Ask Me Help Desk - Gun Control... it didn't take long

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

Back to this race baiting by the left again.....plenty of statistics back the fact they (the blacks) commit crimes of all types in much higher rates of any other ethnic group...or is that YOUR racist side by pretending thats NOT the case?

In fact statistics prove it even around here on a local scale with PG county MD....and DC wheich have been majority plack for some time...also are the areas with the highest crime rates in this area...spread that ring outward to past 60 miles...and Baltimore...another Black majority city with a massive crime problem falls into the fold.

Chicagos crime issues are legendary.....As are those of Camden NJ. Both majority black cities coincidently.

Instead of pointing out the obvious, you might look for other reasons, like the level of disadvantage, or the level of unemployment. I don't doubt you have a problem with drugs and associated crime but Chicago for example had a crime problem long before black people gained the ascendency and you may find if you looked closely that some of these other areas might have too. You might ask who modelled lawlessnes for black people? You also have a high black population in jails. What this demonstrates is the system of law enforcement, etc doesn't work.. You know they say the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same things and expect things to change

Quote:

Originally Posted by paraclete

Your debates are more interesting we don't have the same problems you do in finding solutions, but smoothy just has to be taken on, his attitudes are too far to the right, he sounds like a closet KKK member and don't you find it disturbing he allegedly works for your government

If you'll notice I answer for myself, not Smoothy. See the P.S. on my last post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Good Morning, clete:

**greenie**

excon

I don't know what that means ex but I expect you are saying I'm further left than you are, not so, I actually have some very right wing attitudes about certain things but I'm not as far right as these fellows.

Where I come from a greenie is a tree hugging no hoper who thinks the environment must be preserved at the expense of the community whilst I don't think climate change is actually happening, not in the way it is being sold anyway, taking temperature and CO2 readings next to an active volcano , give me a break, please, but it has nothing to do with this discussion

Clete ,it's the AMHD silly rating system that they have to good sense to not employ on this board.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paraclete

Instead of pointing out the obvious, you might look for other reasons, like the level of disadvantage, or the level of unemployment. I don't doubt you have a problem with drugs and associated crime but Chicago for example had a crime problem long before black people gained the ascendency and you may find if you looked closely that some of these other areas might have too. You might ask who modelled lawlessnes for black people?. You also have a high black population in jails. What this demonstrates is the system of law enforcement, etc doesn't work.. You know they say the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same things and expect things to change

THose are lame excuses... people are responsible for their own action.

Black people are no less capable of civilized behaviour and success than any other group... despite the way so many of them appear to act... because that takes effort and work.. something that the criminal element has an adversion to doing... despite their ethnic background.

You on the other hand like so many other lefties... seem to believe they are inferiour and as such need estra help and assistance because you don't think they can do it on their own.

I on the other hand know they can if they got off their butts and made the effort. That would make you part of the racist element here... not me.

Nice rant smoothy as usual you ignore the obvious, it's a lot easier for a young black guy to go to prison than his white counterpart because the cops hang around the hood instead of the gated communities where most of the dope dealing goes on, have no lawyers, and get heavier sentences.

But like always you never address unequal circumstances and opt for the hardcore racist version of everything. If by a miracle the law was equally applied and enforced the kids in the burbs around the hood would be doing as much time as the kids on the corner unless daddy's lawyer get it reduced, or posts bail.

I bet you thought all the criminals were equal? Naw, I never heard you rail against the ones with lawyers and loot. Just the poor ones of color.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

Nice rant smoothy as usual you ignore the obvious, its a lot easier for a young black guy to go to prison than his white counterpart because the cops hang around the hood instead of the gated communities where most of the dope dealing goes on, have no lawyers, and get heavier sentences.

But like always you never address unequal circumstances and opt for the hardcore racist version of everything. If by a miracle the law was equally applied and enforced the kids in the burbs around the hood would be doing as much time as the kids on the corner unless daddy's lawyer get it reduced, or posts bail.

I bet you thought all the criminals were equal? Naw, I never heard you rail against the ones with lawyers and loot. Just the poor ones of color.

That's pure leftist propaganda and you can't prove otherwise. The lefties are invested in the mentality that they and certain other groups are incapible of getting by much less succeeding without the help of the government.

Its all total BS.

Just like the other favorite lefty rant that someone can't get rich without someone getting poor as a result.

It might work that way in certain lefty neighborhoods like CHicago where crime is the major industry, but not in the real world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

But like always you never address unequal circumstances and opt for the hardcore racist version of everything.

Such as the unequal circumstances created by LBJ when he set up the "War on Poverty" that he told two governors was designed to have blacks "voting Democrat for two hundred years?"

Blacks will vote Democrat. - What Liberals Say

There's your hardcore racism

I read the link but please elaborate on the unequal circumstances of the War On Poverty.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Clete ,it's the AMHD silly rating system that they have to good sense to not employ on this board.

Really Tom never seen it what does it mean?

Poor white people don't get the same benefits... Poor Asians don't either... nor do the poor of any other ethnic group.

