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Hello again, tom:
As I suspected, it's NOT death panels... It's NOT mandates.. It's NOT ANY of that stuff you say it is.. It's that you think it'll work. And, it will.Quote:
the entitlement state will collapse from the weight of the obligations shortly
Excon
So is there anything wrong with Obamacare other than it isn't single payer?
How do you read into my comment that I think it will work ? I was addressing NK's irrelevant observation specifically .Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
How is it irrelevant to show that something which you deride seems to be the norm elsewhere? Is it because you don't want to hear that?Quote:
NK's irrelevant observation
Of course they don't want to hear it NK, you know they are never wrong, well almost never. It's the not made here syndrome, if they had thought of it they would have been early adoptersQuote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Hello again, Steve:Not being single payer isn't something wrong with Obamacare. It's the mistake congress made. So, I'm not going to criticize it because it doesn't fit my druthers.Quote:
So is there anything wrong with Obamacare other than it isn't single payer?
Let me take an honest look at it. Of course, if I'm going to be honest, I won't talk about death panels.. I won't talk about train wrecks.. I won't talk about bankrupting the nation. That's because NONE of those things are true.
Is there anything wrong with giving poor people health coverage for the first time in their lives? No.
Is there anything wrong with stopping insurance companies from denying coverage because of a pre-existing condition? No.
Is there anything wrong with children being allowed to stay on their parents health plan until they're 26? No.
Is there anything wrong with requiring insurance companies to spend 80% of their income on health care? No.
Is there anything wrong with requiring EVERYBODY to buy health insurance? No.
Is there anything wrong with wealthy and middle class persons insurance premium going up? No.
Is there anything wrong with people NOT going bankrupt because of medical bills? No.
Am I missing anything?
Excon
There is something wrong when one group gets a free ride via the virtual mugging of another group.
Yeah, you forgot something. Insurance companies cannot cap your coverage and dump you after spending a set amount.
No co pays for preventive maintenance doctor visits, routine and regular check ups to the peanut gallery.
I agree and that's what the uninsured are getting off the dime of the tax payer. You righty hypocrites are always hollering about personal responsibility, now we have it. Still you holler.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/si...-signs-024.gif
And the fact remains... those of us who actually have jobs we worked hard to get are going to have to pay even more for our insurance to cover the lazy and the financially irresponsible... while all of the other programs they were previously leaching off still remain and continue to cost us money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Yes, you're missing the answer to my question.
Hello again, Steve:
Well, let's rectify that.Quote:
Yes, you're missing the answer to my question.
Is there anything wrong with Obamacare, you asked...
Yes.
Excon
No ;it's just that I don't care what the rest of the world does. They are bankrupting their countries faster than we are ;but we are on the same track to the same result.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Here is a leader that gets it .
Dutch king declares end of the welfare state | euronews, world newsQuote:
The King of the Netherlands has informed his country that their welfare state is finished.
King Willem-Alexander, alongside his wife, Queen Maxima, told the Dutch people that they must create their own social and financial safety nets, and that looking to the state for help was a thing of the 20th century.
Care to expand on that? I'm giving you your shot to be honest about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, Steve:
I thought I was. Besides, you told me I couldn't list what it wasn't. If I wasn't under such restrictions, I'd complain that it wasn't Medicare for all.Quote:
Care to expand on that? I'm giving you your shot to be honest about it.
BECAUSE it isn't Medicare for all, I don't like all the kickbacks, and deals they made with all the players to get them to go along. But, making law is like making sausage.. It's pretty ugly.
Since Medicare for all could be written on one page, I don't like that the sausage making took up 1200 pages.
I DON'T like that, as a member of the middle class, MY costs will go up to pay for it... But, I'm MORE than willing to do it for the reasons above. I think THIS is major difference between us.
Now, if there really ARE death panels, then it should be sh!tcanned. If it's going to bankrupt the nation, it should be discarded. If it's a trainwreck, then it should be repealed.. But, I don't BELIEVE any of that.
Of course, it's big, comprehensive, and some parts may not work like the authors thought it would, and I've spoken about tweaking it. But, in the main, it looks like it's going to DO the job it was intended to do.
Excon
That's a pretty rosy prediction. How many of those youngun's are going to bypass buying a policy and just fork over the $95 penalty?
That's what they are afraid of. It will work and work well and make them look like loud mouth idiots.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
LOL, can you imagine winning the house and senate in 2014, and the presidency in 2016, and can't bullsh1t the people about repealing Medicare, Social Security, OR Obama Care? Well repeal is their whole campaign. What else can Cruz run on?
Hello again, Steve:
I don't know. I'm not an actuary. But, actuary's who work for insurance companies think they'll be enough, and they think they'll be profitable too. Otherwise, they wouldn't be offering 'em for sale.Quote:
How many of those youngun's are going to bypass buying a policy and just fork over the $95 penalty?
