Quote:

---

Originally Posted by talaniman

At least after this horrendous tragedy NZ will look to tighten already strict gun laws, unlike here where we give sympathy and prayers after mass shootings even if they are our kids.

---

I don't know where you get the idea NZ gun laws are tight, there are enough guns in NZ for one in 4 people so when you exclude children that means one per adult, there is no gun registration and assault style weapons such as your AR15 are permitted even foreign nationals can hold a permit.

Some of us understand that public safety comes before "freedom" to kill at will

Quote:

---

And arm "the good guys."

---

all the good guys were armed and what good did it do them?

Quote:

---

there is no gun registration and assault style weapons such as your AR15 are permitted even foreign nationals can hold a permit.

---

There is no registration, but there are permits? Sounds like two different ways to arrive at the same goal, which is government control.

I know of no country where there is freedom "to kill at will".

Quote:

---

And arm "the good guys."

---

That would mean I get to keep my guns. Good plan!

Why we should be armed? 2 shot and 1 dead in Kentucky home invasion would help explain it.

Yeah, maybe that's all anyone can do is protect themselves at home, while the loonies run rampant at schools, churches, malls, restaurants, and movie theaters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by talaniman

Yeah, maybe that's all anyone can do is protect themselves at home, while the loonies run rampant at schools, churches, malls, restaurants, and movie theaters.

---

Yes loonies you allow to have guns

Anybody, anywhere can get a gun if they want it. Even loonies.

WG: And arm "the good guys."

Quote:

---

JL: That would mean I get to keep my guns. Good plan!

---

But sometimes "good guys" turn into "bad guys" because of mental illness, stressors, a personal tragedy. Methinks it would be best if we're armed with spitballs.

NZ has tighter gun laws than we have . So do the Dutch who had a mass shooting incident today. Here is the US the states with the strictest laws have the most shootings .

It obviously takes more than laws to deter bad human behavior.

exactly

Yes what it takes is to remove opportunity

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paraclete

Yes what it takes is to remove opportunity

---

There is no end to opportunities!

Some of us don't live with the same set of opportunities, and you know it feels a lot safer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paraclete

Some of us don't live with the same set of opportunities, and you know it feels a lot safer

---

Opportunities aren't the problem. The mindset of the shooter is the problem.

I could be talked into tighter controls for gun purchases, if that is accompanied by tighter sentencing laws for gun criminals and some way to screen out people with serious mental problems.

In the meantime, the supposed anti-gun crowd in Hollywood continue to get rich by selling movies with, you guessed it, lots of gun violence.

Quote:

---

some way to screen out people with serious mental problems.

---

That's not going far enough. Even a one-time disappointment -- guy gets fired or gets dumped by his girlfriend or is cockolded -- when he is debased in some way. How do we predict that and his reaction?

Bad guys with guns don't worry about rules or fair play so they pick the weakest at their most vulnerable moment to ambush them. That's why they are bad guys. At least they caught the guy in NZ. Hope they get the guy in the Netherlands. Small consolation for the loss of life.

I think this is a really complicated issue that goes beyond just gun control. Stopping evil psychopaths before they kill is darn near impossible unless you ban all guns period. Not holding my breathe for that because killers bent on killing will find a way. Making them pay is so inadequate. If they didn't care about the lives they took, they certainly don't care about their own life or a loss of freedom.

Quote:

---

I think this is a really complicated issue that goes beyond just gun control. Stopping evil psychopaths before they kill is darn near impossible unless you ban all guns period.

---

The psychos are responsible for what, 1% of the homicides? The rest are committed by people who are sane, angry, and have no moral values.

Quote:

---

If they didn't care about the lives they took, they certainly don't care about their own life or a loss of freedom.

---

That's why they don't devise an escape plan and end up getting shot by police. Or are so overwhelmed by shame or anger or hopelessness that they kill themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by talaniman

Bad guys with guns don't worry about rules or fair play so they pick the weakest at their most vulnerable moment to ambush them. That's why they are bad guys. At least they caught the guy in NZ. Hope they get the guy in the Netherlands. Small consolation for the loss of life.

I think this is a really complicated issue that goes beyond just gun control. Stopping evil psychopaths before they kill is darn near impossible unless you ban all guns period. Not holding my breathe for that because killers bent on killing will find a way. Making them pay is so inadequate. If they didn't care about the lives they took, they certainly don't care about their own life or a loss of freedom.

---

Tal it isn't necessary to ban all guns. I think we have demonstrated that, you remove the weapons capable of mass slaughter. This is inconvenient for those merchants of death, the gun manufacturers, they have to confine themselves to the military. So the answer lies in restricting access to high powered weapons and explosives. I know terrorists are capable of using other devices, aircraft, vehicles but it really starts with not making it easy

I don't know Clete. A handgun with a large capacity clip can mow down a lot of people in a short time. Two clips and more will die. A killer can find what he wants and does, and no one is the wiser until he's done.