OK then explain the permissive moral rot in other terms . Who knows ,maybe it is a flaw in enlightenment thinking .

Hello tom:

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OK then explain the permissive moral rot in other terms .

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Freedom.

Excon

That is not freedom ;what we have is the French revolution waiting for Napoleon to restore order .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

ok then explain the permissive moral rot in other terms . Who knows ,maybe it is a flaw in enlightenment thinking .

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Of course it was a flaw in their thinking. This was always going to happen given enough time. Of course it gave rise to numerous possibilities. Do you think they were promoting some sort of ideological position? Like science it was an ongoing ended experiment.

Tut

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Originally Posted by Tuttyd

Of course it was a flaw in their thinking. This was always going to happen given enough time. Of course it gave rise to numerous possibilities. Do you think they were promoting some sort of ideological position? Like science it was an ongoing ended experiment.

Tut

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That's why Tocqueville praised the role of religion in the American experiment .

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There is no better illustration of the usefulness and naturalness of religion, since the country where its influence is greatest today is also the country that is freest and most enlightened.

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Hello again, tom:

You have YOUR moral rot, and I have MINE.

Let me see. Keeping people who love each other from getting married is a rotten thing to do. Putting people in jail for smoking pot, is really ROTTEN. Closing abortion clinics forcing women to travel long distances, or use a coat hanger, is pretty rotten...

Shall I go on?

excon

No you have your definition of marriage and I have mine... I do not favor imprisoning pot smokers no matter how many time you try to pin that on me. You belly ache about closed abortion clinics and don't say a word about the legal butchery that is more common than you would like to admit given your silence about the Philly clinic .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

that's why Tocqueville praised the role of religion in the American experiment .

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I'm not saying it wasn't useful. I don't really know the details but I would imagine that one role of religion may well have been to act as some type of common bonding element for that early society.

Tut

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, tom:

You have YOUR moral rot, and I have MINE.

Lemme see. Keeping people who love each other from getting married is a rotten thing to do. Putting people in jail for smoking pot, is really ROTTEN. Closing abortion clinics forcing women to travel long distances, or use a coat hanger, is pretty rotten...

Shall I go on?

excon

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Please give us some more of your twisted philosophy, why don't you really say what you mean. Just do it because if fells good and to hell with everyone else

Hello again, clete:

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please give us some more of your twisted philosophy,

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What you call twisted, I call freedom.

But, let me see if I can find something REALLY twisted to satisfy you... Oh, yeah... My government is reading my emails and listening to my phone calls. That's rotten. My government TORTURED people... That's STINKING. My government keeps people imprisoned FOREVER without convicting them of anything... That's as rotten as you get...

Happy now?

Excon

Freedom is also guaranteeing my second amendment rights.

Freedom is letting me exercise all my rights in pursuit of my happiness. :) Keep your guns, but don't expect me to take your word for it that your relatives are as sane as you are.

And don't tell me YOUR traditions and dogma or church is better than mine. Or your freedom is more important than mine, or your morals are better than mine. That's an opinion and you have a right to it in your house, not mine.

That's fair ain't it, even if you don't like it, right? So keep your second amendment rights and let a female keep her right to choose a legal abortion. That's fair too... RIGHT?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Freedom is letting me exercise all my rights in pursuit of my happiness. :) Keep your guns, but don't expect me to take your word for it that your relatives are as sane as you are.

And don't tell me YOUR traditions and dogma or church is better than mine. Or your freedom is more important than mine, or your morals are better than mine. That's an opinion and you have a right to it in your house, not mine.

That's fair ain't it, even if you don't like it, right?

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If what your saying is something you truly believe in then why is it that the following situation exists?

Why is it when you ask Dems about being pro choice they resoundingly state YES! But when asked about the choices other make then they decry their supriority. Things like smoking or gun control or a moment of silence to reflect. If you truly believe as you say then there wouldn't be the big push from your side to limit those around you by force.

Where is the logic in telling a populace that they don't know any better so your going to force them by gun to do your superior bidding?

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so your going to force them by gun to do your superior bidding?

