap & Trade is NOT taxing our breathing.

How are they going to measure the carbon dioxide coming out of your body in order to tax you?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Here we go with the the "you guys" thing again. Which guys? The subject of this post was the silence among those that complained of Bush's tyranny now that Obama is vastly expanding the government's role. That he is doing so can't be denied and the silence among those Bush critics is deafening. That is the point of this thread I believe and what I addressed. I didn't make this about guns, but I'm not shy about defending our rights and the reasons behind them.

I agree that elections and the democratic process are the best and preferred remedy, but not the best 'guarantee.'

'You guys' who feel that guns are your best guarantee against the government. You referred to it. Not me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

How are they going to measure the carbon dioxide coming out of your body in order to tax you?

NK, that's just a perfect example of how the "far righties" lose their credibility by exaggerating. They also seem to know how I feel about Obama , Worship? The Messiah?
They use all these "over the top" descriptions that don't apply to me at all.:cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETWolverine

Yet now we have a President who wishes to control what you drive, how much gas you use in your car, what lightbulbs you can buy, how much you can earn, how much bonus money you can take home at the end of the year, and (through new legislation he is proposing) what you can eat and drink and smoke, . He controls two of the three largest auto manufacturers, ten of the twelve largest banks, and the largest insurance company. He is trying to take over your medical insurance as well, and may very well be successful at it, which would give him direct control of the sources of about 20% or more of national GDP. He truly is taking control of literally every aspect of your lives.

Yet we hear not a peep from those who claim to have been afraid of Bush because he was a dictator trying to control our lives.

Elliot

I agree these are the same people that insist our rights are not being taken away.
Yet I see it everyday. They have slowly boiled like the frog that is put in the cold water and slowly turn up the heat. He boils to death because he doesn't feel the gradual heating of the water.

They think these changes are for the good but most are just taking away rights so we have more government rule.

Most of the things they want actually are worse than what we have. The CLF light bulb, the cloth bags and many other things have proven to be worse than what we have.

Give it another 7 yrs, things are worse and they will still be saying our rights are not taken away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cozyk

NK, that's just a perfect example of how the "far righties" lose their credibility by exaggerating. They also seem to know how I feel about Obama , Worship? The Messiah?
They use all these "over the top" descriptions that don't apply to me at all.:cool:

And you won't specify who you think is coo coo, it doesn't apply to me at all so I'm still waiting for you to name names.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skell

'You guys' who feel that guns are your best guarentee against the government. You referred to it. Not me!!

Did you miss the part where "I said I didn't make this about guns?" I was just responding to others.

Maybe it is sites like this and the media making him into something that he is not that cause Obama to be equated with the messiah and worship

Messiah, The Church of Obama -- Worship, Hope, Change

Steve,

Did you not say that Obama was heading towards dictatorship?

And did you not say that the right to bear arms represents your best guarantee against such dictatorships?

It's there in your posts. I don't need to link to them cause you're an honest guy.

I was merely posing the question that IF Obama is heading towards dictatorship, then WHY don't you use your best guarantee against him becoming one?

I'm only trying to follow your logic Steve. Elliot's too. You know? "You guys" :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skell

Steve,

Did you not say that Obama was heading towards dictatorship?

If you're referring to this it was to make a point about how irrelevant NK's post was. I certainly have concerns about Obama's power grabs but I'm not out of touch with reality as the BDS sufferers were.

Quote:

And did you not say that the right to bear arms represents your best guarantee against such dictatorships?

I said it was the best guarantee to protect the rest of our rights... but I added that "elections and the democratic process are the best and preferred remedy." There is a difference.

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It's there in your posts. I don't need to link to them cause you're an honest guy.

I was merely posing the question that IF Obama is heading towards dictatorship, then WHY don't you use your best guarantee against him becoming one?

Tom answered that sufficiently.

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I'm only trying to follow your logic Steve. Elliot's too. You know? "You guys" :)

And I'm trying to follow the logic that thinks some long established, well reasoned constitutional rights should be done away with. But more than that, I'm waiting for this to return to the original subject.

Hello Steve:

I don't know if THIS is the point of this post, but I think so...

You guy's, who ordinarily disdain politically correct speech, are sure changing the English language to suit you...

You call democratically elected leaders dictators. You call a coup the Constitutional removal of a dictator who happened to be democratically elected. And, you call hypocrites hyporites.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

cozy, out of respect for I'll refrain from mentioning how you come across. Still waiting for you to name names however.

The names would be the authors of the post I listed. I'm not going back to look them up but since you are obsessed with the names, you can do it.

I honestly don't believe that I am coming across as I should. I admit that I get a chip on my shoulder when extremest spout their stuff. I need to step back and regroup.:o

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

And I'm trying to follow the logic that thinks some long established, well reasoned constitutional rights should be done away with. But more than that, I'm waiting for this to return to the original subject.

I don't think it should be. I've conceded that before. It is too ingrained in your culture.

And Steve it is on original subject.

Elliot asked "and where are all the complains about Presidential Dictatorship now"?

