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J_9: The statements you are saying are profound. I agree with them. I also see almost nothing when I look in your city with Google maps. Wow!
I do believe that THC has value in the medical community, but not that other stuff that you speak of. The government got rid of the major ingredients of meth by restricting pseudephedrine. I haven't seen any heroin arrests here at all in the paper. It doesn't mean that there aren't any.
Right on!Quote:
Originally Posted by spitvenom
I think you're too far into the forest (bless you for it) to see anything but trees. I have been there. In Navy hospitals where the heaviest drug cases on the planet come in.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
I doubt that any increase will be more than the closet users coming out, and I predict that those will be the cases never seen in the ER. I would also venture to guess that with regulation, quality control will go up and ER visits will go down. Case in point - Blackpot psychosis is almost forgotten... for those unaware, blackpot psychosis is caused by moonshine being distilled through lead tubes such as car radiators.
I have always been of the opinion that all the "gateway drug" myths were true because of proximity. The pot dealer is treated the same as the heroin pusher by the law so they move in the same strata of society, competing for customers, so the pot smokers are offered the heroin or acid or coke, and, since they're all illegal, what the hey...
Tom, yes I am a recreational drug advocate. I have been my entire adult life. As for the carcinogens in marijuana smoke, note the third item in this article. It has excellent references:
Myths and Facts About Marijuana
I understand that tobacco is also harmful and as you see ;more and greater restrictions are being placed about it's usage. It is so embedded in our culture that it's a tougher nut to crack. The additional chemicals produced by marijuana smoke are undeniable regardless if they are less or more harmful that cigarette smoke. The fact is that NO drug having so many hamful chemicals present would and could never meet perscription approval standards.
My point about recreational drugs is that we should at least be honest about the intent here. The lame duck NJ legislature and Governor call this legalizing "medicinal " marijuana... and although they make an attempt to place restrictions on the recreational aspects of their decision the truth is that the intent is to put the 'camels nose in the tent' for the eventual leglization for all purposes.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Or, it COULD be that big pharma wouldn't get it's piece of the pie, cause EVERYBODY could grow their own...
I wonder if big money has anything to do with it... Nahhh...
excon
PS> By the way, what disease's have those "harmful" chemicals caused? How many people have died as a result of ingesting them?? Really. If I'm killing myself, and you know something I don't, spill it, please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepItSimpleStupid
Nothing to do with this discussion BUT I find this rather surprising - or shocking. You actually googled the City and area where J9 lives, based on information I would guess/believe she posted?
I find that a little bit scary - honestly, I do. I've certainly been threatened on AMHD (and in real life due to my job which is why I have 2 big dogs and a handgun) but still - did I ever think anyone would take the time to look me up?
I hope no one else reads this and thinks it's a good idea - I've never googled anyone on AMHD (or looked anywhere else) and I have the ability to do so. I sort of thought it was sort of a respect issue.
Maybe the post and my answer should be pulled before someone gets hurt.
I spent 3 months living in a homeless shelter and eating in soup kitchens. I was in close quarters, sometimes sharing a room, with addicts and alcoholics and people with mental issues and what are basically societies cast offs. I saw first hand what drugs, and drug withdraw, can do to people.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
I have no problem with pot. Used in moderation, or medically, it has more benefits than adverse side effects. It's only when it's used in excess that problems arise. Then again, the same can be said for cough syrup.
I roomed with a woman who seemed to be coming down from a meth high. She didn't sleep the first night, and was up making a bunch of noise at about 4am. The entire time she was there, 1-2 weeks, she would go off on the most bizarre, and sometimes frightening, tangents. She would talk to seemingly no one, or suddenly get up in the middle of a conversation, or start acting really nervous for no apparent reason, or just get angry at nothing.
There was a guy there who got into a lot of trouble because of drugs. He was on I have no idea what when he ended up locked in the bathroom because the handle fell off. Instead of stomping on the floor or yelling, he jumped out a second story window. He ended up kicked out because he got up at 1am one day, went into the bathroom, huffed gasoline, and started yelling and swearing loudly enough to be heard clearly through out the entire building.
I've seen what drugs can do to people. There are some drugs that just should not be available to ANYONE, especially not legally. Many drugs NEED to be regulated, some NEED to be illegal. Pot just needs to be regulated, like antidepressants.
I'll admit, I googled unknown's island. Mostly because I'd never heard of it before and had no idea where it was, in comparison to the rest of the world, and was curious. I didn't go as far as trying to find his house, though, just the island as a whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
Hheath, I'm glad you chimed in here. You said what I have been trying to say all along. There was a time when LSD was legal with a prescription.Quote:
Originally Posted by hheath541
I agree that there are drugs that should be regulated, but not all of them.
