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Originally Posted by smoothy

Never underestimate the stupidity or gullibility of the average consumer.

Hollywood, NPR, CBS, NBC, ABC all make their livings off that. Not to mention more than a few retailers.

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Don't forget Fox. Cause they ALL do it.

I'm not making judgement on the products... I'm not qualified . I'm a consumer. I know if I buy cr@p I don't come back for an updated model . That's why when I purchase cars I go to Toyota or Subaru dealers. I've had good experiences as a consumer with both.

I think I am acting as a typical consumer . Thus my premise that if the iPhone was indeed cr@p ,it would not sell out for multiple models over many years . Word would spread that it isn't worth it and that Nokia was the product to buy.
Maybe some Volvo owner will tell me that is the superior brand of auto to own ;that I'm stupid for wasting my money on my new Rav4 ,and maybe it is . But if that were so then they would own the market share.

Love this line in the WSJ editorial :

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It would be impossible to calculate the number of jobs and economic wealth Steve Jobs created both directly and indirectly. He was a winner, and he worked his wonders before government, this government, took upon itself the job of picking winners and losers. He didn't need a bailout or a $535 million stimulus loan guarantee. Steve Jobs created Apple; President Obama picked Solyndra.

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The Death Of Entrepreneurship - Investors.com

To me the iPhone is like living in a gated community where you must play by the community rules and if you break those rules you will be punsihed (ahem when jobs wanted to spy on people who jail broke their iphones aka traitorware)

It's funny but I remember there was this company that put out a commercial where everyone was brainwashed and thought the same way. Until one woman smashed the overlords screen. Ironic that Apple is now the overlord. Play by our rules or else!!

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Originally Posted by spitvenom

Ironic that Apple is now the overlord. Play by our rules or else!!!!

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That's why I'll never buy an Apple mp3 player, I couldn't believe people had to enter all that info in iTunes just to get their hardware to function - big deal breaker for me.

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Originally Posted by spitvenom

Don't forget Fox. Cause they ALL do it.

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Fox didn't portray Obama as the smartest man to ever run for office, absent any proof he even did well in school.

Which by the way apparently is still a greater national secret than everything Wikileaks got a hold of for some reason.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That's why I'll never buy an Apple mp3 player, I couldn't believe people had to enter all that info in iTunes just to get their hardware to function - big deal breaker for me.

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You don't "HAVE" to. Between me and my wife we have two Ipod Classics 160 gig. Neither are registered nor does apple even know who we are, we don't have actual accounts with Itunes and get all our music through... cough... cough... "other" sources.

Sure using the iTunes app is a PITA to load the player from your computer I agree compared to other non-apple products...but there are third party apps to do that.

I also have a Zune....(don't laugh, I got a refurb 120 gig for $120 on ebay). There are things the Zune does better, there are some the iPod does better.

But they both work better than the couple cheap Chinese knockoffs I've used in the past.

Actually one of the Ipods we found inthe middle of the street...had a few scratches, and I found the HD to have a bit of bad sectors, got a new front cover, and new 160gig 1.8" HD on eBay and for $90 I had a like new player I have hooked up to my Kenwood HD car stereo that will tune an IPod directy. The other Ipod I got for $150 as an Apple manufacturer refurb that looked brand new.

My daughter received as a present the cheapest one you can, a little nano. I have tons of mp3's I wanted to load onto it for her. The ONLY way to get the nano to "unlock" to allow us to use it was to enter your registration info in iTunes, which, if you don't know the work around, includes giving a credit card number. Never again.

I use an old Sony Walkman 2GB mp3 player which everything I need it to do: it's robust, I load the songs directly onto the player by dropping songs in a folder, no intermediary programs at all unless I choose one to manage my music.
It looks like this:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415dqcbfFoL.jpg

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

My daughter received as a present the cheapest one you can, a little nano. I have tons of mp3's I wanted to load onto it for her. The ONLY way to get the nano to "unlock" to allow us to use it was to enter your registration info in iTunes, which, if you don't know the work around, includes giving a credit card number. Never again.

