So you think it was okay to pay premiums for years and get kicked out when you get sick?
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So you think it was okay to pay premiums for years and get kicked out when you get sick?
Who does that happen to? And not some unsubstantiated story that gets passed down through the office grapevine.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
https://www.healthcare.gov/health-in...e-marketplace/
Interesting info...
Except its by the same people that lied about its true cost for years. The Obama administration.Quote:
Originally Posted by aliseaodo
Yes it is interesting sort of dispels some of the hype but you should ask yourselves why you would pay twice as much as I do for health coverage, whose getting the benefit of that? And why if you pay 2.5% of your income you don't get a benefit for thatQuote:
Originally Posted by aliseaodo
I pay nothing. Nothing to add my spouse (when I had one), nothing to add my dependent. I have no co-pay. I have medical, dental, orthopedic, prescription, vision, chiropractic, and acupuncture. My deductible is $250 per person and tops out at $500. If my employer decides not to provide this insurance, it will cost me thousands of dollars. Using Excon's calculator ( I also live in the same state) I will pay $429/month without the subsidy, and $210/mo with the subsidy - for silver coverage, and I don't think that is including anything besides medical...
I think you miss the point, your coverage is provided as a fringe benefit so you get it as part of a salary package how ever defined and therefore you do pay in the form of a lower salary or cash not received. It seems the costs vary greatly from state to state and you have to ask why. When you quote these costs you didn't say whether you have other family members covered but assuming you don't I pay $130 a month for coverage with similar benefits, so ask yourself who gets the benefit of the differenceQuote:
Originally Posted by aliseaodo
You have to remember age play a factor in insurance costs as well.
We've had a PPO, meaning we can go to any doctor or specialist that accepts the insurance without a referral (that's almost any we have tried)... had a $15 copay per visit... and a zero deductible... for about $450 a month and I am just over 50 and she is just under it. No way is Obamacare going to improve on that. And that's for a family... not per person. Or even just two.
Well, I'm not salary, I'm hourly.Quote:
I think you miss the point, your coverage is provided as a fringe benefit so you get it as part of a salary package how ever defined and therefore you do pay in the form of a lower salary or cash not received. It seems the costs vary greatly from state to state and you have to ask why. When you quote these costs you didn't say whether you have other family members covered but assuming you don't I pay $130 a month for coverage with similar benefits, so ask yourself who gets the benefit of the difference
Also - as I said, there is no extra cost to add a dependent, be it one child or four, and no cost to add a spouse (my son is covered, and my ex-husband was covered while we were married). There is NO COST to me whatsoever. You can refer to it as 'fringe benefits' if you want, I am fully aware of what a fringe benefit package entails (I don't have one) it makes no difference. My point is - it's going to cost some people, like myself, money. Thousands of dollars to pay for something inferior to what you may already have.
But weren't you told 'if you like your plan you can keep it ' ? I haven't me a person yet who can tell me that is true when the rubber meets the road. At a minimum it will cost the lucky ones a lot more money in contributions to existing plans (so far my case ) . The unlucky ones?. well ask IBM retirees ; ask Home Depot and Walgreens ,and Trader Joe's employees .Quote:
Originally Posted by aliseaodo
Forty percent of U.S. companies to alter health care plans, drop coverage, due to ObamacareQuote:
As the official start date for Obamacare draws ever closer, there is more evidence that the law simply won't perform as advertised and, in fact, will cause even greater harm to American society than without the "healthcare reform" it was supposedly crafted to deliver.
Particularly hard hit will be businesses that are going to be required to provide certain levels of health insurance coverage to their employees. The result is going to be a) higher costs to the businesses' customers; and b) a net loss in employment, especially full-time employment.
A new employer survey has found that a plurality of mid-sized and large businesses - 40 percent of 420 companies surveyed - said they are planning changes to the designs of their insurance plans next year and other changes to reduce employee related costs as a new excise tax imposed by Obamacare approaches with pricier plans.
