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Originally Posted by smoothy

Far more are ideologs (many aren't radicals...just gullible) who believe only what they are told to believe, usually by people who have an agenda and are less than truthful .

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You just described Fox News and its followers!

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Maybe the intent wasn't bashing...but it did certainly come across that way.

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Your comments did too.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

The people who understand that sometimes it's easier to go on lunch, or on your break from work. The same people that know sometimes there ISN'T enough people in a residential area who need a YMCA--but PLENTY of people will stop on their way home from work.

I think you're forgetting that people WORK in this area--and many people (like me) won't go back out to work out, or get involved, or whatever, if we go home first. Once I'm home, I'm home--but stopping to work out on the way home (and psst--my YWCA is in a business district) is MORE than feasible, it's desirable. If my lunch were a little longer, I'd go on my lunch every day instead of on the way home.

It doesn't need to be in a residential area to be used. Just ask the members of the many churches ALREADY in the vicinity of Ground Zero.

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You know without having even visited those Churches... they are most certainly NOT all the same church... as in NOT all Catholic, not all the same demomination of protestant, and an FYI for those NOT protestant... there are BIG differences between the various Protestant denominations, IE Baptist, Methodist, Episcopal, etc...

Catholics all follow a common issued guidline for their Mass ( I know because Wife is catholic and I was married in her catholic Church and THAT required me getting permission from the Bishop as I wasn't catholic)... not protestant churches. They don't hold Mass they have services.. and that Pastor determines the topic, not the Archbishop.


Besides... how many of these churches you mention did not exist before 9/11.

We are not discussing the preexisting Mosque two blocks away from the proposed Mohammed Attah Memorial.

More Jefferson quotes --

Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. ~Thomas Jefferson

I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others. ~Thomas Jefferson

If there is one principle more deeply rooted in the mind of every American, it is that we should have nothing to do with conquest. ~Thomas Jefferson (Oooops.)

I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature. ~Thomas Jefferson

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. ~Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

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Originally Posted by smoothy

there are BIG differences between the various Protestant denominations, IE Baptist, Methodist, Episcopal, etc...

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The differences are minor. All believe in the Trinity, in Jesus Christ as Savior, heaven and hell, angels, good and evil, the Ten Commandments, God as Creator, Holy Spirit as Sanctifier, good works as evidence of faith. Differences are in rituals and practices. A Protestant could visit any Protestant church and feel comfortable with doctrine.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You just described Fox News and its followers!

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Really.. ever notice that the Drive by media... (ALL the lefty Media) ALL use the same wording and talking points issued by the DNC, with the complexity, and sheer number of words in the english language its Impossible that all simutaneously pick the same phrases and topics day after day, week after week, month after month.

THe LEFT DEFINES the term Puppet.

Really.. are you aware of how badly CBS, ABC, NPR, NBC and CNN twist the stories?

I bet you believe what they report is exactly what happened all the time?

How many news stories have you seen first hand without ANY input of any news service to compare what you see on TV to what really happened? I have... a LOT. And a person how thinks the New York Times doesn't spin stories so hard it affects the orbit of the earth is an idiot.

Do you have any Clue how skewed CNN reporting is... Do you Believe Dan Rather didn't fabricate the so called evidence in his fabricated story about Bush he got fired by CBS over only AFTER it was made public through other sources?

I never get surprised by the level of gullibility of the left... actually I am surprised so few of them ever catch on to how they are played for suckers by the media and the DNC. They never question what they are told by any of them.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Really..are you aware of how badly CBS, ABC and CNN twist the stories

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Does Fox twist stories?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

The differences are minor. All believe in the Trinity, in Jesus Christ as Savior, heaven and hell, angels, good and evil, the Ten Commandments, God as Creator, Holy Spirit as Sanctifier, good works as evidence of faith. Differences are in rituals and practices. A Protestant could visit any Protestant church and feel comfortable with doctrine.

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I partially disagree with that speaking as a Protestant, while you are correct in the basics that are actually shared with Catholics as well, except the concept of Saints, being we are all christians... There are VAST differences in rituals and practices between the Mennonites and say the Lutherines and Baptists. The Amish for example are Protestants. I for one was never comfortible in either an Episcopal or a Baptist church... as I was raised a Methodist for example. I'll accept SOME people might not feel that way however.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Does Fox twist stories?

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not nearly as much as all the rest do, and certainly not as much as the left claims... there isn't a news service anyplace in the world that doesn't put their spin on a story... the question is how much spin.

