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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

No, it works for YOU. Nearly 70% of your fellow Canadians say that it DOESN'T work for them.

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That's one of the biggest lie you've told so far and you've told many! You're obcessed with telling us we hate our system yet you can find a Canadian on this board that says that... yet just have a look at the health boards here to see americans with issues with your current system.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

The other thing is we can just start letting people take personal responsibility for THEMSELVES and stop asking the government to help them out.

I grew up poor, I was poor in my 20s, and now I'm solidly middle class in my 30s.

If *I* can do it, so can other people. It's just how much they're willing to work and sacrifice to do so---and many are willing to work, but few are willing to sacrifice.

I am not a good person, though. I have absolutely no problem with people living on the streets, starving, whatever. People should go to their FAMILIES first. Then they should go to their CHURCH. The government should be the LAST place they go, and seriously? It SHOULD be shameful to pay with food stamps or medical vouchers or whatever else the government hands out.

Essentially I'm saying this: If the mom in front of me at the grocery store who is paying for food with food stamps, but is wearing all designer clothing gets the SAME benefits I do, without the sacrifice---what the hell is the point of trying to get ahead?

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Kudos to you for working hard. Individuals like you are what makes this vountry great. :)

I think the underlying reason there is healthcare cost inflation is that third party payors [private and gov ] keep the real cost of healthcare insulated from the consumer. * The providers have no incentive to give the consumer a break because they don't get paid by directly by the consumer but by the gov or health insurance. Perversely the incentive is to try to get the most out of the third party payor.

* if the government is going to cover 80% of the cost of a vehicle and you pay 20 %
[ medicare ] why get a Chevy Cobolt [ < 25 k ] when you can get a Cadillac CTS [ $40k ] cheaper than if you actually had to pay 100% of the Chevy?




G&P

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That's one of the biggest lie you've told so far and you've told many! You're obcessed with telling us we hate our system yet you can find a Canadian on this board that says that...yet just have a look at the health boards here to see americans with issues with your current system.

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I have posted the statistics of your own country's polls in the past on this board.

If you have issues with the fact that most of your people think that they wait too long for care, don't get access that they need, and die waiting on lines, then the problem you have is with your own system, not me.

I never lie. I always have evidence to back up my claims. You should have learned that by now.

Elliot

Not to Hi-Jack the thread but why does health care not cover dental? Why do we have dental insurance and then health insurance? It's been proven that bad teeth can lead to heart attacks and heart disease. Seems to me that would be a health problem. Does anyone know why this is?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

and what is Medicare and Medicaid ?

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And S-Chip, and the VA Medical system, and the Native American Medical System, and the Massachusets State Medical System and Oregon State Medical System.

Roughly 40-45% of the US system is already run by government.

And every one of those programs is a FAILURE. They are broke, mismanaged, overspent, inefficient, bloated, disorganized and of poor quality. Access is limited, care is mediocre, and patients are generally dissatisfied with service.

I find several points interesting.

1) People see the USA and consider us the only industrialized country in the world without government health care. But we DO have government health care, and it ain't working. It's a friggin disaster wherever it has been tried.

2) People want to give the same government that has broken all of those health care programs MORE power to do the same thing to the REST of the medical care in this country, and never recognize the idiocy of granting more power to the same people who screwed things up in the first place.

Elliot

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

I have posted the statistics of your own country's polls in the past on this board.

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a) No you haven't
b) you agreed that anyone can find a poll to back up their claim

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

If you have issues with the fact that most of your people think that they wait too long for care, don't get access that they need, and die waiting on lines, then the problem you have is with your own system, not me.

I never lie. I always have evidence to back up my claims.

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See, you lied right there!

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Originally Posted by spitvenom

Not to Hi-Jack the thread but why does health care not cover dental? Why do we have dental insurance and then health insurance? It's been proven that bad teeth can lead to heart attacks and heart disease. Seems to me that would be a health problem. Does anyone know why this is?

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That's actually a good question. One that I'd like to know the answer for.

But there is a good FREE MARKET SOLUTION to that problem... the "build-your-own-policy" concept that I have spoken about before. With it, you could buy only the coverage you need, and not have to pay for the stuff you DON'T want. You could buy the family dental coverage you need for a couple of extra bucks, but drop the unneeded coverage for, say, drug addiction care or massage therapy. So you save a few bucks by not getting what you don't need, but pay only for what you DO need.

In terms of dental care, I will tell you this: The British government-run health care system DOES cover dental, at least in theory... and the Brits are notorious for having some of the worst teeth on Earth. That's because ACCESS to dental care in the UK is about on par with access to any other specialist in the UK... which is to say, poor. Annual dental appointments for checkup and/or cleaning are unheard of. You see a dentist when you have an abssessed cavity or other major dental problem. Cavities are a low-priority item and if you are persistent, you might see a dentist in a few months to get it checked out and filled.

So you can be covered by the system, but if you can't get an appointment with the dentist or orthodontist your teeth are STILL going to suck.

I don't even want to think about what that means in terms of accessibility to OTHER specialty care in the UK.

Elliot

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

See, you lied right there!

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No I didn't.

But as I said before, I ain't going to REPEAT posting links for you anymore. You just ignore them anyway. Which makes YOU the liar, not me.