Also, according to Towers Watson, the firm conducting the survey, 60 percent of companies look at private health insurance exchanges as one way of controlling their healthcare and administrative costs by dumping their employees into the state-run health insurance pools called for under the law
Deloitte estimates that 10% of the companies in the country will drop their employee coverage and opt for their employees to enrole in these new exchanges (many of which are not even close to being ready to implement ) .
But that was the plan all along . The Dems knew that this system would collapse the private health insurance industry . They wanted it to happen that way so they could get around to their real goal... full central state run and control of health care .
Not quite. I work for a union shop, I am a non-bargaining member, as is every employee who is not an electrician ( project managers, estimators, office managers (moi), etc.. ) we have no say in union matters, don't pay dues, but do get the benefits. If my employer decides to no longer offer the benefits to us, we lose it. Done and done.Quote:
but weren't you told 'if you like your plan you can keep it
And you are saying your union brothers won't defend you, shame! But surely if it is a union shop the other ranks can have a union tooQuote:
Originally Posted by aliseaodo
Hmm... in what world would a bargaining member 'defend' a non-bargaining member?! That makes no sense. Anyhow - my point stands. If my employer decides to cut our coverage, it will cost us money. It does not benefit us in any way, it is quite the contrary. (btw - in regards to 'the other ranks can have a union too' - that's not how it works.)Quote:
and you are saying your union brothers won't defend you, shame! But surely if it is a union shop the other ranks can have a union too
How can you be a non-bargaining member? You mean you are just there to make up the numbers. What you are saying is your union brothers forged an agreement where non members are included in the benefits. You don't understand unions, any erosion of benefits is an attack on the union's rights and benefits and they will defend these because they know if you are excluded they are nextQuote:
Originally Posted by aliseaodo
Umm have you never heard of this? I didn't make it up. I work for an electrical contracting company that is in the union with IBEW(International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers)but I am not a 'laborer' (in this case an electrician) I work in the office. The owners signed an agreement with the union that allows the same health benefits the union (electricians) members get for the non-bargaining (non-electricians)employees.Quote:
How can you be a non-bargaining member
Make up the numbers? What numbers - explain this.Quote:
you mean you are just there to make up the numbers
Huh - I don't? Enlighten me, please.Quote:
You don't understand unions,
Again - I am a non-bargaining member (you should really look that up) Sure - any erosion on the unions benefits would be seen as an attack. Again, (and again) I am a non-bargaining member, what happens to the office employees health benefits have no sway whatsoever on the union members - at all. You suggesting so makes me think that you don't understand unions.Quote:
any erosion of benefits is an attack on the union's rights and benefits and they will defend these because they know if you are excluded they are next
Anyhow, this thread is being side-barred - my point, again, is that Obamacare will cost a lot of people a lot of money. A lot.
Let me enlighten you if I can?Quote:
Originally Posted by aliseaodo
Firstly; as an office worker I was a member of a union for many years, I didn't have to be but like you I enjoyed the flow on from what the unions negotiated, a somewhat similar situation to yourself. As a member of middle management I felt I should show my solidarity with those I worked with, I was both card carrying and paid up. Notice that word solidarity, it is the key to unions.
Secondly; I was raised in the home of a staunch member of a union, my father fought against communist control of his union. the Miners Federation. So I understood the nature of unions from an early age. Not many shed blood for what they believe but he did. This is also in the nature of unions
I fail to understand that you say your company is in the union, I hope you mean they have a contract with the union. Now I also understand that life in our two nations is different but one in all in is a universal union principle
Solidarity is key, for members. I carry no card, I pay no dues. I WORK for a union shop. I am not IN the union.Quote:
I was both card carrying and paid up. Notice that word solidarity, it is the key to unions.
Yes - that is what I mean. I work for a company that has an agreement with PSEW IBEW (Puget Sound Electrical Workers International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) Local 46.Quote:
I fail to understand that you say your company is in the union, I hope you mean they have a contract with the union.
