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Lol... yes, the Republican's only find you a true American if you believe in them, or the war, or taking from the middle class and giving to the rich (spreading the wealth upward). Those are true American's. Oh, and it helps if you are white too.Quote:
Originally Posted by liz28
The truth be told, I don't support either of the main parties so I have to choose the one I believe is better able to take care of us in the event of another terrorist attack on this country that I love. John McCain has many years in government service and in military service. Obama has what? 143 days in government service?Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasParent
I hate the gossip that you've just put out there about John McCain. Do you not think a man who's been held captive for five years might come home with different feelings about his wife? In this country with easy divorce in every direction, you would dare to take a piece of gossip that no one except the two parties in the divorce would know the absolute truth about, and continue to spread it like this is just keeping the nastiness going. No one knows the truth about my divorce and if they talked to me they would hear my truth, if they talked to him they would hear his truth - and they probably would be very different. I can't help but notice you didn't mention the children John and Cindy McCain have brought from other countries who needed tremendous care, surgeries, etc. and have loved and provided a home for. I guess we pick out the things to make a person look their worst and ignore those things that lift them up.
You say the Republicans are morally loose right on the heels of Clinton?? Barney Frank? John Edwards? Marion Barry? Mayor Kilpatrick a Detroit Democrat was just removed from office and is now serving a jail term. Giulani - both Democrat and Republican... Even John F. Kennedy and Edward Kennedy had many moral failings along the way.. . there are just too many to even name in both parties so it isn't a matter of parties but of individual character.
I already help people who are having hard times. It's called welfare... food stamps, medicaid, among many other programs. I also contribute to many charities on my own. I don't need a government to tell me to do it. That goes for many, many people as you could determine by the amount of money this country donates to disasters around the world.
I want smaller government - not larger.
The schools are poorly run. Here in Detroit they found 100's of brand new books and computers in dumpsters, which were supposed to be in classrooms. The teachers dare not discipline a student no matter what the student does... guns in classrooms is the norm now. Yes, we can use Charter schools and do a better job.
My opinion.
I don't think anyone has said anything about race, so why have you? I think it would be wonderful to have an African American president. It's been time for that for awhile... It doesn't have to be the first one that presents himself either.
It's not gossip. It's information that has been documented from quotes not only by Carol, the first wife, but also by John McCain. The story of her car accident, her losing four inches of height (had been a swimsuit model), and her increase in weight all happened while he was in Nam. She supported him during his captivity by sending letters and gifts (none got to him). When he finally came home, both were in rehab and they tried to make a go of their marriage. Carol says his interest in other women was due to who he was inside, his immaturity, and not because of his scars from captivity. He has publicly acknowledged he was wrong and had treated her very badly. He proposed to Cindy while he was still married to Carol, yet to this day, Carol supports him and says he would be a good president.Quote:
Originally Posted by purplewings
Terrorist attacks are coming, just look at the rest of the world. We can't keep drugs or people from coming across our border, what makes you think that we can keep another terrorist attack from coming. The truth is, we can't. In a free society and economy, the borders have to be open for the free flow of goods in and out of our country; with open borders and the fact that we have so much coastline, any terrorist with serious intentions can get into the country just as easily as drugs and drug smugglers come into this country every day.Quote:
Originally Posted by purplewings
As for who is best suited to reduce this threat, I believe Obama's plan for redirecting our resources out of Iraq into more funding for intelligence and focusing on where the leaders of the terrorists have always been in Afganistan and Pakistan and directing funds to border security is a wiser course of action; but I don't fault you for choosing McCain in this regard if his military experience speaks to you more strongly.
The reason I bring it up is that the Republican party seems to liken itself to the guardian's of family values; christian values I might add. I am surprised that the evangelicals would even support John McCain at all because he is a divorced man, never mind the details.Quote:
Originally Posted by purplewings
As for the child they adopted from another country, that was Cindy McCain's doing, she surprised him. Did he support her decision, yes. Do I applaud him for it, absolutely. However, it must be mentioned that John McCain spends most of his time in Washington, always has and Cindy does not live their with him, she lives at home raising the children and being involved in her family business and charitable activities. John mostly just flys home on the weekends. Not unlike some men, but he's not a active hands on family first guy. All in all though, I have no problems with regard to his family as it is currently constructed, but you can't ignore Cindy's addiction to pills; this is a woman who felt lonely as John was more interested in whatever was going on in Washington and didn't know enough about his wife because of his absence from the home to notice.