Ex here are some inconvenient facts for you .
How does marijuana affect the lungs?
Scientists believe that marijuana can be especially harmful to the lungs because users often inhale the unfiltered smoke deeply and hold it in their lungs as long as possible. Therefore, the smoke is in contact with lung tissues for long periods, which irritates the lungs and damages the way they work. Marijuana smoke contains some of the same ingredients in tobacco smoke that can cause emphysema and cancer. In addition, many marijuana users also smoke cigarettes; the combined effects of smoking these two substances creates an increased health risk. Can marijuana cause cancer?
Marijuana smoke has been found to contain more cancer-causing agents than is found in tobacco smoke. Examination of human lung tissue that had been exposed to marijuana smoke over a long period of time in a laboratory showed cellular changes called metaplasia that are considered precancerous. In laboratory test, the tars from marijuana smoke have produced tumors when applied to animal skin. These studies suggest that it is likely that marijuana may cause cancer if used for a number of years.
Fact Sheet - MARIJUANA
Chemicals in Marijuana Smoke May Harm DNA - US News and World Report
Myth: Smoking marijuana is safer than smoking cigarettes.
Fact: Actually, smoking one marijuana cigarette may be as harmful to your health as five tobacco cigarettes, according to a study by the University of California at Los Angeles. Smoking pot leaves five times as much carbon monoxide increases the risk of heart disease, and tar has been tied to higher cancer risk.
The dangers are heightened by the way marijuana is usually smoked-deeply inhaled and held in the lungs. This causes you to breathe in 36 percent more smoke per puff than you do from a tobacco cigarette, the study said. And you hold post smoke in your lungs about four times longer, increasing the amount of exposure to possible carcinogens.
Second-hand smoke is also a hazard. In a national Institute on Drug Abuse study, five men were exposed to marijuana smoke in an unventilated room. Despite not taking a single puff themselves, they reported feeling high and the traces of the drug were detected in their systems up to five days later.
Now on response #35
I pointed out the different medical organizations in NJ that were opposed to this move by the NJ legislature. Are they all wrong and lying ? Are they part of a scientific coverup ? What happened to your fealty to the scientific profession that you would make such a claim that doctors ,scientists ,and other health professions conspire to hide the truth ?
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Oh, I've heard the drug warrior rants before. I've heard how it's MORE dangerous than cigarettes... But, none of you right wing drug warriors can point to ONE verified death that marijuana caused - NOT ONE.
350,000 people DIE each year from smoking cigarettes. Since pot is MORE dangerous, it would seem that you could point to ONE death - JUST ONE that pot caused!! But, you can't. That's because there aren't any. That's because drug warriors lie. There ain't no other explanation.
excon
Yeah that's right.. most marijuana deaths are labeled accidents.Yes yes I know it is only a contributing role in the accidents involved ;but in many cases it was the major contributing factor . Or are you telling me that people who smoke pot don't drive cars , mechanical equipment ?
In 2002, 120,000 people were admitted to emergency rooms suffering from marijuana-related problems.
Given that THC has a half life and also accumulates in the human body for days you can't tell me that a significant number of users are not driving and operating equipment under the influence.
Cannabis use causes 'hundreds of deaths a year', coroner warns - Telegraph
Does it diminish your immune system;respiratory system;and brain functions ? Most assuredly according to Harvard .(but they aren't to be believed either )
THE MEDICAL DANGERS OF MARIJUANA USE
So if you become ill from other problems the marijuana use is also a contributory factor in the illness.
I just read your link Tom from the telegraph and I started before I was 15 and I am 31 now So I should be hanging myself any day now. According to that article. I should probably get rid of my power tools so I don't drill a hole in my head like the other guy in the article.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
You went from marijuana containing "harmful" chemicals that kill, to driving while high, and THAT'S what kills you.. You didn't miss a beat, either, you didn't blink an eye, and you said it with a straight face...
But, no, I'm not aghast. I KNOW how you operate.
Check out ALL my drug posts... NEVER have I supported operating dangerous machinery while high. To outlaw a substance because a few people abuse the substance is (1) not working, and (2) it doesn't work, and (3), to think you can is sipping the koolaid.
Nope, you didn't miss a beat, but you should have.
excon
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I'm a liability investigator and I work a TON of motor vehicle cases a year, have for a lot of years.
Where are you getting your statistics concerning MJ and accidents, including the "in many cases" statement?
EX I already addressed the chemicals in pot. It is an irrefutable fact that pot smokers are breathing in many more chemicals than the THC compounds . Many of them are the same ones found in cigarettes.. true . And since they are the same or similar you face the same health risks .
Judy
Does 30-35% of drivers involved in accidenents under the influence of cannabis represent a valid percentage to use the words "in many cases " ?