But, that IS the question. When I was a young'un, I was covered by my employer, and when I wasn't working, I WORRIED a lot about what could happen to me. If CHEAP insurance would have been available to me during those times, I wouda bought it. Now, I'm a guy who's driven without car insurance when I couldn't afford it. But, I had no assets and nothing to lose, and car insurance didn't protect ME anyway.. It protected the OTHER guy.
But, if I didn't have health insurance, I'M the only loser.
Speaking about losing because you don't have health insurance, what do you think about the ads running by right wingers, trying to tell YOUNG people NOT to get it?? I think it's despicable, cruel, and par for the course.
Excon
I have no idea what you're referring to.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
I know members of Congress and the Senate are telling staffers not to sign on because an exemption is pending .
And there's your first clue that there is something fishy with Obamacare, the people that wrote it don't want any part of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Hello again, Steve:
So, you bought the whole GOVERNMENT takeover of health care, crap, huh? Bummer for you. Look. This is simple.. Obamacare isn't for people who have employer provided health insurance. It's for people who DON'T have insurance.. The Senate staff are ALL employed and HAVE excellent government provided health care... They don't need Obamacare, and won't ever sign up for Obamacare...
No wonder you don't like it. You have no idea what it IS.
excon
Wrong . Congress and staffers are required by the law to sign onto the exchanges. The emperor decreed that since staffers were previously covered by a congressional plan ,they will continue to receive the employer contribution part of their previous plan to help them buy into the exchanges.It's an exemption decreed by the executive that is not in the law. Sen Vitter has drafted legislation to get rid of the exemption.
Edit... technically what they are getting is in effect a subsidy and not an exemption. But some members of Congress want Congress and their staffers to be exempt from the law.
Want to get rid of Obamacare... put in a bill that clearly states there will be no subsidies. wavers or exemptions for anyone or any group... and EVERYONE from the White house on down WILL have it...
See how quck the Dems vote to get rid of it them so they won't have to explain why they are special and above what they are inflicting on everyone else.
Medicare for everyone!Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Huh? How did you get the "whole government takeover" thing from me saying the people that wrote don't want any part of it? I know what it is, don't condescend to me or speak for me about it. The only real point I've been making for months other than those on the contraceptive mandate is the law is a disaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
I haven't had to say a thing, all I've been doing in essence is posting the news but regardless of the source you guys blow it all off as just needing a few tweaks and that soon we'll all be holding hands and singing Kum-Ba-Ya over how wonderful it is. Wrong, we've been lied to repeatedly and you guys don't give a crap about the monumental tax increases that weren't t really tax increases, the forced change in policies we were supposed to be able to keep, fewer options on care and how it's been shown repeatedly it's made costs rise dramatically.
But I know, you're a much smarter business guy than all these other people, or they're all just liars. But to totally trash the system we had to TRY and cover the 15% who didn't have insurance was OVERKILL, a complex, costly mess and come Tuesday, still won't be ready. Thousands and thousands of workers who once had full time jobs won't, who once had great, affordable employer sponsored coverage will be tossed to the exchanges and you don't bat an eye. It could have been done much better, but you aren't interested in that, you have an agenda, and to hell with the consequences.Quote:
“Well the biggest thing I’ve learned about the Affordable Care Act is it’s certainly not affordable,” said Steve Staub, owner of Staub Manufacturing who make laser cut parts for a variety of industries from food vendors to the auto industry.
Staub says due to the Affordable Care Act, he may have to make precision cuts to the health plan he provides for his 25 employees.
He said he currently pays 80 percent of his employees health care costs but his rates have already shot-up nearly 20 percent. “When I called the company to ask why they said it’s strictly to get ready for Obamacare,” Staub replied.
Dave Freimuth of JBK Manufacturing, an aerospace contractor on Troy Street is in a similar position with his small business that employs 38 people.
His company provides nearly 90 percent of their employees health care costs. He said he’s glad the Affordable Care Act will help the uninsured, but at what cost?
“Anytime the government gets involved the costs go up,” Freimuth added, “Some companies in the industry are dropping health care plans all together and giving their employees a pay-off, letting them fend for themselves in the new health care market place.”
Both feel increased health care costs will have to be passed along to their clients, which they fear may make American companies less competitive globally.
Has he shopped around for a better deal on his state exchange? Willing to bet most small businesses have not... yet.
Thank you for making my point for me again.
More than welcome :)
Here's another shot at it, my friend.