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Examples please, you lost me. I don't care if you smoke, OR what you smoke. Light 'em if you got 'em.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Freedom is letting me exercise all my rights in pursuit of my happiness. :) Keep your guns, but don't expect me to take your word for it that your relatives are as sane as you are.

And don't tell me YOUR traditions and dogma or church is better than mine. Or your freedom is more important than mine, or your morals are better than mine. That's an opinion and you have a right to it in your house, not mine.

That's fair ain't it, even if you don't like it, right? So keep your second amendment rights and let a female keep her right to choose a legal abortion. That's fair too.......................RIGHT?

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Gosnell was performing legal abortions while the state turned their head, so apply that to your don't expect me to trust your relatives logic.

Otherwise got to agree with caldad, choice and freedom to libs tends to be only those choices and freedoms they agree with.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Examples please, you lost me. I don't care if you smoke, OR what you smoke. Light 'em if you got 'em.

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Ok, there are private property rights in this country. As an owner of a private business then within reason it is up to the owner to to set the working conditions. But in most states if you own a bar and those allowed in it are adults only you can't decide on behalf of the business to allow smoking on the premises, How about the auto shop where exhaust is spewed into the air but god forbid someone lights up a legal product. If you disobey you can receive the full force of the law which is the part that has guns pointed at you when they take you away for re-education.

How about when it was made illegal to enjoy a soda the size of your choosing ? If something is put into law and that law is broken they don't just do nothing.

Why is it that if a student were to bring a bible to school to read then it is banned as if it were pornographic material and for disobeying there are heavy reprecussions? Freedon isn't just about what you want. And your happiness has no guarantee. You are allowed to pursue it but by no means are you allowed to force it upon others.

We all have our own paths in life. It is the blending of those paths that give flavor to life. Law of a society need to be in place to allow society to grow. Many today feel that the cause of the greater good is only vested in themselves. That is how the use of the guns is coming into play.

Where is the sreaming going on when restrictive fees are being charged for doing the right thing (after all it goes against the principle of hurting the poor doesn't it?).

Look at Obamacare. It too has been foisted upon us without even reading it and now will be issued under the threat of a gun if not followed to the letter. See a trend here?

Next up, telling you how much money you can save for retirement and/or confiscating it.

As a private property owner that has had that property taken (fairly compensated{?}) under "imminent domain" I can fully agree with many of your points. Unfortunately many knee jerk impulsive reactions by lawmakers, local, state and federal often takes many years to correct and not without a public out cry. Sometimes those efforts fail, no matter the good of the cause or arguments.

I don't know if it's a dem, repub thing, more though as private interests drives most policy, such things tend to drive me NUTS.

Who was it that said they wouldn't confiscate your guns over a little depression - or in this case a little anxiety? NY has been busy confiscating guns since their SAFEact passed. They took thus guy's because ge once took a little anti-anxiety meducation, which apparently is a violation.

Judge orders guns returned to Amherst man mistakenly identified as violating the SAFE Act - Buffalo

Really? Taking a half a Xanax could lead to confiscation in NY? What's next, enjoying a glass of wine?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

As a private property owner that has had that property taken (fairly compensated{?}) under "imminent domain" I can fully agree with many of your points. Unfortunately many knee jerk impulsive reactions by lawmakers, local, state and federal often takes many years to correct and not without a public out cry. Sometimes those efforts fail, no matter the good of the cause or arguments.

I don't know if its a dem, repub thing, more though as private interests drives most policy, such things tend to drive me NUTS.

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It is the narrowmindedness of the politicians we have today as well as the special interests that have infected the system like a virus. It is truly a shame that we have long term politicians because it keeps the fresh ideas from coming forward. I believe the fore fathers never invisioned lifetime politicians. I truly believe they were meant to live under the laws they created rather then be exempt. That alone has created mass animosity for government rule as well as bred a huge mistrust in the way things are handled.

Honest debate should always start by looking at the real problem and not those guided by party lines. Education for the law makers should be paramount to any issue taking place that is up for vote. Emotion drives many issues. But when you react purely on emotion then you subvert the greater good.

Just look at how the gun debate is being handled and the parade of victims being passed in front of our eyes to twist reality. We all need to stand strong and peer through the fog so we may sift the information with clear vision for the future.