Men who smoke pot more likely to be in road accidents - USATODAY.comQuote:
Bergeron and colleagues asked 83 men, aged 17 to 49, about their driving history and observed them in driving simulators. Men were chosen for the study because they more often engage in dangerous driving and driving under the influence of marijuana, the researchers explained.
They found that 35% of the participants had been involved in one or more road crashes with material damage in the previous three years. Thirty percent admitted to using marijuana, and 80% of those said they drove under the influence of marijuana at least once in the previous year.
"Our study found that men with self-reported DUIC (driving under the influence of cannabis) tend to be associated with an increased risk of being involved in a car accident," study author Isabelle Richer, a doctoral candidate in the psychology department, said in the news release.
MARIJUANA AND DRIVING: Going to Pot on the HighwayQuote:
The Institute of Medicine's (IOM) medical marijuana study team contends in their federally published report that “For most people, the primary adverse effect of acute marijuana use is diminished psychomotor performance. It is, therefore, inadvisable to operate any vehicle or potentially dangerous equipment while under the influence of marijuana, THC or any cannabinoid drug with comparable effects” (Joy et al, 1999).
In research using a driving simulator, marijuana use before driving has seriously impacted the skills necessary to operate a vehicle safely. Roadside alertness is severely diminished as is concentration, motor coordination and the ability to react quickly. Research subjects found it difficult to judge distance and react appropriately to roadside signals and sounds after smoking marijuana. These effects were still present in the research subjects 24 hours later, demonstrating that the impairment continued long after the “high” was gone (Liguori, Gatto & Robinson, 1998).
Marijuana Raises Risk of Fatal Car Crash
DRUG TRACE FOUND IN 2 CONRAIL WORKERS AFTER FATAL CRASH - NYTimes.com
Ex I understand that you are not an advocate of dui cannabis but I'm telling you the effects on your skills to operate machinery diminishes for a long time after the high has come down because the actives stay in your system for hours and days after usage;and the are accumulative.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Ohhhh, the drug warrior spin... Fortunately, I'm here to save the world.
Couple things. (1) Nobody said smoking pot was GOOD for you. I'm simply saying, that of the myriad compounds found in marijuana, (2) NONE of them kill you.
Yes, some of those compounds MAY also be found in tobacco since it too is an organic material. But, THEY'RE not the compounds that KILL you. Nicotine kills you.
Consequently, cigarettes kill and pot doesn't. That's irrefutable. You cannot, and have not, and never will be able to prove otherwise... Unless, you argue that people who smoke cigarettes slip on the ice and die. Since pot smokers do too, pot kills... That argument truly makes as much sense as the ones you've presented so far.
excon
When you smoke pot you are inhaling tar... 5-7 times as much as in a cigarette ,carbon monoxide among other harmful compounds . If you don't think that kills then suck on a tail pipe.Quote:
Yes, some of those compounds MAY also be found in tobacco since it too is an organic material. But, THEY'RE not the compounds that KILL you. Nicotine kills you.
You have ignored one of my earlier points that the push for medicinal hootch is a canard. Will you at least acknowlege that the real reason and rationale for it is a larger effort to get it legalized and has little to do with health concerns ?
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I repeat. Nobody is saying that pot is GOOD for you. No, I don't think it kills you, because if it did, you'd be able to point it out. You cannot. If it kills, I promise you, it wouldn't be a secret.
You do make a good point, however. I smoke pot. If it kills, I'd like to know. Right now I don't, irrespective of your posts. I'd actually like my government to study it and tell me the truth... Do I think that's going to happen? Bwa, ha ha ha...
I don't disagree with your last statement either. That's why I haven't addressed it. Look, if I had my way, we'd go directly from illegal to legal. But, that ain't the way it works here. We have to do it incrementally - like they're trying to do with health care, as we've discussed.
I'm sure some very sick people find relief in smoking it. It's fine with me if they do. Do I find relief from my ailment when I smoke pot? The pain doesn't go away, but it's easier to deal with. Should I apologize because I also happen to enjoy it too? Are you kidding me? You don't think there's other's out there who ENJOY their meds??
I make no bones about the fact that it should be perfectly legal for me to enjoy getting high on what I want to get high on, as long as you can get high on what YOU want to get high on. For America, that's booze, and I don't drink.
Unless, of course, you can show me that one is more dangerous than the other... (snicker, snicker)
excon
If someone is law-abiding and earning a living, I have no problem with them getting high with whatever they want, but I don't think that people on welfare should be allowed to spend taxpayer's money on drugs, alcohol, smokes and other non-essentials. I work very hard for not much money and I hate to see people who sponge of people like me with big-screen tvs, nicer apartments than mine and driving nicer cars than me.
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