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Because your view does not give a woman a say so over her own body and Obama's does. He is not dictating what you are to do. He leaves it up to you. It's called a choice.

It is one of those irreconcilable differences. I don't think murder is a choice we can make.

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If it was HER body we're talking about here, I would agree with you... But, it ain't. It's her kid, and he's brainwashed with his mothers garbage.

And in the case of abortion the mother is also making a "choice" if her child lives or dies... at least in this case the child has a chance.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

What's stopping you from being a foster parent or adopting children then?

Caring for my wife and her health problems, helping support my AIDS-stricken daughter, my hands have been full and the expense is more than I can presently manage. And the hoops you have to jump through to adopt are ridiculous. I do what I can in other ways - but I WANT to adopt.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Caring for my wife and her health problems, helping support my AIDS-stricken daughter, my hands have been full and the expense is more than I can presently manage. And the hoops you have to jump through to adopt are ridiculous. I do what I can in other ways - but I WANT to adopt.

Ah, I see. The sentiment is there but you can't do it. Makes it easy to offer when you can't do it.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

If it was HER body we're talking about here, I would agree with you... But, it ain't. It's her kid, and he's brainwashed with his mothers garbage.

excon

I know, a fetus ain't really a kid so it has no rights. Right?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Ah, I see. The sentiment is there but you can't do it. Makes it easy to offer when you can't do it.

Does being a jerk just come natural to you?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I know, a fetus ain't really a kid so it has no rights. Right?

Hello again, Steve:

Not legally, no. But, according to your thinking, the mother shouldn't have rights either.

ME? I'm conflicted. Nowhere in the law am I conflicted, except where the rights of the unborn are irretrievably tied to the rights of the mother.

You see a winner and a loser. I only see two losers.

excon

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Does being a jerk just come natural to you?

More personal attacks eh?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

More personal attacks eh?

What do you mean more? I just asked a question.

You seem to think a pregnant mother deserves compassion but not a husband and father caring for a sick wife and daughter. You do the math.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

Not legally, no. But, according to your thinking, the mother shouldn't have rights either.

ME? I'm conflicted. Nowhere in the law am I conflicted, except where the rights of the unborn are irretrievably tied to the rights of the mother.

You see a winner and a loser. I only see two losers.

excon

Glass half full or half empty, I don't see what precludes the possibility of two winners.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

What do you mean more? I just asked a question.

Wow, in your delusion you think people buy that line.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

You seem to think a pregnant mother deserves compassion but not a husband and father caring for a sick wife and daughter. You do the math.

It matters not what you are doing with your time, the fact is that you offered to do something (take a baby that a mother didn't want) to make yourself and your issue look oh so dignified then come back and say that you can't do it.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Wow, in your delusion you think people buy that line.

Now who's doing the attacking?

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It matters not what you are doing with your time,

It matters to me and my family. I think my wife and daughter would take great exception to that comment (and probably ask the same question I did). I also said I help in other ways which matters very much to some very special children.

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the fact is that you offered to do something (take a baby that a mother didn't want) to make yourself and your issue look oh so dignified then come back and say that you can't do it.

What a load of nonsense. I've seen what abortion has done to my daughter. She, along with myself wish we could hold that child more than you can imagine. I've also seen what abortion has done to close friends. If there's anything here that should be dignified it's the child that didn't have a chance and the would-be mother that regrets forever the decision to abort. There is no turning back from that, NK. It's done, the child is lost, never had a chance, and nothing you or anyone else says will intimidate me into remaining silent.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Glass half full or half empty, I don't see what precludes the possibility of two winners.

Hello again, Steve:

The possibility you hope for only exists in your happy place. In the real world, if a woman is forced to have a baby she doesn't want, they're BOTH victims.

Plus, in MY world, YOU folks, the ones from the happy place world, would IMPRISON women who disagreed with you. That doesn't look too happy in my book. Nahh. I looks real mean.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Plus, in MY world, YOU folks, the ones from the happy place world, would IMPRISON women who disagreed with you. That doesn't look too happy in my book. Nahh. I looks real mean.

excon

Oh ex, you've got to be kidding me. What ever gave you that impression?

