“If towns remain divided—if Catholics and Protestants can't see ourselves in one another and fear or resentment are allowed to harden—that too encourages division and discourages cooperation,” the US president said.

Understand?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

“If towns remain divided—if Catholics and Protestants can’t see ourselves in one another and fear or resentment are allowed to harden—that too encourages division and discourages cooperation,” the US president said.

Understand?

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Interesting. You've changed what he said, kept it in quotes, and made no attempt to show how you are now misquoting him. Leaving out the all-important "schools" may help your agenda but lays bare what you did.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

“If towns remain divided—if Catholics and Protestants can’t see ourselves in one another and fear or resentment are allowed to harden—that too encourages division and discourages cooperation,” the US president said.

Understand?

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What Athos said. Tis not I who does not understand.

You want an honest debate? Ok, I'll grant you that those other things also discourage cooperation in Obama's eyes if you'll grant that one doesn't single out Catholic and Protestant schools unless they're meant to be a specific target.

He was in Ireland talking to Catholics and Protestants. Both CHRISTIANS. That's the audience he was speaking to, EQUALLY. He said you guys done good keep up the good work.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

does this wanker go around interferring in the internal affairs of any place he sets his foot.

The Irish problems go way back to the Norman conquest and the treatment of the natives, now where have I heard that before, what England did in Ireland was genocide over many centuries and the resentment remains.Omama has forgotten his roots otherwise he wouldn't talk that way to an oppressed people

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Yup , now I'm the 1st to admit that the IRA was a bunch of bad actors that made the situation worse. But there is no doubt that the problems in Northern Ireland were the result of the Brits trying to maintain an empire there.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

yup , now I'm the 1st to admit that the IRA was a bunch of bad actors that made the situation worse. But there is no doubt that the problems in Northern Ireland were the result of the Brits trying to maintain an empire there.

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I don't applaud the IRA Tom they are like the Taliban and while they operate peace wasn't possible, but there are times when a population must stand up to the bullying. In Ireland that bullying was by a protected minority who used religious grounds for their discrimination I have heard masons in Scotland say how dedicated they were to supporting what the protestants in Ireland were doing even to the point of fighting

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Originally Posted by talaniman

He was in Ireland talking to Catholics and Protestants. Both CHRISTIANS. That's the audience he was speaking to, EQUALLY. He said you guys done good keep up the good work.

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So in other words you don't want to have an honest discussion.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

So in other words you don't want to have an honest discussion.

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If you want to have an honest discussion then you would need to change your idea that the conflict was predominately a religious conflict. History doesn't seem to support the idea of religious wars. By this I mean the conflict could just as easily be viewed as an ethnic conflict.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

So in other words you don't want to have an honest discussion.

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I am having one, and have submitted my honest opinion on what the President said.

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Originally Posted by Tuttyd

If you want to have an honest discussion then you would need to change your idea that the conflict was predominately a religious conflict. History doesn't seem to support the idea of religious wars. By this I mean the conflict could just as easily be viewed as an ethnic conflict.

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I can agree but separating an ethnic group from their religion, especially when its thrown in the mix by one side or another, rightly or wrongly, is extremely difficult. Religious principle is often tied to ethnic identity.

Most conflicts I think are simply promoting self interest of who controls what, and who is enriched by it. Be it tribes and territory, or governments and nations. US vs THEM is never a good starting point for cooperation and MUTUAL benefit.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I am having one, and have submitted my honest opinion on what the President said.

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I've decided "an honest discussion" means we all have to agree. I've disagreed, given my opinion, and been scolded for not being honest.

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Originally Posted by Tuttyd

If you want to have an honest discussion then you would need to change your idea that the conflict was predominately a religious conflict. History doesn't seem to support the idea of religious wars. By this I mean the conflict could just as easily be viewed as an ethnic conflict.

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Tut, did you miss my words in the OP?

'I guess he doesn't realize The Troubles wasn't really a religious conflict'

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I've decided "an honest discussion" means we all have to agree. I've disagreed, given my opinion, and been scolded for not being honest.

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That was totally dishonest.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

text is here ..
Obama?s Speech in Belfast to Youth of Northern Ireland | IIP Digital

Nothing distorted . He equated Catholic Schools with segregation .

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Not exactly.If you read a little further on you would see that he equated segregated schools, housing and lack of job opportunity as symbols of divisions rather than actual divisions. I think he got that bit right. Symbolism has always been important in Northern Irish politics. Probably still does.

In the quote provided by the OP he does appear to make reference to actual schools and institutions as a source of divisions, but this is further complicated whereby he again talks about these these things in terms of symbols in the following paragraph.

This is why it is important to provide all quotes that are relevant to the issue. Not just partial quotes

You can parse it that way if you choose. Bottom line is that the implied message is a call for an end to separate Protestant and Catholic educational institutions.

I don't get what's so difficult to understand, he said flat out If Catholics and Protestants have separate schools it contributes to division and discourages cooperation. There can only be one implied meaning, that has to end.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

You can parse it that way if you choose. Bottom line is that the implied message is a call for an end to separate Protestant and Catholic educational institutions.

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The problem is that your bottom line is not everyone's bottom line. This is why I will give the preceding bit that was left out of the OP posting:

Because issues like segregated schools and housing, lack of jobs and opportunity--SYMBOLS OF HISTORY* that are of pride for some and pain for others--these are not a tangential to peace, there essential to it.. . * my emphasis.

It then goes on to the OP posted quote
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My bottom line is different to your bottom line. This is why anyone who provides an OP quote needs to include all relevant information. Everyone is free to give their bottom line AFTER they have given the complete picture.

Why is it you don't hold the others here to that standard? You let much more egregious violations of your standard go on a regular basis.

Maybe the Catholic Bishops of Ireland missed all the subtle nuance.

Hopefully they revisit the entirety of this speech and temper their reaction because its notable that not everyone who heard it came to the same conclusion as the bishops did.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I don't get what's so difficult to understand, he said flat out If Catholics and Protestants have separate schools it contributes to division and discourages cooperation. There can only be one implied meaning, that has to end.

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No, there are other solutions.