That does indeed show your level of discourse LOL.
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That does indeed show your level of discourse LOL.
Tal, all employer based insurance is either paid for or subsidized by the employer. You cannot seriously expect the church to subsidize something that violates their beliefs, ESPECIALLY when there never was any contraception crisis to begin with. This whole thing started with a sham testimony by a college student and ended with a shell game "compromise." We're not stupid and we're not backing down from protecting our constitutional rights.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
So since the U.S. doesn't one can only conclude we aren't a civilized country?Quote:
guess that's why all the civilized countries have universal health care to keep the religions out of the health care process and NOW it makes perfect sense. Thanks Speech for making the case.
No.Quote:
So since the U.S. doesn't one can only conclude we aren't a civilized country?
False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
His statement can also be read as all civilized countries other than the US.Quote:
A false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy, fallacy of false choice, black-and/or-white thinking, or the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option.
False dilemma can arise intentionally, when fallacy is used in an attempt to force a choice (such as, in some contexts, the assertion that "if you are not with us, you are against us").
The US is indeed a civilized country... barely :D
Hello again, Steve:
I don't know.. If it was ME, and I was running one of those institutions geared towards helping people, and I was faced with making a choice between the lesser of two evils: (1) holding my nose and covering those things that I'm morally opposed to, OR (2) closing my doors, thereby DEPRIVING people in need of my services, not to mention my family and my creditors, I'd pick the one that does the LEAST damage.Quote:
If he supports the mandate then he supports religious institutions closing their doors to helping people.
You seem to think they'd close. I don't think they would.
Excon
I really don't think Tal needs your help.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
[QUOTE=excon;3360241]Hello again, Steve:
I don't know.. If it was ME, and I was running one of those institutions geared towards helping people, and I was faced with making a choice between the lesser of two evils: (1) holding my nose and covering those things that I'm morally opposed to, OR (2) closing my doors, thereby DEPRIVING people in need of my services, not to mention my family and my creditors, I'd pick the one that does the LEAST damage.
You seem to think they'd close. I don't think they would.
excon[/QUOTE
You can't seem to make up your mind if compromising one's principles is a good thing or a bad thing. So how long do you think that group of nuns can survive after paying the fines heaped on them?
I never knew the boy was so quick, did youQuote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
This whole debate is moot because Obama is working on an exemption you can live with. But I got to say your nuns are some slick business folks if the can leverage their help and get workers to convert to their way of thinking. I mean if they can build, lease, rent HOSPITALS, and missions, and pay nurses and doctors, they ain't that broke.
No body has been fined yet, and I seriously doubt any will ever be. We will see what the courts say about those for PROFIT true believers who try that though. Seems to be aimed at just the females so far and that bothers me.
But of course the nuns who have spoken out and said so have been blasted by the righties. And you may think we are so civilized here, but I think we could/should do much better.
You obviously don't know how these things work. The vast majority of churches and their ministries operate on a shoestring budget. They can't afford to pay thousands in fines and it's patently absurd to force a groups of nuns to furnish contraceptive coverage.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Funny how you aren't bothered by destroying the first amendment.Quote:
No body has been fined yet, and I seriously doubt any will ever be. We will see what the courts say about those for PROFIT true believers who try that though. Seems to be aimed at just the females so far and that bothers me.
Tell it to that hungry mom and her kids that would have been fed with that fine money.Quote:
But of course the nuns who have spoken out and said so have been blasted by the righties. And you may think we are so civilized here, but I think we could/should do much better.
So when will Obama end his war on women ?
White House War on Women Escalates | Washington Free Beacon
[QUOTE=tomder55;3360800]so when will Obama end his war on women ?
White House War on Women Escalates | Washington Free Beacon[/QUOTE
No, they LOVE women.
http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/Polit...0909_wblog.jpg
http://tx1.cdn.caijing.com.cn/2012-11-20/112296410.jpg
Nice try fellas, but woman spoke in the last election and you would do well to listen.
Nancy K. Kaufman: Women and the Vote in 2012
How women ruled the 2012 election and where the GOP went wrong - CNN.comQuote:
For those candidates looking to court women voters, focusing on the survival of programs that keep food on the table, provide medical care, ensure a fair and equitable workplace, and give women the deciding voice in their own reproductive health care choices is a good place to start. And to be heard by those candidates, we women must speak up, make our votes count, and ensure that whoever governs, from state capitals to Capitol Hill and the White House, is held accountable to us.
Easy to see which side women voters took. So keep on ignoring the facts right in front of your face.Quote:
"Women like all voters felt the economics were most important," Swers said. "Women tend to be more supportive of government spending (such as cutting things as Medicaid, and food stamps) than men are ... so they were less responsive to Romney in that way and more responsive to Obama's message on empathy and helping the middle class."
I know the results, but I also know that the people were shortchanged by the compliant media. Six years of campaigning for president and Obama still hasn't been vetted by the adoring media.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Are americans that dumb? They will do as they are told? How did the Bushs and Reagan and Ford and Nixon get into the White House?Quote:
I also know that the people were shortchanged by the compliant media. Six years of campaigning for president and Obama still hasn't been vetted by the adoring media.
That about not taking any personal responsibility - it always has to be someone else's fault.
Hello again, wingers:
Can we switch gears for a moment? I KNOW we're not going to convince you that you ARE at war with women, and you're NOT going to convince us that you aren't.
So, this is more about POLITICS than women. I want to know MORE about HOW the Republicans plan to change the dynamics, IF what Steve said is true - that women have been sold a MYTH. You DO know that, using the same tired arguments, you LOST the women's vote. Are you going to keep on doing the SAME thing and hope for a different result?
