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Thank you slaves for building the best nation on Earth for FREE, with labor, blood, sweat, and great sacrifice through cruelty, and all kinds of atrocities.

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The north beat the south largely because of the North's vastly superior industrial base that was built by free men. And certainly everything since 1865 has been built through private enterprise with no slavery. You are taking a legitimate point and exaggerating it to the point of silliness.

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You aren't worried about that debt, so why the hell should my grandkids worry about paying a debt they didn't make?

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Yeah. Right. The only person on this board to bring it up over the past months is not worried about it. Sure. That makes a lot of sense. What makes you think I'm not worried about it anyway?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

The north beat the south largely because of the North's vastly superior industrial base that was built by free men.

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And where did those free (white) men in the North get the raw materials -- especially the cotton, tobacco, and sugar cane -- to build that industrial base?

You don't build industry with cotton, tobacco, and sugar cane. Most of the South's cotton was sent to textile mills in Britain.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You don't build industry with cotton, tobacco, and sugar cane. Most of the South's cotton was sent to textile mills in Britain.

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Nope. It did go there too but New England especially benefited from the plantation cotton for their textile mills. I learned that in 4th grade!

Fair enough, but to say that the industrial north was built by the labor of slaves is simply not correct. Not even close. Free men, coal and iron built the industrial north. That's not to discount what slaves produced. It was considerable, but to say that our country was built by slave labor is way over the top.

The industrial north was built on generations of cheap labor, blood, sweat, and sacrifice, under some very grueling conditions. Where do you thing immigrants and runaway slave and later freed slaves went to? You should read up about the history of industrialization before unions. You should also brush up on what happens to towns built around those industries that no longer exists.

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The industrial north was built on generations of cheap labor, blood, sweat, and sacrifice, under some very grueling conditions.

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That is partially true, but it is not what you said in your original statement about slavery. You are, at least, becoming more reasonable.

What was unreasonable about my previous point?

What was unreasonable? This. "Thank you slaves for building the best nation on Earth for FREE."

It way overstates the case. Slave labor contributed, but did not do all, or even most, of the building.

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And without (impatient) consumers wearing masks or doing any social distancing, COVID-19 has come surging back!

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what is being called a surge is pockets of increased cases ;and most of the surge is because testing has increased including when people go back to work ,their employers are insisting that they ae negative before coming back to work . These people were already infected before the restrictions were lifted . As in the beginning ;the only issue is preventing the overwhelming of the hospitals . We know so much more now than we did in March. WE know wearing masks ,sanitizing ,washing hands and social distancing helps prevent the spread . We know it is rarely fatal for people younger than 60 and in many younger people ;they don't even show symptoms when infected .

I know Trump opponents want the economy to continue to tank so they are rooting for a new spike . Sandinista Bill did NOTHING about the riots and demonstrations . In fact he encouraged them and blamed cops for excesses . But now he is restraining from opening up NYC because he wants to know if the demonstrations caused an increase in c-19 cases . He is a disingenuous POS . They were ready to arrest a handful of business owners who demonstrated to allow their establishments to open . il Duce Cuomo lectured us for weeks and threatened to shut down the state again . Then they allowed this to go on in Brooklyn .
https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/6W...2fb_o_U_v2.jpg

So I'm guessing that is not a pic of a Trump rally?

The alarming part is the spikes that lead to hospitalizations and while your city seems to have gone through the worst Tom, other cities are just getting started so I don't think we have fully weathered the first wave as yet. I don't pretend to know how this will affect businesses though since we really haven't solved anything yet or how small businesses can keep replacing sick workers and customers who don't want to be sick of all ages, or open up to shutdown again.

We seem to have 50 different ways of dealing with how to reopen safely, and stay open enough to bank some profits. Did you see those long lines of people in Kentucky waiting for unemployment checks from last month or beyond?

https://news.yahoo.com/hundreds-line...115701994.html

that's because the Federal Government hastily voted unemployment benefits with no thought beyond it felt good to do something . I know people here who have still not received their 1st check ,and others who could go back to work today but are choosing to stay out until their benefits are exhausted . What state has their hospitals overwhelmed ? NY came close but even here most of the resources were adequate except for pockets in Brooklyn ,Queens etc . I cant say it was over hyped because we did not know any better . But now we have a better handle on it . I recommend to everyone to follow the guidelines . It is not a fun illness for geezers like me to deal with . But for perspective ,1968 over 100,000 Americans died in the pandemic and no one knew we were in one .

Just can't imagine a blue collar low paid worker risking his life and health to help your precious economy can you, Tom? We have learned a lot the last few months, but there is much more to learn.

I think its a cop out and false to say those folks told to not work in the first place, rather get free money because they haven't gotten it yet. Maybe the business cycle can operate that way but humans cannot. Hope you have learned that while you expect everybody to ignore those risks, and do as the boss tells them when he tells them.

The functions and structures of government and society are broken folks, and as long as we ignore that there will be no return to normal. LOL, presumptuous of you to think we ignore the virus and try.

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Just can't imagine a blue collar low paid worker risking his life and health to help your precious economy can you, Tom?

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I work in a plant full of them that show up every day . I respect them more than the P*SSY office workers who are tele-working from their beach homes .(the asterisk is because the system tried to censor my comment )

Pretty obvious the blue collar workers have suffered greatly from the virus and stalled economy as usual like every other business downturn they have no control over. They can't afford to be sick.

This is what Hydroxychloroquine does to you, the man is befuddled

Check your link Clete.

Yes it is a circular argument

the known sie effects are;

• Blistering, peeling, loosening of the skin
• blurred vision or other vision changes
• chest discomfort, pain, or tightness
• cough or hoarseness
• dark urine
• decreased urination
• defective color vision
• diarrhea
• difficulty breathing
• difficulty seeing at night
• dizziness or fainting
• fast, pounding, uneven heartbeat
• feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
• feeling that others can hear your thoughts
• feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
• fever with or without chills
• general feeling of tiredness or weakness
• headache
• inability to move the eyes
• increased blinking or spasms of the eyelid
• joint or muscle pain
• large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, and sex organs
• loss of hearing
• lower back or side pain
• noisy breathing
• painful or difficult urination
• red irritated eyes
• red skin lesions, often with a purple center
• severe mood or mental changes
• sore throat sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
• sticking out of the tongue
• stomach pain
• swelling of the feet or lower legs
• swollen or painful glands
• trouble with breathing, speaking, or swallowing
• uncontrolled twisting movements of the neck, trunk, arms, or legs
• unusual behavior
• unusual bleeding or bruising
• unusual facial expressions
• unusual tiredness or weakness
• yellow eyes or skin

We've already pulled this drug as a viable emergency treatment Clete and have replaced it with a long used steroid with better promise so the speculation is over as far as I'm concerned.