The company I work for employs union electricians. They do the labor. The office staff of course, are not electricians, therefore we do not belong to the electricians union. We are lucky enough that the owners of the company wanted to provide for us the same benefits that are given to the electricians, they signed an agreement with the union that would allow us such. If at any time, the owners want to 'cancel' this agreement, it makes no difference to the actual union members at all.
Their medical coverage (included in their fringe benefit package - which is actually around $17.48/ HR) is unphased and unchanged. I don't know how this became a union lecture - I was trying to say that Obamacare is not good for a lot of people. I am very happy where I am coverage wise - and am worried sick (no pun intended) that my employer will decide to drop it, and I will find myself with just one more expense for something half as good. Boo and boo.
You know as well as I do that the unions are DESPERATELY petitioning Congress to change the provisions of Obamacare that they are getting burned over .Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
You are justified in being concerned. Some companies have calculated the added expenses of carrying their employees in a company sponsored plan. But I suspect many are going to be hit square between the eyes when are confronted with these escalating costs . Many will make the raw calculation that the exchanges are a real alternative.Quote:
Originally Posted by aliseaodo
Hello again,Companies like Trader Joe's supplement their employees purchase of health care on the exchanges. It results in LOWER costs for the company, and GOOD coverage at NO additional cost for their employees.Quote:
Many will make the raw calculation that the exchanges are a real alternative.
I think that's the way it's supposed to happen.
Excon
Unions do what Unions do particularly when the government is sypathetic to their views. This what happens when you allow industry lobbies to write legislation I wonder did the forerunner of the NRA write the second amendmentQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Yes... the people demanded the right to arm. They told the people writing the Constitution that if they tried to take their arms ,to meet them in Concord.Quote:
did the forerunner of the NRA write the second amendment
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliseaodo
Are you positive on this? Employer paid healthcare is a benefit as well as paid holidays and such. It should be spelled out in your contract how much the contribution is.
Are you sure there are no payroll deductions for part of a health care premium? If not then having to pay something would surely be an added expense, and I know many unions, and non union shop that have increases in their contributions for employer based health insurance.
I am a union guy, and many union shops have contracting out language in their contracts that cover private employees of the company. You sound like an employee of the company that works at the companies discretion, as needed. I don't know if there are enough of you that want a union, but you do have the right to form one or join one, dues and benefits to boot. However if your own contract does indeed cover the total cost of insurance in lieu of pay, then the company can compel you to pay a part of that cost at anytime, Obama Care, or NOT.
However while the right uses the dissatisfaction of unions to bolster the claim that they are against Obama Care, what he fails to acknowledge is the unions in question are still negotiating with the government to iron out a few details that are sticking points and actually are a narrow portion of the total union membership. Much like the exemption for religious organizations.
Many will find out the insurance they have is not what they thought, or the costs that are shifted to you from companies are higher than they were. But the costs for insurance has been going up for companies for a long time, and many can no longer absorb those costs or must shift a higher burden to the employees. Union, or non union. Been there, done that, and that was years ago, well before Obama Care.
I don't know what state you are in, but that has more impact on your costs than the company you work for. It's the state that regulates insurance companies, and some will implement the rules and regulations differently, and frankly, cost will rise until the standards are more uniform between ALL the states.
Yeah free is better than paying a dollar, so you better find out what you actually have before you decide to like it. Trust me companies have used many network restrictions to mitigate those costs to them for decades. Cost shifting is old as dirt.
Read your contract and what your health care calls for under that contract, then you will actually know if you are getting a great deal, or bamboozled by things you don't know. I suspect your deductibles for service are high as hell just from what you wrote. And I bet you get no bills as to what the actual costs for service is.
Blow your mind if you found out that through your deductible you were paying half the bill out of pocket wouldn't it? Find out, and then make a decision whether you like what you have, OR NOT.
