But it's not murder is it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
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But it's not murder is it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
So to be a right-winger you *must* be a christian? That's why your party is on the wane.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Hello again,
So, with all this talk of murder, don't tell me that you're not going to put abortionists and the women they work on, in JAIL! That is, if you had your druthers.
excon
That's all so much nonsense, my concern for innocent life has nothing to do with my "feelings," and I have yet to bring religion into either. It is a child that deserves a chance. No amount of science can change the fact that it is human life inside the womb, and if you believe it it's just a mass of tissue that just exists you haven't paid attention to science anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
What exactly is a "safe" abortion? I didn't realize there were any risk-free abortions.Quote:
Speech, did you daughter have a "safe" above board abortion? Or did she have to go to some butcher that would do it without any regulations?
No Skell, I was pro-life long before that. Her experience and that of friends just makes me more so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
So far I think you're the only one that's mentioned jail. Some abortionists however do deserve prison.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
The black robed imperial oligarchs took the choice of defining abortion as murder away from the people. But we all know that the intentional taking of innocent human life is murder regardless of the legality .Quote:
But it's not murder is it.
There you go with those jerking knees again. Try something besides knee-jerk assumptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
That is so ironic. The black robed imperial oligarchs took the choice away? Actually they put the choice back in. You can call it murder if that is the way you see it and you can elect to continue with a pregnancy if that is your choice. They GAVE a choice, they didn't take one away.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Not true ,they imposed their will on the people of the country .
In it's simplest form destiny is a predetermined course of events. When this sperm and egg get together is there some possibility it might grow to be a cat, or is it typically going to become a human child unless someone intervenes to change that course? If I just worry about myself isn't that entirely contrary to the challenge by "the coolest president ever" to serve others? Not to mention especially selfish?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare81
Not true, you can handle it anyway you choose.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
So, if you get your way and abortion is made illegal, what do you propose to do to the women who have illegal abortions? Gaol them? Fine them? Cane them? What? If something is illegal there has to be a punishment? Or am I missing something? Ex mentions prison because that is what you do with law breakers. Gaol them.. And you guys do it better than anyone else in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
P.S. Im a fence sitter on this issue. I believe in a woman's choice but I also can sort of see the other side of the story. But calling it murder and genocide is ridiculous in my opinion.
Quote:
But calling it murder and genocide is ridiculous in my opinion
There have been over 40 million abortion murders in the US since Roe v Wade . That puts us well past Hitler numbers into the Stalin league.
But if it isn't illegal it isn't murder. As I said, ridiculous!
Your argument implies that that all of the 40 million murders should be blamed on roe vs vade, would there be no illegal abortion if women did not have the right to choose.Would there not be underground clinics performing abortions?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Dare of course... but no where's near the number now. Skell ,the Final Solution was legal in Germany. I'm sure Stalin was doing what was legal in the Soviet Union.
Skell, I am under no illusion that abortion will ever be banned (unless we go the Sharia route) and I don't recall having ever fought for an outright ban so I believe this argument is just a diversion. I want to change the culture that has cheapened the unborn child down to a mass of cells with no value and abortion rights approaching religious status. Changing hearts and minds to see the infinite value of an unborn child is where it starts and when that happens I believe society will be the better for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
Now this is an argument I can respect. It calls for the best of each persons conscience. I believe that MOST women don't take this decision lightly. I believe that it involves soul searching, prayer, and a lot of deliberation. To promote this scrutiny is the way to go if you want to make a change. To demand a complete ban is counter productive. After all this diligence,if the decision to abort is yes, then there must be a very compelling reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Appealing to each persons best self is the way to go.
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
I don't disagree. Yours is a worthy goal. But, change is a two way street..
Me?? I'd like to see efforts toward reducing unwanted pregnancies in the first place. But, it's probably going to involve a change in culture that you're not willing to engage in.
That would be a change to one where sex education is taught in schools, birth control for everybody - including TEENS, Plan B in ALL drug stores, and health care for all..
I somehow think those aren't cultural changes you'd be willing to make.
excon
PS> Do I think abstinence works?? Yes. Teach it at home and in your church.
Absolutely excon, they don't call it unwanted pregnancy for nothing... it's unwanted. Sex education is crucial and so is easy access to birth control. This is not to promote sex, this is just plain old common sense and to not do this is just plain naïve.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
We've been round and round on this before, too. I don't object to sex education, I object to Planned Parenthood and the other abortion zealots' agenda being forced on children without regard to the parent's values and wishes. You do believe parents should still be allowed to be the parents don't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
See, that's where you lose credibility. When the sarcasm sets in. No one ever said parents shouldn't be parents. Forget the agendas of abortion zealots. Who cares about them? Don't you care more about the bottom line? That unwanted pregnancies are avoided and that abortions aren't needed.