That is based on events I saw numerous times over the years first hand in the course of my work... and later saw reported including the first Gulf War. I can't go into details so please don't ask.

Many dream up facts and present them as proof, Dan Rather got thrown under the bus when CBS got caught doing it, and he kept arguing his Bush Bashing story was factual when he KNEW it was fabricated lies... and CBS was caught doing what they have done a long time, He wasn't alone doing it... but he took all the blame.

And You know the stories about Reporters fabricating page one stories in the New York Times and the Washington post...

Easy to Google them up.

Don't get me started on the fiction the BBC likes to toss around these days...

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Six that I could find.

Plus a Baptist? church. Not sure of the denomination on the last one I found.

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Where did you get 6 from? All I had seen was 2 at most and the other buildings that are associated with the church like a rectory etc.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

I partially disagree with that speaking as a Protestant, while you are correct in the basics that are actually shared with Catholics as well, except the concept of Saints, being we are all christians....There are VAST differences in rituals and practices between the Memonites and say the Lutherines and Baptists. I for one was never comfortible in either an Episcopal or a Baptist church...as I was raised a Methodist for example. I'll accept SOME people might not feel that way however.

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Smoothy, as you can find vast differences between Christian sects, do you not find that there are vast differences between the sects of Islam?
Wouldn't you not want people of your sect or entire religion to be collectively associated with wrongdoings of another just because it was classified under the same religion? You see the ground zero mosque as a symbol of Muslim terrorist victory when you should know that the people who would be part of the mosque most likely don't even associate and have vast differences from the fundamentalist Muslims who attacked the trade center.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

I partially disagree with that speaking as a Protestant, while you are correct in the basics that are actually shared with Catholics as well, except the concept of Saints

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There are more differences than just saints. Catholics revere Mary in ways Protestants don't, i.e. the rosary; Catholics believe in Purgatory, and Protestants don't; Catholics have the Pope, and Protestants don't have a central ecclesiastical figure; Catholics observe private confession with a priest giving absolution; the Catholic Church supports monasteries and convents.

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Originally Posted by XOXOlove

Smoothy, as you can find vast differences between Christian sects, do you not find that there are vast differences between the sects of Islam?
Wouldn't you not want people of your sect or entire religion to be collectively associated with wrongdoings of another just because it was classified under the same religion? You see the ground zero mosque as a symbol of Muslim terrorist victory when you should know that the people who would be part of the mosque most likely don't even associate and have vast differences from the fundamentalist Muslims who attacked the trade center.

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There are three sects in Islam... and yeah, I believe there are big differences between them, no I don't know what they are precisely, but I know they exist.

Many of these fundementalists did not attend radical Mosqes, they attended main stream mosques where nobody said anything because they are taught its wrong to side against a fellow Muslim at any cost. Any other religion I know of does not do that. Individuals yes... not leaders and not as a doctrine.

1,300 years of Islamic History prove that Mosque IS intended to be and will be a victory symbol and honor the Terrorists.

There is an old and very true saying by philosopher George Santayana: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Besides when was the last Jew, Christian, Budist... or what have you strap on a bomb to blow ip innocent people, or brainwash their children to do it. I'm referring mainly to Hamas there, but also to whack jobs in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Arriving late to this thread, I haven't read every post, so may duplicate someone's.

Whether a Mosque next to Ground Zero is good or bad is likely a moot question.

Bill O'Reilly and at least one union shop steward have said the same thing, that no union workers will touch the job.

That is probably likely.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

There are more differences than just saints. Catholics revere Mary in ways Protestants don't, i.e., the rosary; Catholics believe in Purgatory, and Protestants don't; Catholics have the Pope, and Protestants don't have a central ecclesiastical figure; Catholics observe private confession with a priest giving absolution; the Catholic Church supports monasteries and convents.

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Protestants actually do have a central Figure... The Archbishop of Canterbery, though he really doesn't function in the same manner as the Pope does in the Catholic Chruch, Certain denominations have a communion at easter others don't, while Catholics do it weekly, assuming they have been to confession..

I have a running joke with my wife... my wife would say I need ot go to confession when I did something bad...

I tell her no priest can let you off the hook for what you do... you answer to the man for everything you did before you get in the pearly gates.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

More Jefferson quotes --

Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. ~Thomas Jefferson

I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others. ~Thomas Jefferson

If there is one principle more deeply rooted in the mind of every American, it is that we should have nothing to do with conquest. ~Thomas Jefferson (Oooops.)

I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature. ~Thomas Jefferson



Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. ~Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

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Since we are quoting Jefferson.

