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At least decisions are made so government can getting on with the business at hand.

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Tell the Dems to come to the table and work it out.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Tell the Dems to come to the table and work it out.

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Sounds reasonable but I don't think they will listen to me.

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Originally Posted by Tuttyd

You have got 1 out of 3 correct. "Rights are rights" has no validity in this case because it is a tautology. It doesn't necessarily render the whole statement you made meaningless, but that is partly in error as well. This is because the only way rights can be realized is by people dreaming up legislation. Can you think of any other way of giving expression to these rights other than legislation?

The bit you got rights is that legislation can be tested against rights is actually correct. This is why some laws are deemed unconstitutional.



At least decisions are made so government can getting on with the business at hand.

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You might not see them as rights... but we in the USA do... and we have for several hundred years... in fact we fought a war with England over it.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

You might not see them as rights....but we in the USA do...and we have for several hundred years...in fact we fought a war with England over it.

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I think you might need to revisit your American history again.

First of all where did I say they weren't rights? In fact I actually arguing they are rights.

Having said that it is irrelevant to the truth or falsity of your statement as to what I see or the rest of the population see as correct.

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Originally Posted by Tuttyd

I think you might need to revisit your American history again.

First of all where did I say they weren't rights? In fact I actually arguing they are rights.

Having said that it is irrelevant to the truth or falsity of your statement as to what I see or the rest of the population see as correct.

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Really... all the way from Australia you KNOW what the rest of the USA sees them as... but I don't... Thats mighty presumptuous isn't it?

The fact such a large percentage of the USA owns at least one gun indicates they view it as I do... its only the loudmouth liberals here that don't think they are rights... the same ones that want to pick and chose which of the other "Rights" enumerated in our Bill of rights they think we are entitled to. And what anyone outside of the USA thinks means absolutely nothing... because what they think has absolutely no value. Because they aren't US Citizens. They can cower in fear of criminals... because they are unarmed and unable to defend themselves in their own homes in their own country.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Really...all the way from Austrailia you KNOW what the rest of the USA sees them as....but I don't....Thats mighty presumptuous isn't it?

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Yes, it would be presumptuous, but I didn't say that.

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Originally Posted by Tuttyd

Yes, it would be presumptuous, but I didn't say that.

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Originally Posted by Tuttyd

I think you might need to revisit your American history again.

First of all where did I say they weren't rights? In fact I actually arguing they are rights.

Having said that it is irrelevant to the truth or falsity of your statement as to what I see or the rest of the population see as correct.

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Fact is what anyone thinks is irrelevant.. because it's a right and would require a change to the constitution to change... which can not simply be legislated. Ratification my a supermajority of the States would be required.

And it legally can be done absent the input of House or Senate... or the President. As there is a mechanism built into it for that very purpose.

Repubs don't want to pay the price of waiting until the last minute and screwing things up since both house and senate budgets were on the table in April, of this year.

Their dithering was intentional, and destructive. Now they whine that nobody wants to talk to them.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Repubs don't want to pay the price of waiting until the last minute and screwing things up since both house and senate budgets were on the table in April, of this year.

Their dithering was intentional, and destructive. Now they whine that nobody wants to talk to them.

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Yes I agree the Democrats dithering was intentional and destructive... we've been saying that all along when Prince Harry was refusing to even let anything see a vote. Glad you've finally come around to see it too.

I was referencing republican intransigence at not forming a conference committee in April, where this could be hashed out under the rules. The senate had a conference committee ready to go, and the chairman sent 18 letters in regards to this that where not acted on.

That's what makes current events utter BS, theater, and lies.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Repubs don't want to pay the price of waiting until the last minute and screwing things up since both house and senate budgets were on the table in April, of this year.

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It only took the Senate almost 4 years to pass a budget, why are you in a hurry now?

To avoid another credit down grade, and fiscal chaos, and my buddies who have yet to retire losing all their 401k money, and 1.2 billion dollars a week added to the deficit.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

To avoid another credit down grade, and fiscal chaos, and my buddies who have yet to retire losing all their 401k money, and 1.2 billion dollars a week added to the deficit.

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Since when are you worried about the deficit?

To be honest, I am not because a deficit, and Americans are taken care of is acceptable to deficits that are wasted for nothing or given to someone flush with loot.

A shutdown for republican pride is stupid, since it only makes the loony wingers happy, until they start to suffer.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

To be honest, I am not because a deficit, and Americans are taken care of is acceptable to deficits that are wasted for nothing or given to someone flush with loot.

A shutdown for republican pride is stupid, since it only makes the loony wingers happy, until they start to suffer.

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It's not about pride, we cannot sustain the type of spending your side wants to engage in. I cannot believe even Democrats treat their personal budgets like they do the country's budget.

Most families run deficits. They have to, be it for car repair, or college tuition. Or catastrophic health concerns. Heck a broken leg is expensive even with insurance.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Most families run deficits. They have to, be it for car repair, or college tuition. Or catastrophic health concerns. Heck a broken leg is expensive even with insurance.

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No they don't HAVE to... they do it because they don't know how to or don't WANT to live within their means.

I know that for a fact because despite growing up fairly poor... and going through most of Jr And Sr High school during a crappy economy in a part of the country with a lot of poverty... with both parents having nothing but part time jobs AND a Mortgage... and two boys... They did it.

And it took almost losing everything I had in my 20's from spending more than I made to really grasp that lesson... which I have embraced since then... Except for the mortgage I haven't owed anyone anything that wasn't paid for immediately from money (not floated on a card or with a loan) on hand in almost 25 years. Not even a for a car. And I am below the average median income for the area I live.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Most families run deficits. They have to, be it for car repair, or college tuition. Or catastrophic health concerns. Heck a broken leg is expensive even with insurance.

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Most families do not run the type of deficit Washington does and you know it. The point was the people spending all our money do not manage their own budgets that way because it's unsustainable and stupid, why are they doing it to us and why do you excuse it?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Most families do not run the type of deficit Washington does and you know it. The point was the people spending all our money do not manage their own budgets that way because it's unsustainable and stupid, why are they doing it to us and why do you excuse it?

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Most families are not responsible for the whole freakin' country. And who shuts down their own household because they owe debts?

Well responsible families control their spending if they are running too much debt. They don't run to the bank and demand more credit .