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Originally Posted by tomder55

We need new names for them that reflect their decisions to ruin the lives of children by forcing cities to shut down schools when everyday precautions that everyone else in the country is told to do to prevent covid infection could and should be exercised

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We need to face the fact that our best practice is not 100% effective. It's just all we got! We can cut down the risks and rates of infections, but can't stop it. To pretend otherwise is foolish. It only takes one case to start a spread, and destroy a family, or community.

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;and for their support for systemic racist policies that deny children's parents education choice. Maybe Antikid ?

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Not all parents have that choice and no one has addressed the ones that don't which could be considered just as racists.

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The UFT is proving it'sef to be the enemy of NYC parents .They have put their narrow ­interests over the best interests of children.They are holding NYC to ridiculously narrow standards . Now Quid's lead candidate for Sec Education is AFT Pres Randi Weingarten . She is a disaster .

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I realize your post is heavily local, but not uncommon everywhere, but must admit the low infection rates in NY are pretty low compared to almost anywhere else so something is working right but we can debate the interests of teachers unions and the way teachers are treated historically.

Joe's SEC of ED can't be any worse than Devos, even Weingarten.

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Not all parents have that choice and no one has addressed the ones that don't which could be considered just as racists.

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I don't know that I would call it racism, but the systemic denial of educational opportunity to lower income/inner city families needs to be addressed. Vouchers and private systems would be a good option.

Vouchers and private systems work for those that can get them on some level, but still leaves a bunch of kids behind. Maybe rethink how schools are funded would address some of those issues since local property taxes seem to be inadequate in economically challenged areas to fully provide for all the needs of the kids or teachers. This isn't a new discussion, but covid has exposed them and what's been done about them.

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Vouchers and private systems work for those that can get them on some level, but still leaves a bunch of kids behind

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That's kind of the whole point. Make them available to everyone who needs them. It costs no more money than we're spending now on public schools that don't work.

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Maybe rethink how schools are funded would address some of those issues since local property taxes seem to be inadequate in economically challenged areas to fully provide for all the needs of the kids or teachers.

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Money is not the problem. The last school I worked in had buildings that were in bad shape and many shortcomings, and yet consistently was in the top 20% of schools for test scores in our state. It's not the money.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

That's kind of the whole point. Make them available to everyone who needs them. It costs no more money than we're spending now on public schools that don't work.

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Begs the question of why the public schools don't work.

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Money is not the problem. The last school I worked in had buildings that were in bad shape and many shortcomings, and yet consistently was in the top 20% of schools for test scores in our state. It's not the money.

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Then what is it?

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Then what is it?

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It's a combination of a number of things. Children from single parent homes do not do as well on average as children from two parent homes. Kids from low income homes do not do as well. You combine those two, and you have a challenge. It is hard to recruit teachers and administrators to inner city schools because discipline is frequently not good. State testing systems also challenge inner city schools because a teacher can do a great job and work very hard, and yet have only moderate test score results, and that is discouraging.

In a private school, they have the ability to hold students to stricter standards.

And what about teacher education in colleges and universities? Are the teacher-ed students taught how to manage a classroom of 25-30 students, how to write lesson plans, how to discipline, how to show and encourage love and respect for one another?

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Are the teacher-ed students taught how to manage a classroom of 25-30 students,

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Classes are typically not that large, but yes, as much as can be done in a college classroom, they are taught classroom management.

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how to write lesson plans,

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That is taught to an extreme for sure.

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how to discipline, how to show and encourage love and respect for one another?

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All of that seems to be "taught", but that's like trying to teach someone how to weld in a classroom. My experience was that either a teacher could do it or he/she couldn't. All the theory in the world tends to fall apart when a third grade student walks up and says, "Get out of my face you bitxh." In my school, that would be responded to VIGOROUSLY. In fact, it never happened in my 34 years, but in inner city schools now, it is not uncommon. Female teachers in particular will not stick around for that very long. When I was in school, the principal would have torn my rear end up if I had said that, and then my father would have finished the job at home. I would certainly not have said it a second time, assuming I was still alive.

These are the metrics I used in the process of evaluating our educational system.

https://www.insider.com/us-states-pu...outh-dakota-33

https://pgui.com/charter-schools-vs-...nd%20donations.

https://www.understood.org/en/school...w-they-compare

https://www.understood.org/en/school...DFwUjd3NHVFeFE.

http://delphifl.org/private-vs-publi...culums-differ/

I will maintain that money IS an issue since services, and special needs are more important than a building per say. Maybe not in your school or county/city/state, but in others you bet. Single moms and their kids may have extra needs to be met, and can't be just written off as an excuse for failure.

A lot to individually evaluate with so many different approaches and attitudes.

I did not say that money was not AN issue. I said money was not the problem. There is plenty of money. Besides, results do not follow money. Washington D.C. spends an incredible amount of money per pupil but gets very little for it. I'm for giving parents the liberty to put their kids in private schools. We've tried the public route and it's time to try something else...freedom.

What do private schools have that public don't (or can't get)?

To begin with, it would not be a low performing school where your child is currently forced by government to attend. Beyond that, private schools are not burdened with many of the ridiculous regs public schools have to deal with. They invariably spend money more wisely than do public schools. Perhaps most important is the issue of buy in. When parents send their kids to private schools, even if with public money, they do so because they WANT their child at that school. So the student is sent in with some expectation of performance by the parent or parents. That is an enormous determining factor in school success.

Too many private schools are nowhere near a student's home/neighborhood, thus too often there's a major problem just physically getting to a private school.

If the market is there, the schools will start. Private enterprise. It's wonderful!

The market may be there but that market can't build and maintain a private school. Then what?

It works like this. Parents receive vouchers. They can take the voucher to a public school or a private school. It's the parent's choice. If there is not a private school, then it is safe to assume that there is no market there since parents are satisfied with the public school, and that's fine.

But the parents want to send their children to a private school, but only a disreputable, falling-apart public school is within a reasonable distance. Now what?

If you are looking for a perfect scenario, then you can't possibly support a public school only scenario. In Baltimore, for instance, there are a number of middle/high schools where not a single student scored proficient in math or language arts. That is not acceptable to me. It's time to try something else. If it is a less imperfect solution, then we are way ahead.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

To begin with, it would not be a low performing school where your child is currently forced by government to attend. Beyond that, private schools are not burdened with many of the ridiculous regs public schools have to deal with. They invariably spend money more wisely than do public schools. Perhaps most important is the issue of buy in. When parents send their kids to private schools, even if with public money, they do so because they WANT their child at that school. So the student is sent in with some expectation of performance by the parent or parents. That is an enormous determining factor in school success.

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The state and feds as well as local governments regulate schools.

https://www.findlaw.com/education/ed...ic-school.html

You can elaborate on burdensome regs if you like, but I also found these interesting articles to consider.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikemcs...h=231ffa5a629c

https://www.publicschoolreview.com/b...s...%20More%20

Describe it as you will, for those of us who care about kids in the inner cities, something needs to be done. More regs and more money are not the answer. If they were, then Washington D.C. would be a model district. They are, in fact, terrible.