Hello again, clete:

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This is a contensious issue but the theory of evolution doesn't stand the test of fact and should not be taught as fact but as an explanation of some observations.

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You MUST know why I was asking about vaccinations, don't you? That's because an ENTIRE field science is BASED on evolution, and it's called BIOLOGY. And, biology is the basis of modern MEDICINE. You don't think they base that on an OBSERVATION, do you?? If you do, it must be TERRIFYING to go to a doctors office.

I know these facts won't penetrate your religious shield. It just won't let you see the truth..

Excon

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This is a contensious issue but the theory of evolution doesn't stand the test of fact and should not be taught as fact but as an explanation of some observations.

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Why should we take religion as fact? There's no evidence there either.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, clete:
You MUST know why I was asking about vaccinations, don't you?? That's because an ENTIRE field science is BASED on evolution, and it's called BIOLOGY. And, biology is the basis of modern MEDICINE. You don't think they base that on an OBSERVATION, do you???? If you do, it must be TERRIFYING to go to a doctors office.

I know these facts won't penetrate your religious shield. It just won't let you see the truth..

excon

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Ex you too are confusing observations with fact. Biology is observation. As little as two centuries ago they were cutting up dead bodies to observe how they might function. If doctors knew what they were doing in every instance all disease would be eradicated by now. Right now my doctor tells me I have a condition called shingles consisting of severe head pain and pins and needles confined to the left hemisphere of my head. Medical science suggests he may be wrong so he is going to have me have a CT scan. If his knowledge were perfect based on a study of biology he would have cured me by now, he hasn't, just treated the symptoms with limited success. What I know is sometimes they make the right call based on observation, sometimes they do not and I don't expect them to perform miracles but to apply the knowledge they have

My religious point of view doesn't interfere with me consulting a doctor and by the way this doctor shares my religious views

Why it's so hard to get the flu vaccine supply right - NBC News.com

Measles outbreak tied to Texas megachurch sickens 21 - NBC News.com

And this proves what?

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Originally Posted by paraclete

and this proves what?

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That children are getting sick and even dying unnecessarily because their parents refused to get them vaccinated.

Vaccine Coverage High in U.S., but Measles Outbreaks a Concern: CDC

That diseases can spread without vaccinations. DUH!!

Shooting the Wheeze: Whooping Cough Vaccine Falls Short of Previous Shot

Diseases can spread with vaccinations too. Point being the science isn't perfect. I don't agree with religious people undermining public health programs without very good reason, but vaccinations have proven effective against many diseases even to the point of eradication and if extended into the third world would make a significant difference. I didn't appreciate bringing back whooping cough when I visited Pakistan a few years ago and I had been vaccinated before I went

You see I can take a fundamentalist view on many things and a pragmatist view on others because I don't try to allege that I have the whole truth on all matters

Religion is being treated here as if it were a single monolithic idea. It's not. There are many religions, often, as all the world knows, denying the truth of other religions.

Religion, any aspect of it, should not be taught in public schools (see the First Amendment).

Creationism, or ID, is hardly a theory in any scientific sense. It is a belief - a religious belief. The proper venue for teaching this is the home and/or the church/synagogue/mosque, etc.

Religion at its best has lasted for millennia because, overall, it is a tremendous force for good.

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Originally Posted by Athos

Religion is being treated here as if it were a single monolithic idea. It's not. There are many religions, often, as all the world knows, denying the truth of other religions.

Religion, any aspect of it, should not be taught in public schools (see the First Amendment).

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Such an idea is unique to america and quite at odds with its foundation. Your constitution deals with the setting up of a state religion, that is the exclusion of other religions, not the teaching of religion

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Creationism, or ID, is hardly a theory in any scientific sense. It is a belief - a religious belief. The proper venue for teaching this is the home and/or the church/synagogue/mosque, etc.

Religion at its best has lasted for millennia because, overall, it is a tremendous force for good.

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Creationism is not intelligent design. Intelligent design recognises the qualities that make evolution unlikely and therefore comes from scientific observation.

Religion has lasted because man has recognised that there is an intelligence other than his own at work

Hello again, clete:

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Your constitution deals with the setting up of a state religion, that is the exclusion of other religions, not the teaching of religion

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An employee of the state teaching religion is an endorsement of that religion, and tantamount to "establishing" it. The state can't DO that. There's no two ways around it.

Excon

Ex you take definitions to extreme. If that state employee teaches one religion to the exclusion of all others you may be correct but if such teaching is not endoresed by the state you are not. What one person does cannot be interpretted as an act of the state. It becomes an act of the state if the state says teach this to the exclusion of all other views and if it does this with evolution it establishes a state religion, a secular religion. So what you would have us do is in fact unconstitutional

The state does not endorse a religion by teaching what the religion believes .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The state does not endorse a religion by teaching what the religion believes .

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Exactly

Hello again,

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The state does not endorse a religion by teaching what the religion believes .

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I would agree, if the state taught what ALL religions believe... You could call that class RELIGION... It would be GOOD...

But, if you teach it in a SCIENCE class, and it's only ONE religions viewpoint, it's clearly a REBUTTAL to science. That's BAD!

Excon

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If we teach Creationism in science class, when those kids graduate, will they know how to MAKE a rocket ship, or PRAY for one?

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If science ignores evidence that contradicts its dogma that isn't science either. And by the way, you really should study up on and gain some respect for Christian thinkers and their scientific contributions. We're not stupid.

Hello again, Steve:

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We're not stupid.

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No, but you're part of the borg.

Let me ask you this.. Let's say there's a guy, whose opinion you really REALLY respect, and then you find out he BELIEVES in the tooth fairy. Would you STILL respect him? Would it invalidate his opinion on, say, Global Warming?

I knew a guy named Werner Erhardt. People said he KNEW how to live life. We should listen and pay him money. Then we found out he beat his wife. Would knowing that INVALIDATE what he said about how to live life?

Excon

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

If science ignores evidence that contradicts its dogma that isn't science either. And by the way, you really should study up on and gain some respect for Christian thinkers and their scientific contributions. We're not stupid.

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They took many positions the church didn't like back then, and now. Many paid a price of retribution from the church. The church doesn't like science that contradicts its dogma.