Maybe we should coin a new phrase:

"Compassionate murder"

Would that be with or without anesthetic?

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;1760260]It is one TE=tomder5of those irreconcilable differences. I don't think murder is a choice we can make.

And I think to call it murder is ridiculous. I think the reason you use that term is just for shock value to further your cause.
And even if YOU think it is murder, YOU don't have to do it. But you are trying to force your OPINION that it is murder on others when you know nothing about their circumstance.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Oh ex, you've got to be kidding me. What ever gave you that impression?

Hello again, Steve:

If you make abortion illegal and somebody gets one, what are you going to do? Tell them they shouldn't do that?? How are you going to enforce it?? You're going to put 'em in jail, that's what you're going to do. You can't fool me with all your nicey nice talk.

excon

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Caring for my wife and her health problems, helping support my AIDS-stricken daughter, my hands have been full and the expense is more than I can presently manage. And the hoops you have to jump through to adopt are ridiculous. I do what I can in other ways - but I WANT to adopt.

Now, imagine that you are a woman, you are caring for your ailing spouse, you have an AIDS stricken daughter, your hands are full and the expense of another child is more than you could manage. And the hoops any one would have to jump through to adopt your baby were ridiculous. Now, you find yourself pregnant in spite of being careful. (Note, I don't consider, nor do most people consider abortion just another form of birth control. Personal responsibility is always called for in everything). So, you are pregnant. EARLY in the pregnancy. There is no way this bundle of cells can survive outside your body. What is your next step?

Maybe your next step would be to continue with the pregnancy, give the baby up, put it in foster care until you are able to "manage" it, or keep it and give it less care than you should because you have already realized that you have more than you can manage.

What are you going to do?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I know, a fetus ain't really a kid so it has no rights. Right?

You show me a fetus that is a walking, talking, thinking, breathing, individual human being and then we will talk about it's rights.

In the mean time, we have a mother that is a walking, talking, thinking, breathing, individual and technically a bundle of cells multiplying and splitting within her body.

So like you said, it's not "really a kid" as you so delicately put it. It's not "really a kid" or any other kind of person until it is able to survive outside the moms body. That is when the "rights" begin if you want to break it down to rights.

Speech, It sounds like you have certainly had your fair share of heartache. Your wife is ill, your daughter is ill, and you all apparently are regretting her choice to have an abortion. Am I coming to the right conclusion? I'm very sorry that you and your family are suffering.

I don't claim to believe that some people have abortions and regret it. In fact I assume that there is a percentage that do regret it. I also assume that there is a percentage that are thankful and relieved everyday that they were able to have that abortion. This is such a deeply personal choice that it is no ones business other than the mother and father to be.

For a government to dictate that a pregnancy be carried to full term, is the same thing as if a government dictated that every pregnancy end before full term. If you give them power over one, what's to keep them from having power over the other. It simply is not their place. I thought people wanted LESS government involvement in their personal life. Let each one live with their OWN choice, not with the governments choice.

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Originally Posted by cozyk

Now, imagine that you are a woman, you are caring for your ailing spouse, you have an AIDS stricken daughter, your hands are full and the expense of another child is more than you could manage. And the hoops any one would have to jump through to adopt your baby were ridiculous. Now, you find yourself pregnant in spite of being careful. (Note, I don't consider, nor do most people consider abortion just another form of birth control. Personal responsibility is always called for in everything). So, you are pregnant. EARLY in the pregnancy. There is no way this bundle of cells can survive outside your body. What is your next step?

Maybe your next step would be to continue with the pregnancy, give the baby up, put it in foster care until you are able to "manage" it, or keep it and give it less care than you should because you have already realized that you have more than you can manage.

What are you going to do?

Go to a crisis pregnancy center, get all the help I can find, do whatever it took to make sure the child had a chance, because in my world I could never cheapen a child's life down to "a bundle of cells."

Look, it's not that I don't have empathy for the woman in that situation, I do, and I would have done everything I could to help my daughter through her pregnancy if I would have known. If Planned Parenthood and NARAL spent half the energy and resources to encourage and assist that woman as they do on abortions and comprehensive sex education for kids I believe more women would choose life.