I use an old Sony Walkman 2GB mp3 player which everything I need it to do: it's robust, I load the songs directly onto the player by dropping songs in a folder, no intermediary programs at all unless I choose one to manage my music.
It looks like this:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415dqcbfFoL.jpg

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Never did that model... but I agree... I definitely would have an issue with having to give a CC# just to use something you bought and paid for.

Because my #1 use is for a music library when I'm driving... the Sony and most of the other ones didn't have enough storage capacity to suit me. I want to listen to whatever the mood may call for, and I do have varied tastes in music making that hard to fill on a tiny player.

500 to 600 songs at a time are plenty for me.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

500 to 600 songs at a time are plenty for me.

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Yeah that's a lot.. but if I felt a desire to listen to a different Genre... or different artist... not like I use it on the Bus or short trips.

Lot depends on how you use it...

I just use my droid for listening to music. I think me smoothy and NK all use cough cough other sources.

:D

I tried using my HTC Magic (MyTouch in the US) but it's not handy in the back on my cycling jersey to skip a song, with this one I reach back and do it by touch; same when I go on long*ish geocaching hikes.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

at what point do the consumers conclude a product is a pos and stop buying ? sooner or later they'd have to realize they aren't getting a quality product ..... no ?

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Its when they realize what they are missing. Until then they don't know so their blindness causes them to follow others. It works the same way through most of the consumer world. Now we have a generation that has grown up and gotten used to Wally world. Before when many of us were younger there was an expectation of quality and it showed in the products. In today's times everything is approaching a throw away status.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Its when they realize what they are missing. Until then they dont know so thier blindness causes them to follow others. It works the same way through most of the consumer world. Now we have a generation that has grown up and gotten used to Wally world. Before when many of us were younger there was an expectation of quality and it showed in the products. In todays times everything is approaching a throw away status.

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But its pretty and shiny and it's the "IN" thing... :D

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Originally Posted by smoothy

But its pretty and shiny and its the "IN" thing......:D

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Exactly. That's why Im glad I don't have to roll with the hype. I built my own computer years ago and it will still outrun all the newer "shiney" ones on the market today.

Its just amazing how far some consumers will go.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Its when they realize what they are missing. Until then they dont know so thier blindness causes them to follow others. It works the same way through most of the consumer world. Now we have a generation that has grown up and gotten used to Wally world. Before when many of us were younger there was an expectation of quality and it showed in the products. In todays times everything is approaching a throw away status.

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But its pretty and shiny and it's the "IN" thing... :D

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And it's ultimately COOL..

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Exactly. Thats why Im glad I dont have to roll with the hype. I built my own computer years ago and it will still outrun all the newer "shiney" ones on the market today.

Its just amazing how far some consumers will go.

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I've bought a total of TWO pre assembled computers in my life.

One was a used Ohio Scientific Superboard in 1981 or 1982. The other was a Packard Bell, 286 in 1988. Because I couldn't upgrade crap on that due to special cables etc... I swore I'd forever build my own from scratch so I can upgrade any piece I want. And I have. Dozens over the years.

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Originally Posted by Curlyben

And it's ultimately COOL..

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I don't worry about impressing anyone... I learned a long time ago... trying to be cool with stuff is like trying to chase a rainbow, you spend all your time (and money) trying, and in the end you still never get there. The gadget is never the cool thing very long, and there is always a newer, faster, cooler one coming out. You always will be cool to some people, and will never be to others, so why spend time and money trying.

My cell phone is company provided, has no data plan, and its since I pay nothing... its cheap.

What I don't spend to impress others... I can put in the bank for retirement. That's a lot of money over the years. I'd rather have a higher standard of living in my senior years than to impress anyone right now in my younger years.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

I've bought a total of TWO pre assembled computers in my life.

One was a used Ohio Scientific Superboard in 1981 or 1982. The other was a Packard Bell, 286 in 1988. Because I couldn't upgrade crap on that due to special cables etc...I swore I'd forever build my own from scratch so I can upgrade any piece I want. And I have. Dozens over the years.

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My first computers were Atari's and IBM PC's at work. The first ones I programed were 6502 and 8086. Those were the days. Lol

Im not including the "others" I had access to through U.C. Berkeley.