As far as family values are concerned, to date Barrak Obama is married to Michelle his first and only wife and they have two wonderful little girls. There is no affair that lead to divorce, and by all accounts Barrak makes a point of being around his kids and being the best father he can be because he didn't have the experience of having a father around when he was a boy.
I understand life happens to people, and to John McCain, but the Republican's seem to excuse themselves when it comes to their own who go off the ideal track while smearing Democrats as sin committing heathen's.
It's the holier than though Republican mantra when comparing themselves to Democrats that drives me crazy.
So for me, on family values Barrak Obama scores higher than John McCain through both of their respective actions.
I was simply reminding you that Republican's by their actions are not the protectors of virtue as they preach to be. When they tell the public that they are the party of values that American's hold dear to themselves and then betray those values, it's a farther fall from grace and a greater betrayal of those that believed in those values.Quote:
Originally Posted by purplewings
Both parties have their people that are going to make mistakes, and have people that life happens too.
My point is, both parties are equal in their indiscrestions; for you to believe that the Republican party values are somehow superior to Democrat ones to me points to someone who believes the propaganda and doesn't see the reality that our elected officials can be equally immoral on both sides.
I agree, smaller government - not larger; but please include the military when you consider the size of government. Bush has spent more of our taxpayers money than any other in history, our yearly deficit is the highest in history, our national debt is breaking new records daily. Yet, he continues to cut taxes for the wealthy (Warren Buffet, the second richest man in America just endorsed Barrak Obama and said that he pays less tax as a percentage of his income than his cleaning lady does and challenged his wealthy colleagues to admit to the same and he would pay them $1 million dollars to say so publically) on the backs of the middle class who have to pay for the war and his out of control spending.Quote:
Originally Posted by purplewings
I believe in a hand up, not a hand out. Personally I believe all those on welfare need to earn it in some way. It could be cleaning the highway's, answering phones at government offices, etc. If they are getting paid, then they need to do something to earn it; and this could then turn into a skill that they could use to get a private sector job.
That doesn't change the fact that I believe that every child has the right to an education, it can be done better and I am open to all idea's so long as that right is not infringed upon.Quote:
Originally Posted by purplewings
I believe that education is in better hands with Obama, he has worked in Education and I think he has a better handle on the real issues facing the school systems and parents in our nation than McCain who I think would just take a blunt instrument to it based on ideology.
As for race, it's a sore point with me towards the Republican's. Tell me why if the grassroots of the Republican party is so diverse and they want to embrace latinos, african-american's, etc. that the party can't at the local level send delegates of color to the RNC. Why does the RNC not reflect the diversity of our country?Quote:
Originally Posted by purplewings
If it matter's my skin color is considered white.
I likeyour statement about it being wonderful to have an African-American as President, and I respect your opinion that it doesn't have to be the first. However I am in disagreement, and while it is way down the list of reasons, the bonus for me is if Barrak Obama is elected President it will do this country a great service in terms of speaking to disenfranchised youths of color all over our nation. I think it's an important step in our nations history and if it is not seized at this moment, it might be another generation before it happens again.
Oh... and don't forget to vote!
* If you grow up in Hawaii, raised by your grandparents, you're 'exotic, different.
* Grow up in Alaska eating moose burgers, a quintessential American story.
* If your name is Barack you're a radical, unpatriotic Muslim.
* Name your kids Willow, Trig and Track, and you're a maverick.
* Graduate from Harvard law School and be President of the Law Review, and you are unstable.
* Attend 5 different small colleges before graduating, you're well grounded.
* If you spend 3 years as a community organizer, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, become chairman of the state Senate's Health and Human Services committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of 13 million people while sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and
Public Works and Veteran's Affairs committees, you don't have any real leadership experience.
* If your total resume is: local weather girl, 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, 20 months as the governor of a state with only 650,000 people, then you're qualified to become the country's second highest ranking executive.
* If you have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 beautiful daughters, all within Protestant churches, you're not a real Christian.
* If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and left your disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you're a Christian.
* If you teach responsible, age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of birth control, you are eroding the fiber of society.
* If , while governor, you staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state's school system while your unwed teen daughter ends up pregnant , you're very responsible.
* If your wife is a Harvard graduate lawyer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family, your family's values don't represent America's.
* If your husband is nicknamed 'First Dude', with at least one DUI conviction and no college education, who didn't register to vote until age 25 and once was a member of a group that advocated the secession of Alaska from the USA, your family is extremely admirable.
