A couple thoughts. The problem with the nukes is not that they couldn't survive a 9.0... they did.

What is taking them out is the tsunami disabled the redundant pumping systems . That is a correctable problem.
Anyway ,I think the move to use nukes as a viable alternative to carbon based is pretty much a dead idea. Too bad.. We needed a bridge to these future technologies. What will be conveniently ignored is that reactors will continue to be used all over the developed world for other purposes. Reactors all over the world provide over 10,000 hospitals with the necessary radioisotopes for diagnostic and medical treatment . Would we shut them down too ?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The problem with the nukes is not that they couldn't survive a 9.0 ....they did.

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Hello again, tom:

That's one way to put it. Yes, PART of the plant survived - and PART didn't. The PART that didn't, though, kind of outweighs the PART that did. That's because from the public's point of view, whether a deadly leak came from THIS breaking or THAT breaking, makes no difference.

You say what went wrong is correctable. That's true - if we know what's going to happen. But, we don't. We can build them to withstand X, and HOPE a tad more than X doesn't happen. History has taught us one thing, for sure. When we build them to withstand X, we find out later that X was just a tad too light.

Speaking of Indian Point, if you were watching FOX over the weekend, you'd have found out that the plant was built to withstand a 3.0 earthquake. But, they discovered a brand new fault, and now believe that an earthquake of 7.0 is entirely possible. Seems Indian Point is a tad light, but this was FOX talking, so I don't know how reliable it is... You were watching, weren't you?

Should it be shut down?

excon

I was part of a lively debate locally a few years ago. The utility company wanted to put a modern gas powered generation plant in the area. The NIMBY's won that fight. Upstate just north of the Catskill Mountains the local utility wanted to build windmills . The NIMBY's won that fight too. They didn't want the windmills in their sightline . Now in the same area there is a raging debate because they are sitting on huge gas reserves stuck under shale formations. It would be an economic boom for a fairly depressed region. My guess is that the environmentalists will win that fight too.

When I lived on Long Island there was a long debate while LILCO built the Shoreham nuke plant. It was an economic boom for the community ,because it added revenues that offset some of the lowest property tax rates on the Island.
They finished the plant ;contaminated it with nuclear material while they tested it. Then Mario Cuomo refused to allow it license to operate.

Now the same folks who objected to the nukes also mobilized to prevent windmills off shore.
This is not unusual . Robert Kennedy Jr. that noted environmentalist turned NIMBY when they proposed windmills off Cape Cod.

Around the world everyone demands more energy .Yet there appears to be a problem with every generating means .

If you believe that carbon fuels cannot generate enough energy for the future;or believe they harm the environment so much that we cannot continue to use them... and believe as I do ,that renewables are a niche at best... then there has to be a bridge to the next generation of energy sources.

I think we have no choice but to build nukes and make them as safe as we can.

Indian Point should be inspected ;perhaps upgraded ,and then relicensed . It provides a third of the energy used in New York City and it's surrounding counties. I see nothing on the table to replace it.

Perhaps the left thinks they can run their house on a bicycle turned into a generator AKA like was used in Soylent Green in the apartment Charlton Heston shared with the old guy.

Bet they get over THAT really quick. Might work in California where it really doesn't get all that cold in winter... they would just have to sweat the summers out. And that Ice Cream is going to cost them a LOT of physical labor to keep cold.

Or let them try and grow their OWN food without ANY carbon based fuel.

And incidentally... most fertilizers are a byproduct of the petroleum industry... besides the tractors needed to till and harvest the fields.

Kill oil or make it expensive... Food is going to become scarce and expensive.


Unfortunately... nuclear power is the only non-carbon based fuel that can produce the electricity needed for life. And Solar cells or Wind power AREN'T options for everyone. Many places don't have reliable wind... and much of the country has cloud cover far too often for solar to be viable.

And like was mentioned... it wasn't the earthquake.. but the tsunami that took out the diesel backup generators for the cooling system that was the root of the problem.

