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Originally Posted by asking

Perhaps I took too much from the wikiepedia entry, which said his father "forced" him into the military. I thought that spoke volumes about Dahmer's boundaries (or lack of them) and his father too. But I will defer to your superior knowledge on this topic. In any case, it doesn't sound like a very happy or healthy childhood.

I agree with you completely about the current 8 year old.

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You are right Asking, he did force his son into the military, but at that time he'd already been in trouble with the law for molesting a 13 year old boy. His father thought the military would set him on the right path, give him structure.

Sorry, I just find his life story very interesting. He was such a normal person on the outside, everyone was shocked when they found out what he'd done. Even at his trial he always remained calm, confessed to all his crimes, and took his punishment. There was no anger, no rage, yet his crimes where so horrible. I always marvelled at someone who could apper so normal yet be so abnormal.

It's scary to realize how fragile the human mind is. I do believe that he was predisposed to violence, that he just wasn't "wired" right. But, if his childhood had been different, would the outcome have also been different, or would he still have become a serial murderer? It's a scary thought, that everything we do when raising our children, has an effect on them later in life. How do we know we're doing everything right? After all, we are human, we make mistakes. What if we're making a huge mistake and end up with a child like Jeffrey Dahmer?

Maybe I should start my own thread on the topic, I'm hijacking poor excons thread. :(

Sorry Exy, I won't mention any more about Dahmer. My lip is zipped. ;)

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Originally Posted by asking

To me, it's all age related.

I've never been clear why we have all these rules about not trying children as adults, and then make exceptions because they did something creepy.

If you want to punish 17 years olds like 30 year olds, then change the law and make them "adults." You can always make an exception in the direction of leniency if there are mitigating circumstances.

Eight is the age when children first begin to realize they are separate persons, not just an extension of their family, parents. It can be a tumultuous year as kids this age try to establish boundaries. But they are still deeply childish, not like a 12 year old, who can be quite adult if raised well.

But, now I'm curious. Why are you asking these questions?

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I agree with you 100%.

Personally, I don't see why we even have age limits if we aren't going to use them. Why is it the law that someone isn't an adult until 18, but then we try an 8 year old as an adult? You can't have it both ways. Either you're a child in all regards, or an adult in all regards.

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Originally Posted by asking

To me, it's all age related..... But, now I'm curious. Why are you asking these questions?

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Hello again, asking:

I ask, for the same reasons I ask ALL my questions here - to affect change.

I remember a time when we actually DID treat children as children. Then sometime around the 70's when "tough on crime" became the watchword of every politician of every stripe, things started to change. That's when we began our present quest to nowhere...

We, of course, started charging children as adults.. But, that's only part of the story. We started the drug war. We started mandatory sentences. We ended parole. We started tracking "sex offenders". We closed down "club fed". We threw away the idea of rehabilitation and adopted the idea of punishment. Building prisons became a "growth" industry.

I don't know if we're going to change anything... But, I ain't going to stop speaking out about the injustice of it.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, asking:

I ask, for the same reasons I ask ALL my questions here - to affect change.

I remember a time when we actually DID treat children as children. Then sometime around the 70's when "tough on crime" became the watchword of every politician of every stripe, things started to change. That's when we began our present quest to nowhere...

We, of course, started charging children as adults.. But, that's only part of the story. We started the drug war. We started mandatory sentences. We ended parole. We started tracking "sex offenders". We closed down "club fed". We threw away the idea of rehabilitation and adopted the idea of punishment. Building prisons became a "growth" industry.

I dunno if we're gonna change anything.... But, I ain't gonna stop speaking out about the injustice of it.

excon

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Well, I agree with you, so you are preaching to the choir (as it were). Not only are prisons a growth industry, they are now privatized and profit-driven. It's just wrong, wrong, wrong to give anyone a financial incentive to want another human being locked up.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

I agree with you 100%.

Personally, I don't see why we even have age limits if we aren't going to use them. Why is it the law that someone isn't an adult until 18, but then we try an 8 year old as an adult? You can't have it both ways. Either you're a child in all regards, or an adult in all regards.

