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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Chicken of the Sea closed its cannery in American Samoa last year because the federal government mandated a $7.25 an hour minimum wage. .

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$7.25 an hour? those guys were really living in luxury What you are saying is your industries can't exist without slave labour. Where I come from we pay our juniors more

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Originally Posted by paraclete

$7.25 an hour? those guys were really living in luxury What you are saying is your industries can't exist without slave labour. Where I come from we pay our juniors more

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Since the increase our "juniors" have gone from an unemployment rate of 15 percent to 25 percent, and over 50 percent for black teens. Like all those unemployed Samoans they can probably buy more things being employed than unemployed.

By the way, here's some more of that ingenuity, rationing the rich countries, or as they put it, "planned austerity."

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In one paper Professor Kevin Anderson, Director of the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research, said the only way to reduce global emissions enough, while allowing the poor nations to continue to grow, is to halt economic growth in the rich world over the next twenty years.

This would mean a drastic change in lifestyles for many people in countries like Britain as everyone will have to buy less ‘carbon intensive’ goods and services such as long haul flights and fuel hungry cars.

Prof Anderson admitted it “would not be easy” to persuade people to reduce their consumption of goods

He said politicians should consider a rationing system similar to the one introduced during the last “time of crisis” in the 1930s and 40s.

This could mean a limit on electricity so people are forced to turn the heating down, turn off the lights and replace old electrical goods like huge fridges with more efficient models. Food that has travelled from abroad may be limited and goods that require a lot of energy to manufacture.

“The Second World War and the concept of rationing is something we need to seriously consider if we are to address the scale of the problem we face,” he said.

Prof Anderson insisted that halting growth in the rich world does not necessarily mean a recession or a worse lifestyle, it just means making adjustments in everyday life such as using public transport and wearing a sweater rather than turning on the heating.

“I am not saying we have to go back to living in caves,” he said. “Our emissions were a lot less ten years ago and we got by ok then.”

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By the looks of things the bureaucrats are getting by OK now.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Since the increase our "juniors" have gone from an unemployment rate of 15 percent to 25 percent, and over 50 percent for black teens. Like all those unemployed Samoans they can probably buy more things being employed than unemployed.

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You just don't get it, the way to have a buoyant economy is to pay the kids more, they spend it quickly on consumer goods and the money goes around, so you employ two kids for every adult position and soon there will be less kid unemployment. I don't take much notice of such stories as the samoans, america is noted for exporting its unemployment

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Originally Posted by paraclete

You just don't get it, the way to have a bouyant economy is to pay the kids more, they spend it quickly on consumer goods and the money goes around, so you employ two kids for every adult position and soon there will be less kid unemployment. I don't take much notice of such stories as the samoans, america is noted for exporting its unemployment

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I don't get it? Have you ever worked with an American teenager? I can't someone more than what they produce or I go out of business.

What's wrong with american teenager workers?

nothing... but if you pay them double what the job is worth then there are less job opportunities for them . Businesses do calculate into the equation the cost of labor.

Sorry, I was asking speech.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I don't get it? Have you ever worked with an American teenager? I can't someone more than what they produce or I go out of business.

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Are you saying they are worth what you pay them? Or that they aren't even worth what you pay them?

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Originally Posted by paraclete

are you saying they are worth what you pay them? or that they arn't even worth what you pay them?

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What I'm saying is wages are connected to productivity. If I can pay an experienced guy $12.00 an hour who is more productive than two 16 year olds at $7.25 an hour, which would I choose?

If the wages in Thailand are 10 times less than what I'm mandated to pay, how am I going to compete and keep the same workforce? I'm going to be forced to move production where I can compete or automate... or go out of business.

Now, here's the question, if minimum wages are the answer to poverty, Haiti or Zimbabwe should be able to mandate a living wage and all will be well, right?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Now, here's the question, if minimum wages are the answer to poverty, Haiti or Zimbabwe should be able to mandate a living wage and all will be well, right?