I don't know enough about nuclear reactors to know if there is a design that had as a failsafe... A way to fully retract the rods that would allow the reactor to effectively shut down where short of the cooling system actually going dry would not require pumps to keep it cool even in a minimal shutdown status. That is without having other more dangerous risks inherent in the design.

Sorry to Hi-Jack the thread but this video of this religious girl is unbelievable I don't even have words for how disturbed I am after watching this sc*mbag.
YouTube - GOD IS SO GOOD!!!

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Originally Posted by spitvenom

Sorry to Hi-Jack the thread but this video of this religious girl is unbelievable I don't even have words for how disturbed I am after watching this sc*mbag.
YouTube - GOD IS SO GOOD!!!

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Religious fanatics are a scary bunch, regardless of the religion.

That's one girl who has a special place reserved for her... in Hades.

Someone should tell her there are quite a few Christians in Japan.

Well now it's getting kind of silly: Japan volcano: Earthquake, tsunami and potential nuclear meltdown not enough | Mail Online

I wasn't kidding when I referred to Godzilla .He represents every challenge that the Japanese have had to face in their history. Japan is cycles of building, flourishing, destruction and eventual rebirth.

This one spared Tokyo. But Tokyo endured complete destruction twice in the last century . 1923 it was flattened by an earth quake ,and in 1945 it was firebombed .
It is now the home of 30 million people... all living in the shadow of Mount Fuji.

Hello again,

We must keep in mind that according to the right wing, tsunamis and volcanoes are only a theory.

excon

Facts based on scientific empirical evidence is real.That would include the existence of volcanos and the reality that tectonic shifts cause tsunamis. These realities are not dependent on fraudulent data analysis.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

We must keep in mind that according to the right wing, tsunamis and volcanoes are only a theory.

excon

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No ex that's the alternative theory of earthly life, that The Earth is alive and fighting back. Let's face it ex, humans are a virus, sort of like a skin disease

Hello again, tom:

You mentioned earlier, that the plane that hit the twin towers flew right over Indian Point. How many people would have died if they flew the plane into that plant?

excon

None . The outer walls of the plant containment dome is reinforced concrete, about four feet thick at its thinnest point .

The planes that took down the Twin Towers had to penetrate glass. If the same planes had crashed into the Empire State Building it never would've happened .

But lets assume it breached the thick concrete wall of the containment dome. Would it breach the containment vessel ? No .

The reactor at Indian Point is underground under another 4 feet of concrete and steel reinforced floor .

Unlike the Japanese plants(which stored spent fuel on the roof) ,the spent fuel rods are stored under another structure with a protective flooring 40 feet deep and surrounded by many feet of solid concrete.

A commando force of terrorists would find stiff resistance and a building very difficult to penetrate. The security force is trained with automatic weapons ; the doors are steel reinforced and have an automatic lockdown .It has a razor wire perimeter and strategically placed machine gun turrets.
It takes seconds to shut the active plant completely down.

Trust me .There are many choicer targets for terrorists to hit in the greater NY area . They've attempted to hit them a number of times since 9-11. Along the same route is Yankee stadium . Routinely during baseball season there are 50,000 + people in this open stadium. A plane crashing inside the stadium would cause more casualties than anything they could do with Indian Point.

Have a read of Sum Of All Fears by Tom Clancy.

There they use a low level dirty nuke at the World Series final!

Yes I've read most of the Clancy Jack Ryan books.

The terrorists in that book got their weapon from an Israeli jet that had crashed.
His latest book ('Dead or Alive') has an OBL like cleric attempting to get material for a dirty bomb from Yucca Mountain.

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Originally Posted by Curlyben

Have a read of Sum Of All Fears by Tom Clancy.

There they use a low level dirty nuke at the World Series final !!

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Didn't read the book... but it did make a good movie. And movies rarely live up to the book.

The movie didn't live up to the book due to PC. The movie conconcted a group of neo-Nazi 'white supremists' as the terrorist group instead of the jihadists that Clancy used in the book.

Edit... it also used Ben Affleck instead of Harrison Ford.

As I expected... have read a LOT of books that later became movies over the years... NONE have ever really come close to living up to the book yet.