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Originally Posted by paraclete

it's rediculous, I don't know about you but we used to have Christmas issue stamps, manger and all, noone worried about it, then we got all PC because of some stupid minority, now the Lord Mayor of Sydney doesn't even want to celebrate Christmas, of course she is Gay and stupid so what else would you expect, you can have a Gay parade but you can't celebrate Christmas, there's equality for you, or perhaps there is another word for it, but I know where we imported the idea from

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We always have 'holiday' stamps. For now at least, until ex rights that wrong.

Hello again, tom:

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National Menorah set to be lit in Washington for Hanukkah | Reuters

Nah ,no war on Christmas in this country .

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Need I remind you that it's no more legal for them to light a menorah than it is to display a crèche?

My war is against government and religion cozying up to each other. It's a pretty simple concept. It's in the Constitution. You must have read it. The FOUNDERS would be rolling over in their graves if they saw this crap. You wingers DO like the founders, don't you?

Excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, tom:

Need I remind you that it's no more legal for them to light a menorah than it is to display a crèche?

My war is against government and religion cozying up to each other. It's a pretty simple concept. It's in the Constitution. You must have read it. The FOUNDERS would be rolling over in their graves if they saw this crap. You wingers DO like the founders, don't you?

excon

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The founders believed none of this was possible WITHOUT religion.

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Benjamin Franklin, The Writings of Benjamin Franklin, Jared Sparks, editor (Boston: Tappan, Whittemore and Mason, 1840), Vol. X, p. 297, April 17, 1787. )

I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that "except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing governments by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.

I therefore beg leave to move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service.

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[I]t is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. -John Adams

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Hello again, Steve:

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The founders believed none of this was possible WITHOUT religion.

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Again, you miss the point. That's probably because you can't argue THE POINTS I'm making.

This isn't ABOUT religion.. I LOVE religion... This is about religion and government working in cahoots with each other, and THAT'S something the founders would ABHOR.

Excon

Nah they had no problem with states and religion working with each other . They did not like the Church of England and it's presecutions of other religions ,and the fact that the King of England was the head of the church. Hence the establishment clause where Congress could not establish an official church of the state . Like I already pointed out ;all of the founders came from states that had official state religions .They lived most of their adult life in these states where there was a state religion. The people of Massachusetts as an example lived with the Congregational church as the official church of the state until disestablishment in
1833 8 years AFTER John Adams died and 44 years AFTER ratification of the Constitution.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

Again, you miss the point. That's probably because you can't argue THE POINTS I'm making.

This isn't ABOUT religion.. I LOVE religion... This is about religion and government working in cahoots with each other, and THAT'S something the founders would ABHOR.

excon

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Really ex? You're the one not only missing the point, you either have no understanding of our history or are in complete denial of it. The notion that that the founders would abhor religion and government working in cahoots is laughable.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

The notion that that the founders would abhor religion and government working in cahoots is laughable.

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Which religion?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Which religion?

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Never mind.

I keep hoping to have a year without hearing about the war on Christmas but sadly it never seems to happen. PC fools are now even whining about Charlie Brown Christmas. I'm not religious at all but I love tradition and for me it will always be a Christmas tree, Merry Christmas and I will always watch Charlie Brown. There was a case in Arkansas recently where a group of school children were going to go on a voluntary trip to see a production of Charlie Brown Christmas but it was cancelled because one anonymous parent objected. The thing that bothers me most about these PC types is that they are only pretending to be offended, they are really just troublemakers who like to thumb their noses at the majority because they like to flout convention, the way some immature teen has green hair and ten rings in their face. I wish people would tell them to shut up instead of caving to their demands.

But that's the ones you hear about, not the thousands of Xmas events that occur without a peep from anyone.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

But that's the ones you hear about, not the thousands of Xmas events that occur without a peep from anyone.

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Things are good here in Christmassy Chicagoland!

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

But that's the ones you hear about, not the thousands of Xmas events that occur without a peep from anyone.

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So only because it's a little bit more loss of freedom it's no big deal?

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So only because it's a little bit more loss of freedom it's no big deal?

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Who said it was no big deal? Who said anything about a loss of freedom? Religious people have plenty of freedom to pursue and celebrate their religion in their places of worship and their homes.

Hello again, Steve:

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So only because it's a little bit more loss of freedom it's no big deal?

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You don't OWN the public square. You're NOT free to use it as YOU choose... Your freedom ENDS where mine BEGINS.. You're FREE to celebrate as much as you want on YOUR property, but NOT on mine.

Excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

You don't OWN the public square. You're NOT free to use it as YOU choose... Your freedom ENDS where mine BEGINS.. You're FREE to celebrate as much as you want on YOUR property, but NOT on mine.

excon

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Again I go back to the school benefit concert which you refuse to comment on for some reason. How does a Christian volunteering for a secular event at a school encroach on your freedom? How does that violate separation of church and state? And I tell you what, if you guys start trying to get Christmas removed as a national holiday sh!t will hit the fan.

Hello again, Steve:

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How does a Christian volunteering for a secular

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I'm not responsible for every silly thing somebody does... It has NOTHING to do with MY argument. The public square belongs to ME as much as it does you.

Would it piss you off if I set up, in the public square, a HUGE, unbelievably LARGE sign saying that Christmas is BUNK, and Christians are STUPID?

Look, if you can express YOUR religion there, so can I.

Excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

I'm not responsible for every silly thing somebody does... It has NOTHING to do with MY argument. The public square belongs to ME as much as it does you.

Would it piss you off if I set up, in the public square, a HUGE, unbelievably LARGE sign saying that Christmas is BUNK, and Christians are STUPID??

Look, if you can express YOUR religion there, so can I.

excon

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I couldn't care less if you did such a thing on your dollar. I'm not as intolerant as you seem to believe.

Usually Canada is known for being too politically correct but yesterday the government took a stand that really made me and most normal people proud. They said there would be no tolerance for PC types trying to ruin Christmas for normal people and that people would be free to celebrate Christmas in traditional ways even at government offices and public places, good for them, if only every country could do the same.

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Originally Posted by earl237

Usually Canada is known for being too politically correct but yesterday the government took a stand that really made me and most normal people proud. They said there would be no tolerance for PC types trying to ruin Christmas for normal people and that people would be free to celebrate Christmas in traditional ways even at governement offices and public places, good for them, if only every country could do the same.

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Love it. I'm fed up with PC nonsense.

Hello again,

I LOVE the liberal NY Times. Not being a learned man, I always enjoy a bit of history... Turns out the Puritans weren't too gung ho for Christmas, either... In fact, the Puritans in the Massachusetts Bay Colony went one step further and actually outlawed the celebration of Christmas. From 1659 to 1681, anyone caught celebrating Christmas in the colony would be fined five shillings.

Indeed, the Puritan War on Christmas lasted up to 1870, when Christmas became a legally recognized federal holiday. Until then, men and women were expected to go to work, stores were expected to remain open, and many churches did not even hold religious services.

Whoda thunk all that?

excon