Quote:
(I don't know what state you are in
(I'm in the state of WA - work 40 hrs a week. I guess technically every employed person is working at the owners discretion, but for the last 7 years his discretion has been to have me come in at 7:45 to 4:30 every single day ;) )Quote:
You sound like an employee of the company that works at the companies discretion, as needed
When I was offered this job I couldn't believe it. I thought the insurance (the main reason I took this job) was too good to be true but I found that it was good, and it was true! On my offer letter, it reads: Healthcare - 100% paid by (company), same plan that electricians have. (Those are the exact words).
My employer pays $500.00 per month,(that's a flat fee, it doesn't matter how many dependents I have or if I'm married or not) per office employee (there are five of us, 3 project managers/estimators, the owner, and myself) to the union to cover our insurance. My deductible is $250 per person topping out at $500.
One of my tasks is to run the reports and issue the payments for the monthly benefits to the union. I know exactly how much is paid out by my company. Another of my tasks is payroll. The only deductions I have on my pay is medicare, fed tax, social security, and state industrial (L&I). That's it. Pretty dang lucky.
As I said earlier, you can call my coverage 'fringe benefits' if you want, it was not presented in my offer letter as such, but it doesn't change what I'm saying, (I suppose when I think of that term I associate it with what the electricians have as a fringe benefit package - pensions, annuities, healthcare, apprentice training, benefit funds, etc.) if the coverage is dropped insurance will become an extra expense for me. That's the truth! I know what I already have, and me likes it.
I suspect the union is picking up a good percentage of the cost of your plan. Your change may not come immediately.. but change is coming and it will result in you having to shell out more $$$$$$$$$$$$$
'Cadillac' Health Plans Taxed By Obamacare - Business Insider
Quote:
Under Obamacare, the government won't start taxing employers who offer so-called “Cadillac” health benefits to their workers for another five years, but companies are already starting to cut back on such plans.
“Employers can't wait until 2018 and make one huge change to their plans,” says Tracy Watts, a senior partner with Mercer. “They're already starting making changes now, so that in 2018 it won't be as hard for employees.”
Under the Affordable Care Act, companies will have to pay an excise tax on plans that cost more than $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for a family. The employer will have to pay a 40 percent tax on the cost each plan above those levels. (There will be higher thresholds for retiree health plans and for high-risk professions, though the details of those have yet to be announced.)
Many people would be surprised to learn that their current plan would be considered a “Cadillac” plan under Obamacare rules.
“Most of us pay high premiums, and don't feel like we have a high-cost policy,” says Cynthia Weidner, vice president of health and welfare and consulting at HighRoads. “Everyone thinks, 'I don't have a Cadillac plan, my coverage stinks.'”
Actually, even the average health plan costs more than the Cadillac thresholds mandated by Obamacare - about $10,522 per employee, according to the Society for Human Resource Management. (The law includes premiums paid by both the employer and the employee.) At that price, employers would pay a 40 percent tax on the $322 difference—about $130. For a company with 10,000 employees, that equates to a $1,300,000 tax bill.
However, it's not just large companies that are worrying about the excise tax. “It's an issue for every single employer, particularly for state and local governments,” says J.D. Piro, senior vice president of Aon Hewitt's health and benefits legal team. “Governments tend to offer more expensive health benefits than private businesses, and workers often accept lower wages in exchange for those benefits.” (For this reason, unions strongly objected to this provision in the law before it was passed.)
Making it more difficult for employers, some of the minimum requirements of health plans under Obamacare are driving up the cost of plans, just as employers are looking for ways to push costs down. All plans, for example, must now fully cover all preventative care treatments, maternity care, and emergency care.
A Mercer study conducted last year found that 42 percent of employers said that if they made no changes to the plan, they'd be hit by the excise tax in 2018. Mercer projects that it will hit 55 percent of employers by 2022. The survey found that 59 percent of employers would take steps to lower the cost of their plan, with 26 percent saying they'll do whatever is necessary to lower costs below the threshold amount.
"yes .... the people demanded the right to arm. They told the people writing the Constitution that if they tried to take their arms ,to meet them in Concord."
I doubt that the citizens had to demand much from the writers of the constitution. John Adams left Abigail at home for in some cases years at a time. They knew how to look out for and fend for themselves.