Ref:

What Thomas Jefferson learned from the Muslim book of jihad

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Originally Posted by smoothy

There are three sects in Islam...and yeah, I believe there are big differences between them, no I don't know what they are precisely, but I know they exist.

Many of these fundementalists did not attend radical Mosqes, they attended main stream mosques where nobody said anything because they are taught its wrong to side against a fellow Muslim at any cost. Any other religion I know of does not do that. Individuals yes...not leaders and not as a doctrine.

1,300 years of Islamic History prove that Mosque IS intended to be and will be a victory symbol and honor the Terrorists.

There is an old and very true saying by philosopher George Santayana: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Besides when was the last Jew, Christian, Budist....or what have you strap on a bomb to blow ip innocent people, or brainwash their children to do it. I'm reffering mainly to Hamas there, but also to whack jobs in Afghanistan and Iraq.

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There aren't only 3 sects in Islam; there are 72- which is a lot. There are two main braches: Sunni and Shiite.
No one can assume that just because some terrorists came from non-radical mosques means that all mosques right here in our country contain terrorists and have bad intensions for their own country or home. Petaining to one of the last times a non-muslim blew up innocent people was in WWII when Americans blew up innocent civilians in Hiroshima. Of course it was an act of revenge and a time of war, but is it civil and did it make our country the "bigger nation?" No one said it was a terrorist attack, but it can still be classified as one. You make it seem is if all terrorists are muslims when in fact, it is not true. Also, not ALL Mosques are intended to be marked as places of victory as you say.
As for your quote, it is very true in any way you look at it. Some people don't really remember or care about anytime a group has been discriminated against and the consequenes of it.

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Originally Posted by XOXOlove

There aren't only 3 sects in Islam; there are 72- which is a lot. There are two main braches: Sunni and Shiite.
No one can asume that just because some terrorists came from non-radical mosques means that all mosques right here in our country contain terrorists and have bad intensions for their own country or home. Petaining to one of the last times a non-muslim blew up innocent people was in WWII when Americans blew up innocent civilians in Hiroshima. Of course it was an act of revenge and a time of war, but is it civil and did it make our country the "bigger nation?" No one said it was a terrorist attack, but it can still be classified as one. You make it seem is if all terrorists are muslims when in fact, it is not true. Also, not ALL Mosques are intended to be marked as places of victory as you say.
As for your quote, it is very true in any way you look at it. Some people don't really remember or care about anytime a group has been discriminated against and the consequenes of it.

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Dropping the bomb wasn't for revenge not a terrorist attatck. At the time that happened the countries were at war. The men were in uniform. And the Japanese had declared war on the U.S. How do you equate that to a terrorist attatck ?

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Originally Posted by XOXOlove

There aren't only 3 sects in Islam; there are 72- which is a lot. There are two main braches: Sunni and Shiite.
No one can asume that just because some terrorists came from non-radical mosques means that all mosques right here in our country contain terrorists and have bad intensions for their own country or home. Petaining to one of the last times a non-muslim blew up innocent people was in WWII when Americans blew up innocent civilians in Hiroshima. Of course it was an act of revenge and a time of war, but is it civil and did it make our country the "bigger nation?" No one said it was a terrorist attack, but it can still be classified as one. You make it seem is if all terrorists are muslims when in fact, it is not true. Also, not ALL Mosques are intended to be marked as places of victory as you say.
As for your quote, it is very true in any way you look at it. Some people don't really remember or care about anytime a group has been discriminated against and the consequenes of it.

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Hiroshima was a legitimate military target... and targeting cities at that time was an accepted and standard wartime practice. THe Japanese did it all over Asia... the Germans did it... the Russians did it... the USA had every right and in fact was correct in drioppuing not one but both Bombs on Japan.

Like I said... the History of Islam has example after example for 1,300 yearsa of building mosques as a victory memorial. THey even have a name for the Practice but I can't remember what it is.

I've seen NOTHING that indicates Islamic leaders have shifted their motivations... in fact they have demonstrated a 7th century mindset time and time again... maybe not all members may think that ( and that IS entirely possible)... but it's the leaders most blindly follow in whatever they are told to do.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Dropping the bomb wasnt for revenge not a terrorist attatck. At the time that happened the countries were at war. The men were in uniform. And the Japanese had declared war on the U.S. How do you equate that to a terrorist attatck ?

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I see it equivalent to a terriost attack because of the fact that it targeted civilians, not mainly othe Japanese soldiers. If Iraqis came here in uniform and bombed us, it would most likely be considered a terrorist attack.