This reminds me of those poor children being brainwashed and subjected to religious indoctrination at an age when they can't even pick out their own clothes.
There was no sarcasm there, none whatsoever. I'm dead serious, PP does NOT want parents to be the parents - they have no problem whatsoever undermining parental rights. In fact, it's one of their goals and my objection falls exactly in line with my previous point. Parents should have the right to be the parent and children are too valuable for parents to be undermined by outside forces like PP. That is part of the culture that needs to be changed. I believe if PP and others like them would mind their own business instead of interfering with families and doing everything they can to “empower” children in their sex lives, unwanted pregnancies and abortions would both decline.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
Hello again, Steve:
I'm ready to get off abortion for the time being... But, I'm ready for the NEW one you brought up, Steve.
You righty's have a list of, dare I say, UN American organizations, of which Planned Parenthood is one, that frighten you to death. Your list includes the ACLU and Acorn. I'm sure there's others, but that'll do for now.
In fact, I find those organizations to be very main stream American, and do the work of the Democracy. What is it about them that makes them soooo nasty?
Plus, I can't think of ONE right wing organization that scares me, or that's UN American... But, that's just me.
excon
Planned Parenthood is as American as Apple Pie. Just ask it's eugenics supporting racist founder ;Margaret Sanger .Her original idea was to have black women have abortions to reduce the number of blacks being born .
Well that would be great IF we could count on parents doing the parental thing correctly. Unfortunately not all parents are responsible, concerned, smart enough themselves, have embarrassment hang ups, think it's giving their child the green light, are naïve, or have delusions that THEIR child wouldn't do such things. What is your solution for the kids that fall into this BROAD category? Get it at home, or not at all? I'm really looking forward to your solution to this problem because I know you must have one or you would not be so totally against kids of ignorant parents getting some outside guidance.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Ah, so let's let Planned Parenthood, the schools and the government brainwash our kids, but NOT the parents.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Again and again and again, I have always supported APPROPRIATE intervention under APPROPRIATE circumstances. I don't however believe most parents in this country are incompetent so the government, PP and everyone else needs to get the hell out of the way and mind their own business when it comes to parents raising their children.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
Funny, but every time some abortion supporter argues that women should have the right to choose what to do with THEIR bodies it seems they end up telling us parents don't necessarily have the right to raise THEIR children. How do you reconcile that?
I never said PP was un-American, I say they're a dangerous, despicable, dishonest, lawbreaking, undermining, pathetic, useless waste of resources and space. They COULD be a decent organization otherwise. The other two have pros and cons, too - they do some good things, but on their worst day I don't believe they even come close to being as vile as Planned Parenthood.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
There may not be any that scare you, but just mention Fox News, PNAC, Focus on the Family and a few others and watch the knees jerk all around you.
I don't know much but this seems to me like a failed attempt at propaganda.
I think it's cool a lot of people like him. They show his by waring Obama shirts and crap. But if you ask me, it reminds me of some sort of cult. Nobody was waring Bush shirts!
Which part? As for my part I've documented Planned Parenthood's sleaze here many times. Feel free to look it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by WATT
I saw pictures of young republicans wearing T-shirts that had a W on them at the RNC when Bush ran for re-election. All the other Bush T-shirts were not so flattering to G DUB.Quote:
Originally Posted by topladyj
Yeah I saw the perverted ones but it's almost like a cult how many people are waring them lol.
You left out your solution for the percentage of kids that fall under the umbrella of parents that DON'T teach their children. No one is putting limits on how you raise your children, what you teach them, etc. If you are doing a good job with that, then you have nothing to worry about do you? So what are you so upset about?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Are you saying parents SHOULD brainwash their kids?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
What has PP done to you that illicits so much hatred and venom? They haven't touched my life at all. I've taught my children about love, sex, commitment, birth control, and good planning in general, which covers decisions about sex. If they hear other things out in the world, I couldn't care less. Why, because I know they get it. If they are taught correctly, then it doesn't matter what they hear on the street, in the locker room, in a sex ed class, or from any PP lit. They have the knowledge. For kids that don't, I hope they get the right knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
I knew someone would ask that. Responsible parents should be left alone to raise their children WITHOUT interference from ANYONE.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
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