OK, much clearer to me now.' The revolution will be televised. Obama/Biden 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by liz28
Well said, you need to post that in as many places as you can before Nov. 4th.
Obama/Biden 08.
LIz28 - Aw geez. That's just plain and simple CRAP. Where is NK when the real CRAP is posted?
Anybody can find all the good points of one person and all the bad points of the other. Just like a high school kid.
And that's exactly what the converstaive have inundating this board with - looking for ways to shout out any bad points about Obama. For a while the board was being spammed incessantly with it. Time to even the score.Quote:
Originally Posted by purplewings
Two wrongs don't make a right.:(Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I totally agree with you Purplewings. Maybe these people on this board will wake up and find themselves in a nice gulag one day courtesy of Barky if they don't "share the wealth" with him. He does not want to spread it around - he wants to keep it for himself and his cronies. Oh, well, it's going to be too late to undo this next dictator. I don't like him, never cared for the person and always will think him the moron, liar he truly is. No one here can change my thinking on this jerk, ever. I thought he was weird looking the first time I ever saw him. I haven't changed my opinion on that one either. I really liked the part where he's asking Bill Clinton recently for a lesson on economics. Hilarious. It's obvious he does not have a clue how to think for himself - he never had a real election where it was not rigged on his behalf courtesy of his Chicago handlers. I also like the fact that he got millions and millions of dollars for his campaign from people/companies outside this country. Doesn't that mean that he broke the FEC election campaign funding laws? It certainly does. I'm sure he'll pardon himself of any wrongdoing as soon as he's elected for life like any good dictator would do. I guess that's why Kim Jong of Korea likes him so much as he can see a wonderful reflection of himself in Barky. They'll get along just great dividing the world up or should I say carving the world up between themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by purplewings
You seem a little disturbed twinkie...
You seem disturbed Skell considering you don't live in America.
Available now at your favorite supermarket.
"I can't believe it's not earned."
Wow. Way to go playing on all those racist stereotypes.
I'm actually shocked.
Interesting since Sarah Palin decided to tax big oil in Alaska a bit extra and then give every Alaskan a check for $2k plus each as a result of her take from the rich and give to the poor. Wow a conservative who thinks the oil companies make too much and the middle class could use a break, sounds like Obama to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by twinkiedooter
Somehow I know you are going to tell me it's not alike at all.
Warren Buffet the second richest man in America says that his tax rate is lower than his cleaning lady's. He challenges his wealthy colleagues to admit the same publicly and if they do he will pay them $1 million dollars. However, not one person has taken him up on his offer. Sharing the wealth is the corporate welfare the Bush administration has bestowed on the big corporations and the rich from the middle classes pockets. It's called stealing from the poor and giving to the rich and to make matters worse they reward fraud and corruption by bailing out Wall Street with taxpayers money as well.
So your argument about spreading the wealth holds no water, Obama will simply restore Reagan ear tax rates to the rich; they can offord it and give breaks to the middle class who earned it through their blood, sweat and tears.
You are simply a greedy SOB.
I wonder if Buffett would prefer a tax on wealth rather on income that he so successfully shelters. He is a hypocrite.
You said it, Tom. Buffer is planning to buy up all those mortgages the banks took back from people and make a ton more money off the misfortune of others. I'd say if he's stumping for Obama, he's got something big to gain from it. Just like Soros, who supports Obama and has tried to get America into socialism forever - and makes it no secret either. There was a time when Soros declared he would one day destroy us.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
If the very rich are willing to pay higher income taxes than they do, why should you object and say they are hypocrites? What is it exactly that you afraid of losing? Either your annual income is over a quarter million, but you are still extremely anxious that you will somehow go without if you have to pay an extra few thousand to help someone else who is working 10 hours a day for $6/hour, no benefits; or else you don't make a quarter million dollars a year and are just an idealogue who hates the very idea of the public good. Oddly enough, what's good for your postman and your kids' teacher is also good for you.
Would the TaxHaters be happier without a fire department or a police department, so people could take care of burglars and burning houses on their own? Why should I pay taxes to protect your expensive house anyway? Why should I pay taxes to run a county road and a sewer line up to the 50 houses in your neighborhood, when the road across town that serves 5000 people is full of potholes and needs a new sewer line?
I'd be willing to bet that government services--taken as a whole-- disproportionately benefit the wealthy and the very wealthy.