Some Nebraskans’ premiums to triple under ObamaCare
But, but, it's the AFFORDABLE Care Act and I can KEEP my plan if I like it.Quote:
Todd Blome's phone has been ringing off the hook this week with clients seeking tax advice after learning they'll get a "shocking increase" in their health insurance premiums when Obamacare's health insurance exchanges begin operating.
Letters have been landing in mailboxes all over Nebraska explaining the impact Obamacare will have on people who buy insurance coverage on their own, rather than through work.
Blome, a Lincoln accountant, understands: He got a letter, too.
Blue Cross Blue Shield Nebraska informed Blome his health care plan will terminate at year's end, and if he wants to move to a similar plan his new premium will go up 65 percent, costing him nearly $4,000 more per year.
He distinctly remembers President Obama looking into TV cameras and assuring Americans they would be able to keep their doctors, and policies.
His letter says otherwise.
"Stupid me, I took the president literally," Blome said.
I hope those dopey companies eventually realize they won't have any insureds after people actually listen to them and switch companies. They are cutting off their nose to spite their face.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Ah, so the evil insurance companies are really just dopey?
Its those companies you like jacking the prices up, knowing full well that every state has an exchange going. And another thing is they are part of the exchange. If not the parent company, then a wholly own subsidiary.
I know its because of Obama Care, or so the story goes. But it's a notable observation to consider large companies are not reporting the same rises in premiums, just individuals and small businesses.
Wonder why that is?
I can only conclude that in the left's view everyone who opposes Obamacare, all who complain about the fact their premiums are skyrocketing, who can't keep their plans as promised (except unions), who note ACA will limit our choices (including the NY Times), who care that it is the largest tax increase in history, hate that it violates their first amendment rights, are being forced into part time jobs and insurance companies themselves are all stupid. And we should be thankful for all you smart libs being there to take care of all us idiots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
And at last speech a breakthrough, man! You've got, you've really got it, and how long did it take to come to this glorious conclusion?
Now armed with this information you should be able to make inroads into the diabolical plan of the enemy, if you could just work out who the ernermey is
Dem Senator Joe Manchin has indicated that he would vote for a 1 year delay of implementation of the personal mandate. If a few more Dem Senators from 'Red States' can be turned then it's possible that a delay can be passed in the Senate . Logically ;given all the known glitches that will occur at this time ,and concluding that there are plenty more unknown glitches that could cripple the implementation ,a delay is a no brainer. And it would be the "fair" thing to do given that the corporate mandates were delayed for a year.
Word is that Bonehead is prepared to send the CR back to the Senate with the delay as a provision . He should do that immediately upon receiving the CR passed by the Senate ,with the defunding language stripped of the bill.
Why not a clean bill, and battle it out later? Because you guys are desperate and think you can use the full faith and credit of the US to leverage a last gasp chance to derail Obama Care.
How about an up or down vote on the Senate bill? Naw, you don't get the blood you want from that either. Hmmm, if only Obama caves to the TParty, after all what can happen in a year? Fix the glitches, he would be a fool to think your side will help with that.
You won't win unless you do the two things I have outlined. America will be pissed at the whole government for a shutdown, and you know it. Some will be blamed more than others.
I know this strategy looks good on paper, but it's a lousy idea, and Americans ain't stupid. Let the hostage go, fight another day.
What nonsense . Not passing a CR will have no effect on the US credit rating . At worse there will be a temporary gvt shut down until the emperor and Reid comes to their senses.Quote:
Why not a clean bill, and battle it out later? Because you guys are desperate and think you can use the full faith and credit of the US to leverage a last gasp chance to derail Obama Care.
But speaking about toying with the credit rating of the government ,the emperor's Treasury dept has been lying for months about the level of debt we are carrying . The US debt has been stuck at the same($16,699,396,000,000) number for over 4 months . Do you believe it ?
The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I, therefore, intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt.
The emperor 2006
"Now, this debt ceiling -- I just want to remind people in case you haven't been keeping up -- raising the debt ceiling, which has been done over a hundred times, does not increase our debt -
The emperor 2013
I guess it doesn't bother you at all that the emperor is willing to get on the horn and talk to the "moderate " President of Iran ,but has not done any negotiating with Capitol Hill at all over this so called impending fiscal crisis ? For that matter ,the Repubics were completely shut out of negotiations leading up to the Obamacare "vote" . The cr@p sandwich is all Democrat made .
Yeah I have more...Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
So instead of negotiating to get his polices like LBJ did ,the emperor's senior adviser Dan Pfeiffer called Repubics Terrorists, Kidnappers, and Arsonists . Others have used language like 'holding the country hostage' and 'strapping on suicide belts'. Yesterday ,like Tal ,the emperor tried the equate the consequences of not passing a CR with damaging America's credit rating... a blatant lie. These are the bully tactics of a street thug community organizer ,not a President.
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