More good news from government run health care. Not only has the VA told 1200 Vets they have a fatal neurological disease just in time to make use of their new "death book," but the VA is likely to be sued for negligence for other reasons...

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Army veteran Juan Rivera reported to the veterans hospital in Miami for a routine colonoscopy in May 2008. Almost a year later, the 55-year-old father of two learned that the Department of Veterans Affairs had not properly sterilized the equipment used for the procedure.

A test then revealed that he had been infected with HIV. "The VA has issued me a death sentence," Rivera said, according to his attorney.

A problem with sterilization practices at a VA facility in Tennessee was discovered in December, and the department has notified more than 11,000 veterans who had endoscopic procedures at three of its facilities that they may have been exposed to cross-contamination. VA has advised them to return for testing.

As of Aug. 3, eight of those patients have tested positive for HIV, 12 for hepatitis B and 37 for hepatitis C, according to VA.

Rivera, who served in the Army for 13 years and drives a truck for the U.S. Postal Service, filed notice last month of his intent to sue VA. The administrative claim, filed with VA under the Federal Torts Claim Act, says his infection was caused by the department's failure to clean its equipment and to follow proper procedure.

"He's angry, stunned and distraught that the government he served so well for so long has done this to him," said his attorney, Ira Leesfield.

Lawyers predict that Rivera's case marks the beginning of a rush of lawsuits against VA alleging negligence in the handling of medical equipment.

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Yep, I can't wait for the feds to be in charge of my health care.

I get good care from Medicare, BUT

I heard a report just days ago that 42&#37; of doctors are not taking any NEW Medicare patients. What will those forced into Medicare do when they can't find a doctor willing to treat them?

What happens to the rest of us when Medicare finally goes belly up? It will, because that's where it's headed.

Closing with this thought; as long as you are healthy, ANY healthcare system is OK.

What happens to US? What US are you talking about?

I'm PLANNING for stuff like that. I have a SAVINGS account, and a retirement fund, and will probably have COBRA insurance, or some other form of insurance.

I KNOW, and have known since I was like 12, that I cannot count on Social Security, or Medicare/Medicaid when I reach those ages.

So... what happens to the rest of YOU when it goes belly up? I don't care, as long as I don't have to pay for it.

Damn right Synnen. My wife couldn't understand why I put a so much money into my ING account and my IRA and my 401K from work when we got our joint checking account. I had to explain to her that I always heard social security isn't going to be there when we are old so we need to have some type of money. My wife thinks I'm paranoid I think I smart.

But I still think we should give universal health care a shot.

Just curious, has there been any public statement by Dr. Ezekial Emanuel on his position about Teddy Kennedy's treatments ? Was treating him a waste of resources ? Did the President say he should just take a pain pill ?

Hello again, tom:

There was a life saving operation that he COULD have gotten, but his health insurance company turned him down cause of the cost. The adjuster said that the tuition is due on his sons private school, so he's going to use the commission he gets for saving the company millions, on the tuition.

Read about here: Ask Excon

excon

I'm pretty sure his insurer denied him. Went against their profit motive.

Ex - nice site! :) Let me know if you need some development work done.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, tom:

There was a life saving operation that he COULD have gotten, but his health insurance company turned him down cause of the cost. The adjuster said that the tuition is due on his sons private school, so he's going to use the commission he gets for saving the company millions, on the tuition.

Read about here: Ask Excon

excon

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Ex,

Kennedy was on GOVERNMENT health care. OF COURSE he was denied. He was over 65 and in poor health and had a history of alchoholism and a brain tumor (both are pre-existing conditions). What did you expect them to do... give him the services he needed? Where's the cost savings by a government insurance plan in doing that?

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

Ex,

Kennedy was on GOVERNMENT health care.

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Which one did he choose?
Choose and Enroll

NK,

I was just joking with Excon. Excon has no actual evidence that Kennedy was denied for any medical care. In fact, I would argue that with his family's money and his political status, he probably got the same level of care that a US President would get. Excon was on a rant, and I just ranted back at him.

Nevertheless...

Kennedy chose the same plan that ALL members of Congress get. The FEHBP (Federal Employees Health Benefit Plan).

It's actually a great plan. That's why members of Congress have refused to allow themselves to be subject to the plan that they are putting forward for everyone else. They don't want to give up their high-end coverage to take what they are proposing for everyone else.

There have been a number of bills in Congress that have proposed that if Obamacare is passed, that all members of Congress and their staff should have to go to the same government health program that the average person has to deal with. Not surprisingly, Congress members have shot down such bills about 12 times so far.

So here's my question: if the health care plans coming out of both houses of Congress are not good enough for Congress to adopt for themselves, why should regular Americans accept it? To quote one woman at a town hall meeting held by Senator McCain on Monday, "If the plan isn't good enough for Congress, Senator, it isn't good enough for us."

Elliot

Yes he sure had a gold plated plan courtesy of the US taxpayer . I have yet to see a Dem say they would switch to the gvt. Public plan they advance for everyone else.

I can assure you of one thing ;he was not denied any care and if there was a line for treatment he went to the front of it.

And no; Zeke Emanuel did not say that Teddy was once 25 and had his time... He just says that about everyone else.

Hmmmmm he was once 25... Mary Jo was not available for comment.