So much for equality as far as Liberals are concerned... its handouts for our voter base and screw the rest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

Poor white people don't get the same benefits...Poor Asians don't either....nor do the poor of any other ethnic group.

So much for equality as far as Liberals are concerned....its handouts for our voter base and screw the rest.

Quite a claim now back it up with fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

Quite a claim now back it up with fact.

Why should I bother... you don't.

Another wild claim you cannot backup.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Quite a claim now back it up with fact.

Here is a factoid for you. This is some of the poorest of the poor we have in the United States. And these people have a much different attitude then the ones that figure its owed to them for a lifetime.

Appalachia's War: The poorest of the poor struggle back

Added after post.

http://www.app-pov-proj.org/igive.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

I read the link but please elaborate on the unequal circumstances of the War On Poverty.

The main program of the "War on Poverty," AFDC, encouraged staying in 'unequal circumstances.'

Quote:

Typically, only very poor families composed
Of single mothers and their children qualified
For AFDC. This feature led some to
Argue that the program discouraged marriage
And work. To be eligible for AFDC, a
Family had to include a dependent child who
Was under age 18, was a citizen or permanent
Legal resident, and could be considered
Deprived of parental support—usually
Because no father lived in the home

http://www.futureofchildren.org/futu...s/07_01_01.pdf

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

Another wild claim you cannot backup.

No less than your claim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

Here is a factoid for you. This is some of the poorest of the poor we have in the United States. And these people have a much different attitude then the ones that figure its owed to them for a lifetime.

Appalachia's War: The poorest of the poor struggle back

Added after post.

http://www.app-pov-proj.org/igive.html

And I can back that up because unlike the lefties here whose world perspective is what they are told through a lens of bias... I actually grew up around some of the Appalachia culture and people. As I grew up in the northeastern fringe of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

Appalachia culture and people. As I grew up in the northeastern fringe of it.

The ones I grew up around (NC hills) had illegal stills and drove over roads at night, delivering illegal moonshine and avoiding the "revenuers." And that wasn't the only illegal thing they did.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

The ones I grew up around (NC hills) had illegal stills and drove over roads at night, delivering illegal moonshine and avoiding the "revenuers." And that wasn't the only illegal thing they did.

Didn't know any with stills... but that's not saying there wasn't any. Just nobody admitted to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

Didn't know any with stills...but that's not saying there wasn't any. Just nobody admitted to it.

'Tain't something you talk about. These days you don't talk about how many plants you got growing. Different gro-lights, yes, but not what's under them.

Oh I don't know I have some lovely green plants in my front yard

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

'Tain't something you talk about. These days you don't talk about how many plants you got growing. Different gro-lights, yes, but not what's under them.

True... but then most of the people I know there aren't drinkers... or just aren't quite close enough they would mention it. Mostly both of those two since I don't live in that area any more so I don't see them frequently enough.

Joe Scarborough is apparently fretting over the thought that the IRS scandal might put a kink in the gun control push. It's a good point he raises, though probably for the wrong reason, but the IRS scandal doesn't exactly instill much confidence in trusting the government with private background check info. Missouri twice leaked info to the feds and you do recall media folks publishing permit holder info don't you?

If only libs weren't so naïve in putting their faith in government these scandals just might get us somewhere in scaling back the Leviathan and protecting our rights.

Count Piers Morgan also among those having at least a slight change of heart...

Quote:

“I’ve had some of the pro-gun lobbyists on here, saying to me, ‘Well, the reason we need to be armed is because of tyranny from our own government,’ and I’ve always laughed at them,” Morgan said last night. “But, actually, this is vaguely tyrannical behavior by the American government.”

Guest Penn Jillette agreed with his assessment: “I think that it shows you that how much we can trust the government and just sit back, which is not very much at all.”

I'll take "vaguely tyrannical" out of Morgan, but that "vaguely" part is only going to get worse as government expands Still got your heads in the sand?

P.S. I think you can count any new gun control out of the question. In fact, I bet there's another surge in gun sales. That's the only segment of the economy the left knows how to improve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Count Piers Morgan also among those having at least a slight change of heart...

I'll take "vaguely tyrannical" out of Morgan, but that "vaguely" part is only going to get worse as government expands Still got your heads in the sand?

P.S. I think you can count any new gun control out of the question. In fact, I bet there's another surge in gun sales. That's the only segment of the economy the left knows how to improve.

Sorry but people are slowing down a bit on the gun sales due to government enforced false ammo shortage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdad

Sorry but people are slowing down a bit on the gun sales due to government enforced false ammo shortage.

Reloading supplies are through the roof, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catsmine

Reloading supplies are through the roof, though.

Everything is as far as recreational shooting is. Its insane right now.

Remember how all those buy back programs were going to get guns off the street ? Guns surrendered would be destroyed ? Well not quite .

St. Charles ;a suburb of Chi town has decided to put tsome of those guns back on the market by selling them to dealers . I wonder what the mark up is ?
St. Charles IL police selling buyback guns to licensed dealers - UPI.com

Again ;the is a suburb of Chi town ;a town that had 8 people shot on Thursday alone .