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Yes! We all seem to be on the same page here...

So why do some people even consider trying children as adults? What is their motivation? What does a prosecutor get out of that?

I have no idea why anyone would want to send a child to an adult prison, or to prison period.

The prosecutors must get something out of it. Maybe they all secretly hate children. I don't know, but I really can't see a good reason to try a child as an adult.

Someone needs to slap these people upside the head. Anyone care to join me, I'm all in!

Speaking of prison being a growth industry look who is being indicted. The Associated Press: Cheney, Gonzales indicted in South Texas county

Setting up another stalinist show trial .it isn't going to happen .

Ever hear of the Supremacy Clause ?

That boy must be stupid!! also cheak out my thing called why is my dog sleeping a lot? I need a answer for that and also cheak out rihanna or leona lewis,madonna or kylie minogue and liverpool or man u? Cheak them thanks bye!!

I finally went and read some of the stories about this case (better late than never) and I'm not convinced he murdered these two men. It sounds like a coerced confession. Also, I'm annoyed by the number of times that reporters say there was "no evidence of abuse." No evidence means nothing. It 's not evidence of no abuse. It's no data. Period.

I think we basically know nothing about what happened and a confession under these circumstances--just saw his father die, alone with police for an hour, etc--means little.

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Originally Posted by Puppylover46236;1383234[B

]that boy must be stupid[/B]!!!!!!!!!!also cheak out my thing called why is my dog sleeping a lot? i need a answer for that and also cheak out rihanna or leona lewis,madonna or kylie minogue and liverpool or man u? cheak them thx bye!!!!!

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That boy is 8 years old!

As for asking us to check out your other posts, that's up to us. I don't think that voting on different singers is as important as an 8 year old boy who has committed murder. That's just my opinion though.

Asking I saw last night that they have no proof the 8 year old shot both of the men. And the person on cnn (I forget who) said the police basically lead him along until they got the answers they wanted.

Spitvenom, that's what it looks like to me too. He started just saying he found them dead, but they pressured him for an hour and kept implying that they would prove he did it by finding his fingerprints on the gun and it would be better for him to confess. Well of course his fingerprints are on the 22;it's his gun. He knows that and if the police are telling him he must have done it and they can prove it with the fingerprints, the poor kid is starting to disconnect from reality. After an hour of bullying by police, what kid wouldn't give in and concede that "maybe" he did it? It's appalling.

That poor kid. Where is this kids mother? Why isn't she in the picture, why, if she's still living, isn't she there to protect him?

Now that I read that I think one of the officers said to the 8 year old something like We know someone who said that they saw you do it. Or something along those lines.

The kid is 8. he's a child. He does not no better

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

That poor kid. Where is this kids mother? Why isn't she in the picture, why, if she's still living, isn't she there to protect him?

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This is what I have been wondering. She apparently lost him in the divorce and is in another state, which is, to me, a bad sign. A dad who takes a kid away from his mother?

And makes the step mother spank him for minor infractions (but doesn't even do it himself). (I can't imagine spanking an 8 year old, let alone someone else's kid.) The boy gets off the school bus at 3:30 and is expected to wander around the neighborhood for 90 minutes until an adult gets home at 5 pm. On a regular basis.

Poor kid.

I think that what he needs more than anything is some love and affection. That poor, poor kid.

Why is it that you need a license to get a dog but any idiot can have a child?

There's something wrong with this world. :(

A few pages ago, a question was asked - if this child is tried as an adult is is age or crime related?

I, personally, think that it is crime related. If, as someone said, he had stolen candy and pop then he would not be tried as an adult. The crime was more of an "adult" crime. That would be my guess.

I question - what would the politicians have to gain by trying this child as an adult? What does politics have to do with THIS case?

I like to know why wasn't the gun locked up for safe keeping?

On CNN they stated that the father brought the son the gun to show him how to shoot but I think that is too young and the gun isn't a pistol it looks like a rifle. Why do a 8 year old need a big gun like that and needs to learn how to shoot?

Do they have laws about this? If not, they should. I can help to think that the father and friend would still be alive if the gun was in a secure place.