I'm just looking out for you.. I don't want you get ROUTED in 2014.
excon
You try shouting louder than the media, let me know how that works out for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Hello again, Steve:
Birtherism?? Is that all you got? You're going to get SMASHED in 2014.Quote:
Obama still hasn't been vetted by the adoring media.
Excon
Study Finds Obama Received "Unrelentingly Negative" Media Coverage
Study Finds Obama Received "Unrelentingly Negative" Media Coverage | Research | Media Matters for America
As if the guy coordinating with the White House has any credibility? LOL, you crack me up sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Geez, not that again. You know damn well I'm not a birther.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, Steve:
Then tell me what you meant by the media NOT vetting him. You think FOX News vetted him? They TOLD you about his pals, the terrorists... What MORE do you want? Do you believe the movie 2016 is VETTING him. What about the Sins of My Father? Do you believe THAT?
What do YOU know that we DON'T know?
excon
We've had all those discussion, the media hasn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Let me help you out. When someone who has insider access like Bob Woodward says that Obama is still a mystery to him... then don't you think that perhaps the press isn't doing it's job ?
Bob Woodward: ?Who is Barack Obama?? - Emily Schultheis - POLITICO.com
Hello again, tom:
I think that's Bob Woodward.. Bob Woodward ISN'T the press.
So, let's get down to it... The main stream media DIDN'T vet Obama, but FOX did... Ok, so what? He was VETTED. Do you think FOX has an audience SOOOO small that NOBODY else in the country KNEW he palled around with terrorists?? IF the liberal press didn't tell them, Sarah Palin surly did.
Is it just possible, that people didn't CARE? Is it possible that people DID know what FOX thought, and elected him ANYWAY? Do you REALLY think the electorate is BLIND??
Ok, never mind... I think you DO believe the country is under the spell of the liberal media, and only FOX watchers know what's going on..
Bwa, ha ha ha ha.
excon
Funny you should mention Palin, just compare her vetting in the media to Obama's. She got more scrutiny in a month than he's gotten in six years.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Explain how a reporter of Woodward's stature ;a man who has had insider access through the President's 1st term ;and has written a few books about his Presidency ,can still say the President is a mystery .
I think the press will spill the beans after he is out of office . Yes I think they intentionally have not covered in detail many aspects of the President before he was in office... and they still gloss over many of the issues of his Presidency.
How many days was Katrina in the news ? How many days has the press concentrated on the fiasco which is the Federal response to Sandy ? The President said he's cut the red tape .Well that didn't happen . FEMA was virtually MIA throughout this... and that's just one example.
Hello again, tom:
If he wasn't talking about his past, I.E. birtherism, then it's because he IS a mystery.Quote:
explain how a reporter of Woodward's stature ;a man who has had insider access through the President's 1st term ;and has written a few books about his Presidency ,can still say the President is a mystery .
What is it you DON'T know about him that worries you? Besides, I don't know what you MEAN by mystery... Are there gaps in his life story that need filling? Is THAT when he underwent terrorist training?? If there IS stuff, why weren't the crack reporters at FOX able to uncover it? You're not going to mention sealed college records, are you, because that's BIRTHERISM?
I'm sorry... All I detect from you is a heightened sense of paranoia.
Excon
She gave the media all the material they needed with every public appearance. Even Fox dumped her.Quote:
She got more scrutiny in a month than he's gotten in six years.
If she gave them all they needed there was no need for the “media colonoscopy” she endured.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Most of the time they just reported what she said and that was enough.
Stop pretending they didn't dig into her personal and professional life and that of her family relentlessly. Geez, give it up dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Ok.
Have a great day!
Lets just say the lame stream media did a lousy job. That means YOU guys did an even worse one since you didn't find the dirt either.
Lets face it, you had a lousy primary, a lousy message, a lousy candidate, so you got lousy results. Spin it any way you want but Anybody But Obama didn't work. Neither did We Love You Women.
Maybe you do love them in your own way, but they didn't fall for it. To be fair the new congress on our side has a bunch of new women even some gays, so maybe hollering loud and saying nothing may NOT be a credible strategy going forward.
I betcha.
Yeah I know, to your side a Republican woman isn't really a woman just a like a Republican black really isn't a black. At least we don't denigrate them that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
You don't have enough of either to make a difference at the voting booth.
Then why have Christian Republicans held me back since I was a kid? I could never do or have whatever because I was female.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Hello WG:
Shhhhh, you'll remind them that they've BEEN at war with women for a LONG, LONG time.Quote:
Then why have Christian Republicans held me back since I was a kid? I could never do or have whatever because I was female.
You saw what tom said about the Lilly Ledbetter law.. He called her Lilly Bedwetter... I suppose it's because she wanted to be paid the same as guys are, and had the TEMERITY to SPEAK up. Clearly, she does NOT know her place.
But, there's no war. Look over there at the commie Marxist...
Excon
No war on women huh, then why hasn't the house passed the violence against women act? Because it expand protection to all women (and men), illegal or gay and soveriegn Indian nations within our borders?
No Tal it just they are lazy
No because as usual the Dems added all types of bs to their Senate version of the bill . If it was only a violence against women bill like it was when it was passed over a decade ago ,there would be no issues. But the Dems added provisions that were different to the bill passed in the House . The reconciliation process was not complete before the 112 th Congress ended.
Tal just threw out another phony issue. I'm sure it will be reintroduced in this session .
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