It's certainly clear from the $700 billion bailout that the rich take that as a given. They assume they are first in line for government services. Don't forget that the first $40 Billion of that $700 Billion Bailout goes to executive IOUs at these failing (so-called free market companies). This $40 Billion is not current pay (there will be some of that too), but back pay. At some companies, the amount of back pay owed to a few executives is greater than the entire pension plan for every other worker at the same company.
Tell me about hypocrites.
Needed services like Fire Dept Police etc. are paid for primarily through local taxes. Whereas they are Federal responsibilities I gladly pay my share.
We are talking Federal Income taxes here and not local taxes and I think that any spending that is not ABSOLUTELY essential should be deeply cut before anyone is asked to contribute another dime. You want roads built ? Let the users pay for them with tolls and gas consumption taxes. INCOMES should be minimally taxed if at all.
I did NOT approve of the bail-out and resent having to shell that out. Both candidates are complicit in supporting it .
Because he is a hypocrite. He shelters INCOME .That is why his secretary pays more . Like I said .Ask him if he would gladly pay a WEALTH tax and he'd sing a different tune.Quote:
If the very rich are willing to pay higher income taxes than they do, why should you object and say they are hypocrites?
Hello:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Let me explain some stuff here...
Tom is right. Buffet "shelters" income... But what does that mean? Is he breaking a law by doing that? Is he being UN-patriotic by doing that? Do YOU "shelter" income when you deduct your home interest from your taxable income??
If Buffet, like you, is following the law, why is that hypocritical? Of course, it isn't! Should he NOT follow the law?
If there ARE laws that allow zillioneres to "shelter" their income, which Republicans are responsible for that? Surely, no Democrat would have supported it.
excon
He is a hypocrite because he is not calling for the elimination of those shelters ;he is calling for higher income tax rates that would mostly hurt the $250,000 earner... oops ;$200,000 earner... oops $150,000earner... oops anyone in the higher brackets before the Bush tax cuts went into effect.
Unlike Buffett ;these folks do not have teams of lawyers tucking their income away from the IRS grubbly hands. Their deduction may be only their home mortgage or some other small business related deductions .
If Buffet wants to pay more taxes so badly then he should do so. NO ONE IS STOPPING HIM !
Oops, $120,000...
Hello Steve:
Yeah, it's a shame that politicians change their tax policy when the economy craters. In fact, because the economic crisis is just NOW unfolding, anybody who say's they're going to do such and such is just kidding... Uhhh, your guy too.
Besides, didn't we hear all this conservative, small government crap before?? I think we did, and I think we were lied to by YOUR dufus in chief. Why should you have another chance to lie again?
Soooooo, don't vote for Obama because of his tax policy. Vote for him because he's going to appoint Supreme Court Justices that strictly interpret the Constitution. They're not going to be ACTIVIST judges like Scalia, Alito, Roberts, and Thomas.
I got other reasons you should vote for him if that doesn't float your boat.
excon
I love the way the liberals cannot respond to the links I posted on the IRS's data on who actually pays the nations income taxes.
Are you not disturbed that Obama's "rich" continues to make less and less money already?
Paraphrased from a letter in today's WSJ
If Obama believes the rich should spread the wealth in the name of fairness, why does he not "give" say 200 million of his own campaign money to McCain or Nader or Barr ----- or to charity?
Let's define rich. I say that someone making $250,000/year is rich. Do we agree? Or are you talking about some other income level?Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
So no I'm not disturbed that the rich "are making less and less money," because I don't believe that's true. I think you may be confusing the people in the middle class that are sinking into the underclass with the upper middle class that have become grotesquely wealthy in the last 2 decades.
I didn't see your link. All data for many years have shown that the American middle class is evaporating. Some of us are become extremely wealthy, while almost everyone else has a lower standard of living than their parents did. You haven't noticed?
Income Gap Is Widening, Data Shows - New York Times
For example:
I don't know anyone who is worth 440 times the minimum wage.Quote:
.. . the top 300,000 Americans collectively enjoyed almost as much income as the bottom 150 million Americans. Per person, the top group received 440 times as much as the average person in the bottom half earned, nearly doubling the gap from 1980.
The minimum wages now is just under $7/hr. 440 times 7/hr is about $3000/hour. Are you really defending someone who makes that much money? Especially when many of those hours are spent having lunch with other people making $3000/hour?
And of course, if you average together the people in the bottom half, they make more than $7/hr. Maybe $10? $12. So the people at the top are making at least $4000/hr, if not $5000/hr. Yes, there are really people who make that much.