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Let's not go from the sublime to the ridiculous, you know I am speaking of developed economies. Minimum wages are an answer to poverty in a developed country and we know industries will move off shore in search of low labour cost anyway, but if that were the only part of the equation then Haiti and Zimbabwe would be prosperous. The reality is a developed economy shouldn't be making labour intensive goods, it should concentrate on industries requiring a high level of skill in line with the education of its population.

Minimul wages distort the job market and lead to the employment abuses we have in this country regarding illegal immigration, and employers looking to exploit illegal workers.

No difference Clete, Democrats see the minimum wage as an anti-poverty tool. Chicken of the Sea moving to an automated facility in Georgia resulted in a gain of 200 jobs there, and a loss of 2000 jobs in Samoa. How'd that work out as an anti-poverty tool?

How do republicans see the minimum wage?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

No difference Clete, Democrats see the minimum wage as an anti-poverty tool. Chicken of the Sea moving to an automated facility in Georgia resulted in a gain of 200 jobs there, and a loss of 2000 jobs in Samoa. How'd that work out as an anti-poverty tool?

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Now doubt it did something for the poverty in Georgia, but the reality is that such a move would have had years of planning and had nothing to do with a minimum wage, so using it as an argument against minimum wages is spirious. American companies routinely move the base of operations as a tactic against unionisation and labour costs

Clete, the increase was passed in 2007. Until then, Samoa was exempted. They've had 3 years to make this move, it wasn't planned, it was forced.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Clete, the increase was passed in 2007. Until then, Samoa was exempted. They've had 3 years to make this move, it wasn't planned, it was forced.

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You say they closed in Samoa because of minimum wages then you say Samoa was exempted. Poor argument here, they closed because they planned to close, could be other factors like availability of fish, although how many fish are there in Georgia?

They sold the cannery to a former partner so we will put this one down to a lot of political manoevering

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Originally Posted by paraclete

You say they closed in Samoa because of minimum wages then you say Samoa was exempted. Poor argument here, they closed because they planned to close, could be other factors like availability of fish, although how many fish are there in Georgia?

they sold the cannery to a former partner so we will put this one down to a lot of political manoevering

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Reread the post Clete, Samoa was exempted UNTIL 2007 when Democrats insisted the minimum wage apply to Samoa. Chicken of the Sea announced they were building a new plant in Georgia and closing the Samoan plant in May, 2009.

TriMarine did just acquire the COS plant, but do you think they're going to hire 2,000 people? I don't think so. You can argue this was political maneuvering all you want, the result is exactly what I stated - people are out of work because of the minimum wage.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Reread the post Clete, Samoa was exempted UNTIL 2007 when Democrats insisted the minimum wage apply to Samoa. Chicken of the Sea announced they were building a new plant in Georgia and closing the Samoan plant in May, 2009.

TriMarine did just acquire the COS plant, but do you think they're going to hire 2,000 people? I don't think so. You can argue this was political maneuvering all you want, the result is exactly what I stated - people are out of work because of the minimum wage.

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Obama recently exempted Samoa from the wage increase so Chicken of the Sea jumped because it suited them, including some incentives from Georgia so it is all just business. Look, it's sad that an economy like Samoa has to take a set back but they had interests in raising the standards of their people. There are disadvantages to being under american administration. These things have impacts, but if Trimarine sees it as an opportunity it can't all be bad. Realise that those 2000 workers were replaced by a more efficient plant, it happens everyday somewhere, and Trimarine will have the opportunity to restructure, it's business. Not fair, but business

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Obama recently exempted Samoa from the wage increase so Chicken of the Sea jumped because it suited them,

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Edit: Yes sir, I knew this. If the minimum wage was such a wonderful anti-poverty tool, why did the White House cave?

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"We said this increase would be harmful in 2007, and the Democrats did it anyway," said Rep. Patrick T. McHenry, North Carolina Republican. "It proves our point that the federal government setting wage rates is destructive to job creation, whether it's in American Samoa or western North Carolina."

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Keep spinning it however you want, my point remains solid as a rock.