My questions were based on that. If you guys really feel he is a dictator, I was asking what your response would be. And you have given it to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skell

I dont think it should be. I've conceded that before. It is too ingrained in your culture.

And Steve it is on original subject.

Elliot asked "and where are all the complains about Presidential Dictatorship now"?

Right, still waiting for those complaints... that's the point. After complaining - generally with no merit whatsoever - about Bush being a dictator, planning to establish a theocracy, canceling the election, destroying our rights, etc. it's awfully quiet now that Obama is doing many of the same things these people were complaining about under Bush. I'm not saying that he's now a dictator, but he is definitely pushing legislation that will have more control over our lives, not to mention the government ownership in private business. You can't deny that. So where are the hypocrites that whined about Bush now? That is the subject of this post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

it's awfully quiet now that Obama is doing many of the same things these people were complaining about under Bush. I'm not saying that he's now a dictator, but he is definitely pushing legislation that will have more control over our lives, not to mention the government ownership in private business. You can't deny that. So where are the hypocrites that whined about Bush now? That is the subject of this post.

I totally agree. I was saying it is awfully quiet now that Obama hasn't done any of the promised changes yet.
Where are the 6 hundred thousand jobs he promised to create?
How many people are out of work because of the changes he made in the auto industry and other businesses?
Where is all this stimulus tax that was suppose to fix things? I have seen some of those changes but as an over all whole NOT
Why hasn't he stopped the war(s) so that ONE more American life didn't end?
What happened to his claim that if he didn't go through with his promises within 100 days he would step down?
Why hasn't anything changed for the better?

Quote:

Originally Posted by N0help4u

I totally agree. I was saying it is awfully quiet now that Obama hasn't done any of the promised changes yet.
Where are the 6 hundred thousand jobs he promised to create?
How many people are out of work because of the changes he made in the auto industry and other businesses?
Where is all this stimulus tax that was suppose to fix things? I have seen some of those changes but as an over all whole NOT
Why hasn't he stopped the war(s) so that ONE more American life didn't end?
What happened to his claim that if he didn't go through with his promises within 100 days he would step down?
Why hasn't anything changed for the better?

I can answer that for them, the answer I keep seeing is it took a while for Republicans to get us in the mess so give him time. Hogwash, I'm not going to sit idly by while the Dems put us in a deeper hole.

Yeah we'll give them time and still
My psychic prediction is the same now as it will prove to be in 5 to 7 yrs... NO change for the better.

Quote:

You call democratically elected leaders dictators. You call a coup the Constitutional removal of a dictator who happened to be democratically elected.

And you are in a looking glass world .
The actions taken by the Honduran Congress, Supreme Court and military, were taken under the rule of Honduran law .
What Manuel Zelaya was doing in forcing an unconstitutional referendum to give him a lifetime appointment was the illegal coup attempt .

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

yeah we'll give them time and still
My psychic prediction is the same now as it will prove to be in 5 to 7 yrs... NO change for the better.

Saw an interesting graph yesterday...

http://michaelscomments.files.wordpr...if?w=460&h=280

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The light blue line represents what the Administration said we'd see if we did absolutely nothing. The dark blue line is what Obama said the stimulus would do.

The red dots, however, are reality...

And yet no one has chimed in about the latest opinion polls on his job. In Ohio alone his approval rating has plummeted 14% in only two months. Think of it, at that rate in only 7 months his job approval rating will be ZERO!!

Hello 450:

Every time I was hired to fix a screwed up company, I started very popular. But, by the time I fixed things, not too many people liked me. But, I wasn't hired to be liked. I was hired to FIX things, and I did.

Is Obama fixing things? It's too soon to tell.

I'm talking simply about the economy, though. He HAS gone a long way to restoring our badly damaged reputation in the world.

excon

Ahhh but the trillion dollar stimulus bill that Nobama said had to be passed in two days otherwise the economy would melt down. What has happened to that? NOTHING!!
Less than 7% of it has been spent now four months later. If HE had all these shovel ready jobs where are these jobs that they promised? I sit here unemployed for going on six months because of the way our government has screwed up the economy. Yes, I blame both parties. But if you look closely at what has happened since congress was taken over by one party it is pretty clear to any clear thinking individual who was mainly to blame.

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Originally Posted by 450donn

Ahhh but the trillion dollar stimulus bill that Nobama said had to be passed in two days otherwise the economy would melt down. What has happened to that? NOTHING!!!
Less than 7% of it has been spent now four months later. If HE had all these shovel ready jobs where are these jobs that they promised? I sit here unemployed for going on six months because of the way our government has screwed up the economy. Yes, I blame both parties. But if you look closely at what has happened since congress was taken over by one party it is pretty clear to any clear thinking individual who was mainly to blame.

The stimulus money is available. I'm guessing the state governments are to blame for hanging on to or not even claiming funds. Washrooms are to be rehabbed at our village hall, but nothing has happened yet. County roads need fresh paint on dividing lines. Nothing is being done. Illinois has survived an idiot governor and has a new one now. Maybe I'll give him a call.

Then why is there momentum for a new bucket list when as predicted ,the 1st one is a bust ?