I'm guessing you don't earn that much inthebox. So why do you care so much about whether someone who makes $10K-$40K/DAY can buy a new jet or house this year or has to wait until next year because their other spending is already so high? Is it because the rich DESERVE $4000/hour because they work so hard? Whereas, the waitress with two kids and two jobs never worked hard and is lazy and doesn't deserve to have good dental care? I don't even understand the reasoning. I assume it's personal. But since I can't politely ask about your own income, I'm baffled why presumably ordinary people defend such greediness and materialism.
Also from the 2007 New York Times article:
"Progressive taxes" is code for REDISTRIBUTING WEALTH.Quote:
The Bush administration argued that its tax policies, despite cuts that benefited those at the top more than others, had not added to the widening gap but “made the tax code more progressive, not less.” Brookly McLaughlin, the chief Treasury Department spokeswoman, said that this year “the share of income taxes paid by lower-income taxpayers will be lower than it would have been without the tax relief, while the share of income taxes for higher-income taxpayers will be higher.”
What is Bush? Some kind of socialist? :)
That's the same argument that goes along the lines of "If you are not against the war then why are you not in Iraq right now?" It's idiotic and serves no purpose but to set up a strawman.Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
I don't know if you count myself among the liberal population, but between my family and work responsibilities checking this site for arguments is an afterthought. BTW I've rarely read any posts here that are beyond questionable or debatable, especially foaming from the mouths of the Dubya tribe. I help with misnomers. What exactly are you wanting to comprehend about taxation and the IRS?? That I personally don't account for paying more taxes than Bill Gates. How silly! When I start generating his income, then I'll be more than happy to help the country and pay much more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by liz28
LOVE it! And I'm going to repost this if you don't mind, on my myspace =)
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
And do what? Buy seven more homes?
Very good!Quote:
Originally Posted by BABRAM
McCain isn't exactly financially needy, at least as long as he sticks with Cindy Hensen McCain. Anyway, the people who donated to the Obama campaign would be pretty unhappy if any of it went to McCain. That would be even worse than the $40 billion of bailout going to back pay for the executives who created the mess.
I guess making that big a mess was exceptionally hard work.
I posted the opposite earlier. According to the latest Census Bureau figures (pdf):Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
Income inequality decreased between 2006 and 2007, as measured by the shares of aggregate household income by quintiles and the Gini index.
Buffet's a very intelligent financial advisor. These arguments about a person making 250k a year not making ends meat, worried about taxation, when the vast majority of combined two income households in the US don't even make 80k is proof that the Pubs are way out of touch.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I didn't see anything of a person making 250k a year "not making ends meat [sic]" in tom's post, but I guess that was just another one of those "misnomers" you help people out with. If my eyes didn't deceive me (and they didn't) he said "these folks do not have teams of lawyers tucking their income away from the IRS grubbly hands" as does say, Warren Buffet. How many 250k...oops; 200k...oops; 150k...oops; 120k earners do you know that can afford "teams of lawyers" to tuck their money away?Quote:
Originally Posted by BABRAM
Yeah Bobby ;maybe one day I aspire to achieve his success. It won't happen because he has a much higher risk threshold than I do .
But I wonder if he would bother if he knew his initial successes had too many artificial road blocks contructed in front of them.
I am and always will be a worker. The degrees of success I have achieved are due to my hard work. But I did not go out and risk all to get to where I am. I found a rich guy who would hire me.
All evidence I see is that employers will reduce staffing if increased taxes are imposed.
Yeah that will help out Main Street!
Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Hey snappy pants... then why make it an issue?? Remember that lesson you learned the hard way about counting the teeth in my mouth? You're going to draw back a nub... again. Are you whining about making 250K when combined household incomes are not even close to that 120K number??
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Too late. Welcome to reality! People are being laid off in our country, left and right. This idea of threatening the middle and lower class with fear for your upper class trickle down BS buddies, has worn thin. What? Some corporate executive bigwig is going to kick the individual he just laid off out of the unemployment line because he's not getting a huge bonus this year? Bwa ha ha ha!
Snappy pants? Lesson I learned? Whoa... I'm so scared. Besides, I can't even see your teeth while you're in this position...Quote:
Originally Posted by BABRAM
Oh yes you can! I have to keep you somewhere.. my little happy turd! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
http://www.buzzworks.nl/files/produc...Happy_Turd.jpg
Yeah, we love how John McCain talks to his wife Cindy those are family values that all American's aspire too.
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