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

remember how all those buy back programs were going to get guns off the street ? Guns surrendered would be destroyed ? Well not quite .

St. Charles ;a suburb of Chi town has decided to put tsome of those guns back on the market by selling them to dealers . I wonder what the mark up is ?
St. Charles IL police selling buyback guns to licensed dealers - UPI.com

Again ;the is a suburb of Chi town ;a town that had 8 people shot on Thursday alone .

Lets make the place a little safer while we turn a profit at it. This just shows how govenments lie and talk through both sides of their mouth. You always have to be vigilant when the government is involved. I wonder if anyone is going to file suit for missuse of government funds?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

remember how all those buy back programs were going to get guns off the street ? Guns surrendered would be destroyed ? Well not quite .

St. Charles ;a suburb of Chi town has decided to put tsome of those guns back on the market by selling them to dealers . I wonder what the mark up is ?
St. Charles IL police selling buyback guns to licensed dealers - UPI.com

Again ;the is a suburb of Chi town ;a town that had 8 people shot on Thursday alone .

Reminds me of another program from some Chicago politicians - Fast & Furious.

I have to wonder if all of the proper paperwork was filled out for the guns tat were purchases from the public, then for the sale of the guns back to dealers. If any one of those guns had been used in a crime and the information not collected about the gun at the time it was purchased from the "original owner", puts whomever buys that gun from a dealer "in the sights" if the gun somehow turns up as "hot" from a crime. It was in Chicago. I seriously doubt any of this was done and if it was , it was probably at a minimum.

Here is more twists into the tale of gun control from across the pond.

Britain wants its guns back - The Commentator

But statistics from the United States show that guns are used by citizens to defend themselves around eighty times more often than they are used to take a life. A recent study published in the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy concluded that there is a negative correlation between gun ownership and violent crime in countries internationally, that is, “where firearms are most dense violent crime rates are lowest, and where guns are least dense violent crime rates are highest."

Another supporting article:

Send A Gun To Defend A British Home ... Pistols - Rifles - Revolvers - Shotguns - Binoculars

Hello again,

When law and order breaks down, if people can't depend on the authorities to keep them safe, they're going to want to do it themselves.

If that's where we find ourselves, is it better to arm ourselves, or fix what's wrong?

excon

I would say you don't solve the problem by arming yourselves, you need to fix the problem, basically it is greed and selfishness, the unholy trinity, self first, self second and if there is any thing left self again

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

When law and order breaks down, if people can't depend on the authorities to keep them safe, they're gonna want to do it themselves.

If that's where we find ourselves, is it better to arm ourselves, or fix what's wrong?

excon

The problem resides in fixing what is wrong. Too many opinions in the pot and most just believe in making more laws to control the population. To me its not the answer. Law enforcement has become increasingly intrusive in peoples lives. Its time for them to back away and get a grip on the big picture.

I agree that we must be able to defend ourselves at any time against anyone. We are seeing police being turned into paramilitary forces. Look at the Boston Bombing. Was it really necessary to have 2000 heavily armed, military style police in that one 4 block area? They ended up shooting at the kid in the boat over 100 times and still missed him for the most part. Police are becoming extremely intrusive even in small towns all over America. We are not criminals but law enforcement treats everyone as if they are suspect of something wrong. The term Domestic Terrorism is being used more and more but just who are these Domestic Terrorists? Is the Government usurping the Constitution for more control over the people or is it the People arming themselves against the government that is trying to control them? If the Military and Police band together in a move against the Citizens of this country, they have done the one thing that their oath to duty stands for... Upholding the Laws and Constitution of the country. If the Citizens take up arms against these Constitutional violators . Would those citizens be considered enemies of the state? How many of the military will "defect" and join forces with the citizens? WE have a system designed that is supposed to avoid any of these scenarios but it is increasing becoming apparent that there are forces that do not want the citizens to have those
Powers. And luckily the citizens are far better armed than the military and are out numbered by 50+ to 1.

The problem is the US against THEM mentality that pervades to keep us divided. The ruling party is always defending against them, to keep power. This is a man made divide that keeps compromise for solutions to the real problems off the table.

I mean we buy guns not to defend our home against a common enemy, criminals and crazies, but against our own duly elected officials. That's crazy since its our government. Or did they steal that too when they stole all the money?

Hello Handy:

Quote:

And luckily the citizens are far better armed than the military and are out numbered by 50+ to 1.

That's just silly. Just how many Apache helicopters or F-16's have you got stashed? Furthermore, it's popular spin on the right to believe that the military would abandon their post and join in your right wing revolution... While I don't doubt that a few of them would, MOST of them will, of course, honor their oath, and will fight for the United States of America against its enemies, domestic or foreign.

Your rebellion would be crushed in the first 24 hours. What would possibly possess people to think they can defeat the 82nd Airborne?

Excon

That's what happens in third world countries that have rich dictators and a bunch of poor people. That's what you guys want to happen to bring back the glory days of the Revolution and Civil War.

You guys who want a shooting war with your own countrymen are few, and those of us that vote are many. You guys are loud though, but you need more than noise to overthrow the government. Especially when those 360 million guns ain't all on your side.