I don't understand what plan the average Joe in America has for defending himself and his family which I asked for in another topic but the founders had a plan and it definitely involved firearms.
And I'm still wondering what there is to defend against (for many families). We have lived in a pleasant upper-middle-class suburb of Chicago since 1972 and have enough arms and ammo in our basement to wipe out the gangs in Chicago, but have never had a break-in or personal threat of any sort ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by smearcase
For starters... the Obamazombies if the Messiah declares himself president for life... and suspends the constitution.
But if that never happens... the mere fact there are enough people armed and ready to fight back... means the less likely someone will try a repeat of what happened in Germany in the 30's.
If its never needed in our lifetimes... so much the better.
Better to have it and not need it... then need it and not have it.
Re Abigail... Abby made the bullets !
Abigail AdamsQuote:
When the British fired on Boston's harbor and left the continental army with nothing to defend themselves with, Abigail could see it from the window of her house. She could feel the vibrations from the cannons as she held her children close and hoped that what she told them was true—it would all be fine in the end.
Soon after the devastating event, a few officials from the army finally received what they had been requesting for so long: weapons. Unfortunately, although they received muskets, they were dismayed to discover they did not come with bullets or gun powder; they were still defenseless.
Abigail Adams came to the rescue. She went home immediately, gathered all the silver and steel in the house, melted it down, and, with the help of her children, made bullets for the army. After seeing the bravery of this young mother the army was heartened for the first time in a long while. This beautiful act of loyalty gave inspiration to some of the authorities in the army. They heroically took up arms, went to one of the British bases, and stole gun powder and three large cannons.
They can't agree on where to go for lunch, so why do you think they would be able to coordinate enough to fight the government?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Behind every blade of grass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Trust me... they can get mighty coordinated against a common foe it the need ever came up...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
And a non centralized foe as numerous as this one would be formitable...
You can't cut the head off to neutralize a force that has no head to begin with.
And unlike Banana Republics and places like North Korea... you can expect most of the army to have a problem with firing on its own citizens
Your lucky to have a business savvy boss. I have a family member with her own business who is expanding her services, and upgraded her employee health insurance plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by aliseaodo
Quote:
Just curious if you have network restrictions on your coverage, or is that your complete choice?
Nazi take over? Armed resistance to the government? Man are you out there. Its less messy to vote every two years.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Listen to your own people that talk about a third term for the Messiah... how do you think that can ever happen? And what would be the result of even trying?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Putting up with two elections no matter how fraudulent they were is one thing... putting up with that stunt would be another.
Incidentally... the Germans didn't see that coming before it happened either...
Your making that crap up. A delusion from the extremist fringe on the right.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Sour grapes from the LOSERS. Even republicans are beginning to realize both elections were fair and decisive, except you right wing extremists who think that the will of the people can't be against them.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
We see YOU wingnuts coming though, and ain't going for it. You probably love Ted Cruz too! That's sad. I feel for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Are you asking me? Not sure I understand your question... do you mean restrictions on who I can go to, restrictions with needing referrals? That sort of thing?Quote:
Quote:
Just curious if you have network restrictions on your coverage, or is that your complete choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Not sour grapes. Facts, it was proven in many precincts where its statistically impossible for the Republican candidate to get ZERO votes... and legally impossible to have more votes cast than you have legal age adults living in the precinct much less actually registered to vote. Not to mention the cases in Philly where there was videotape proof of lefties threatening and intimidating people at the polls... that the Obama thugs refused to even prosecute...
But then... the lefties have absolutely no problem breaking any and every law on the books and even the constitution to opress the American public... despite their not having any mandate or even the majority popular opinion behind them.
THe left has lied so much about everything... they have convinced themselves that their lies are truth.. when there is absolutely zero proof to back them up.
And they whine and cry every time someone calls them out...
Huh? I am in the swirl of things and read a lot and watch MSNBC and talk to people and have never heard that.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
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